Kids And Dogs

[Greytmate]

My worry is that ANY dog could snap if someone touches them unexpectedly. We did welcome the interaction, both kids and parent patted both dogs and all was fine, i am not a sourpuss, but it annoys me when people approach my dogs without asking.

If you are walking a dog in a park you would reasonably expect a dog to be able to be touched by people without snapping.

If that isn't the case, the dog should be muzzled.

It isn't good if people touch the dogs without asking, but that is what kids often do when they see dogs, and dogs really need to be able to accept that in public.

If the dog is obviously scared, don't take it to any area where there are kids in public. You want to decrease the dog's fear and you cannot do that unless you have complete control of the kids and the situation. A dog trainer working on private property might be the best answer.

[mita]

The unfortunate fact is that people don't know better.... They don't read doggy body language and they don't think a cute fluffy puppy would ever bite.

I agree.

I've just read in the latest newsletter from AWL Qld that they've put together a Pet Sense Program designed to teach children the facts about dog behaviour & how there are things that dogs don't like being done to them, by children. They say:

...children need to be taught from an early age to recognise 'safe' and 'unsafe' body language in their own & other people's dogs.

The AWL wants parents, dog owners & children to use the information from this Pet Sense Kit. The learning materials, posters, activity sheets & charts can be downloaded free from the AWL Qld website.

http;//www.awlqld.com.au/PetSense-Program.html

The AWL advises parents to print out the rules & guidelines & pin them on the fridge, to keep reminding children about them.

Maybe it'd be a good idea for dog owners to keep a sheet or two with them....so when strange children & parents rush up and do the wrong thing....take the opportunity to give them some info on how to do the right thing.

For people who can't download the material, they can order a Pet Sense Resource Kit by phoning AWL Qld.

Also AWL education staff will be using the material with school groups.

Edited June 28, 2010 by mita

[Dame Aussie]

My worry is that ANY dog could snap if someone touches them unexpectedly. We did welcome the interaction, both kids and parent patted both dogs and all was fine, i am not a sourpuss, but it annoys me when people approach my dogs without asking.

If you are walking a dog in a park you would reasonably expect a dog to be able to be touched by people without snapping.

If that isn't the case, the dog should be muzzled.

It isn't good if people touch the dogs without asking, but that is what kids often do when they see dogs, and dogs really need to be able to accept that in public.

If the dog is obviously scared, don't take it to any area where there are kids in public. You want to decrease the dog's fear and you cannot do that unless you have complete control of the kids and the situation. A dog trainer working on private property might be the best answer.

I see what you're saying but neither of my dogs are snappy, I was more talking about other dogs. I don't see why walking in public means that people can come over and touch my dogs without asking?? I have dogs, I walk them, most places are public? I'm not going to hide away because some people can't teach their kids manners.

As I said, we have interactions all the time, lots of people want to pat our dogs and that is fine, I just think they should ask first.

[joelle]

However, there is a playground at the top of my street and I approach it with all antennae up ready to take charge. I have been known to put my hand up like a policeman and yell, "Stop!" Too bad if I look and sound ridiculous. My first concern is my dogs and I won't have them crowded by noisily excited children.

Vi, just be firm. If you are approaching children watch for the first sign that they are going to run or come quickly towards you and YELL at them to stop and tell them they are frightening your dog. If you are having to address Emmy's fear and the children are already upon you, she is going to have ever worsening problems and the time may come when she is an adult and bigger that she snaps through fear.

Tell the children that if they want to pat her, they have to be quiet, gentle, not crowd around, they have to crouch down, not bend over her, etc etc.

You have to address your concerns and reactions too; you won't get tense if you feel you are in charge and can control the situation.

I agree with this, I dont have a problem as my dogs live with kids so are very relaxed around kids. My trainer tells my group that if you want your dog to be a sociable member of the community you need to do the hard work with the dog. Borrow some kids for a training session or even get the kids who know how to behave to 'not behave', all the while reassuring and rewarding the dog for not reacting. If she isnt at this stage yet, I would be seeking one on one behavioural and muzzling the dog in public. If she bites someone, you can be sure the kids wont be getting the blame

ETA I hope this doent come across as me condoning kids running up to strange dogs, I am not at all, I just know that we are never going to stop EVERY kid so therefore we have to prepare our dogs.

Edited June 28, 2010 by joelle

[Skitch]

I cant believe some parents allow their children to get away with such poor behavior.. ! I've had this happen a few times with my old dog who isn't even that cute (she is to me though!) and definitely doesn't look like the most approachable dog in the world. Luckily for the kids she is generally good natured.. really scares me to think what could have happened if she wasn't.

We have an Italian greyhound pup and he attracts kids like moths to the flame! I wouldn't mind AT ALL if the children approached me and asked if they could pat him (which has happened quite a few times, dont get me wrong.. not all kids are bad) but it's when they come running out of nowhere and scare the beejezus out of him so that he ducks sideways and tries to hide behind me that I get a little cranky.. I always worry it will make him not like kids. For this reason we only walk in the evening and steer well clear of parks, playgrounds, etc!

I'm wondering if it's perhaps some kind of generational thing.. I'm only 21 but when I was little my friends and I always knew not to approach strange dogs and to ask the owner if we wanted to pat their dog... my parents would have choked me if they saw me running up to a dog I dont know and patting it without asking!

[Greytmate]

I see what you're saying but neither of my dogs are snappy, I was more talking about other dogs. I don't see why walking in public means that people can come over and touch my dogs without asking?? I have dogs, I walk them, most places are public? I'm not going to hide away because some people can't teach their kids manners.

As I said, we have interactions all the time, lots of people want to pat our dogs and that is fine, I just think they should ask first.

Walking in public means that children are able to touch your dog. Whether that is good manners or not. If your dog isn't snappy or scared then you won't have a problem, because it is extremely rare for these children to try to hurt the dog.

[Mrs Rusty Bucket]

I think kids should ask first too.

I have two favourite refrains when dealing with kids.

She's NOT a TOY. She doesn't like Hugs. She doesn't like being patted on the head any more than you do. She does like her tummy rubbed.

and

ONE at a TIME or you will scare her and then she might bite.

I tend to answer kids questions "why is she licking me?" with "you taste good", which backs off a few kids who are familiar with "Little Red Riding Hood".

And I've taught my dog a bunch of useful tricks that help manage the kids too. Like "roll over" for belly rub, and "shake hands".

[W Sibs]

But, yeah, maybe it's my body language I have to look at. I get tense when I see kids when I walk with Emmy and not realising it. Because I see kids walking with Emmy, i just think 'Oh crap'... but when I see kids walking with Charlie.. it's all good. He goes over to say hello first.

Are you walking them separately?

I guess it is fairly easy for me because I live in a quiet area, in that my street is the end of the road and so the people walking around and the children playing live in the area.

However, there is a playground at the top of my street and I approach it with all antennae up ready to take charge. I have been known to put my hand up like a policeman and yell, "Stop!" Too bad if I look and sound ridiculous. My first concern is my dogs and I won't have them crowded by noisily excited children.

Vi, just be firm. If you are approaching children watch for the first sign that they are going to run or come quickly towards you and YELL at them to stop and tell them they are frightening your dog. If you are having to address Emmy's fear and the children are already upon you, she is going to have ever worsening problems and the time may come when she is an adult and bigger that she snaps through fear.

Tell the children that if they want to pat her, they have to be quiet, gentle, not crowd around, they have to crouch down, not bend over her, etc etc.

You have to address your concerns and reactions too; you won't get tense if you feel you are in charge and can control the situation.

Yes, I walk them separately if I'm walking them alone. Emmy is still a puller and when we go for our walks, we are also training on her stop pulling. Charlie walks in a slow place. So walking them together at the moment can be dangerous! Plus, it's also my alone time with the dogs. Bonding time

I can see you holding out your hand and telling to stop.. and that's what I should be doing too. You're right, Emmy will continue being fearful if I don't show her that I'm a better pack leader. I feel silly because I know all this and I haven't been practicing it with Emmy

[Kelly_Louise]

Sigh... I have the same problem. People just have NO idea... why don't they teach their children how to behave around animals? I'm just astounded at their stupidity.

I've had children come running, screaming and waving their arms at Sasha (who is not good with strangers, she is very timid and wary). The other day, I was walking about 2 metres away from a family of 3 little kids (about 4/5 years old), minding our own business when the kid jumps at us with his arms up and makes a roaring sound.... lucky we were far enough away that Sasha jumped a little but kept walking... I gave the parents a filthy look and shook my head... BUT THEN we were past them and he came running up BEHIND her and yelled a massive roar and waved his arms around. Poor Sasha tucked her tail and ran to the end of the lead. Honestly, I could have slapped the little turd... and could have seriously slapped the parents who were... get this... LAUGHING!!! So I say 'can't you keep your kids under control and stop them bothering other people... teach him how to behave out in public and around animals'. The idiotic father just HMMPH'd at me and turned away. That kid is a bite statistic just waiting to happen, and when it does, the poor animal will get blamed.

Honestly, some people just don't THINK, nor respect other people. No wonder we live in the world we do.

I know if I'd have done that when I was young, Mum would have slapped me silly. Once I stuck my finger in my old dogs mouth (while eating a bone) to see how hard she crunched the bone (dumb I know) and when my nail shattered, my Mum told me not to go crying to her cause it was my own stupid fault. And, thank God we grew up like that...

[W Sibs]

...

Edited June 28, 2010 by CW EW

[W Sibs]

But, yeah, maybe it's my body language I have to look at. I get tense when I see kids when I walk with Emmy and not realising it. Because I see kids walking with Emmy, i just think 'Oh crap'... but when I see kids walking with Charlie.. it's all good. He goes over to say hello first.

Are you walking them separately?

I guess it is fairly easy for me because I live in a quiet area, in that my street is the end of the road and so the people walking around and the children playing live in the area.

However, there is a playground at the top of my street and I approach it with all antennae up ready to take charge. I have been known to put my hand up like a policeman and yell, "Stop!" Too bad if I look and sound ridiculous. My first concern is my dogs and I won't have them crowded by noisily excited children.

Vi, just be firm. If you are approaching children watch for the first sign that they are going to run or come quickly towards you and YELL at them to stop and tell them they are frightening your dog. If you are having to address Emmy's fear and the children are already upon you, she is going to have ever worsening problems and the time may come when she is an adult and bigger that she snaps through fear.

Tell the children that if they want to pat her, they have to be quiet, gentle, not crowd around, they have to crouch down, not bend over her, etc etc.

You have to address your concerns and reactions too; you won't get tense if you feel you are in charge and can control the situation.

Yes, I walk them separately if I'm walking them alone. Emmy is still a puller and when we go for our walks, we are also training on her stop pulling. Charlie walks in a slow place. So walking them together at the moment can be dangerous! Plus, it's also my alone time with the dogs. Bonding time

I can see you holding out your hand and telling to stop.. and that's what I should be doing too. You're right, Emmy will continue being fearful if I don't show her that I'm a better pack leader. I feel silly because I know all this and I haven't been practicing it with Emmy

But I really did wish the kids or their parents will ask me first before they can pat Emmy and not charging over... it would make things a lot easier. I rarely say no to strangers wanting to pat any of my dogs. I want Emmy to be kid friendly.

Edited June 28, 2010 by CW EW

[W Sibs]

Sigh... I have the same problem. People just have NO idea... why don't they teach their children how to behave around animals? I'm just astounded at their stupidity.

I've had children come running, screaming and waving their arms at Sasha (who is not good with strangers, she is very timid and wary). The other day, I was walking about 2 metres away from a family of 3 little kids (about 4/5 years old), minding our own business when the kid jumps at us with his arms up and makes a roaring sound.... lucky we were far enough away that Sasha jumped a little but kept walking... I gave the parents a filthy look and shook my head... BUT THEN we were past them and he came running up BEHIND her and yelled a massive roar and waved his arms around. Poor Sasha tucked her tail and ran to the end of the lead. Honestly, I could have slapped the little turd... and could have seriously slapped the parents who were... get this... LAUGHING!!! So I say 'can't you keep your kids under control and stop them bothering other people... teach him how to behave out in public and around animals'. The idiotic father just HMMPH'd at me and turned away. That kid is a bite statistic just waiting to happen, and when it does, the poor animal will get blamed.

Honestly, some people just don't THINK, nor respect other people. No wonder we live in the world we do.

I know if I'd have done that when I was young, Mum would have slapped me silly. Once I stuck my finger in my old dogs mouth (while eating a bone) to see how hard she crunched the bone (dumb I know) and when my nail shattered, my Mum told me not to go crying to her cause it was my own stupid fault. And, thank God we grew up like that...

Ohh... that's terrible.

That's is when I will snap. One of my friend's kid will use to jump in front of Charlie random and try to scare him... I locked him up in Charlie's crate for timeout.

[HollyE]

I get this TOO much, no matter where i go kids are running up to the pups and it really bugs me, especially when kids just start patting them, I do ask them to ask though because if it was an aggressive dog who knows what could happen ~ my pups are fantastic with kids though, not the point!

Yesterday we went to watch my partners brother play football ~ kids fotty, OH MY i had to get out of there!!

I had a couple of little boys run up screaming "DINGO DINGO"

HAHAHAAH

[mita]

From AWL Q'ld....& I completely agree with them. Dogs are not humans & are not stuffed toys. They behave like dogs....& aggression is a normal trait in dogs. It all depends on control & boundaries:

Reading a dog's body language and respecting its personal space is not only important in keeping children safe, but it is also important in protecting our companion dogs. All too often we hear of dogs (especially small breeds which tend to feel very overwhelmed by childen) having to be euthanased or sentenced to be being muzzled in public because they have lashed out at a child, who was unwittingly causing the dog stress by poking, prodding & hugging.

They add the note of reality:

Even those dogs who do tolerate overbearing kids, may lose their patience eventually, lashing out in what may seem to the child and adults as an

'unprovoked' attack. The problem lies in us humans failing to understand what a dog is trying to tell us through his 'body language'. More often than not, a dog will give us ample warning signs that he is uncomfortable with a situation long before he resorts to a display of physical aggression.

I own 2 'angelic' tibbies....but they are still dogs, tho' well socialised. So I keep strict control on any interactions between them and children. Very much so, when out in public.

Edited June 28, 2010 by mita

[MsKatie]

I've trained my kids particularly my daughter who loves dogs - she will automatically ask "Can I pat your dog" and doesn't mind if they say no

This is her getting Frosty kisses (after being properly introduced)

Edited June 28, 2010 by KelpieHoundMum

[raineth]

Yes, I walk them separately if I'm walking them alone. Emmy is still a puller and when we go for our walks, we are also training on her stop pulling. Charlie walks in a slow place. So walking them together at the moment can be dangerous! Plus, it's also my alone time with the dogs. Bonding time

I can see you holding out your hand and telling to stop.. and that's what I should be doing too. You're right, Emmy will continue being fearful if I don't show her that I'm a better pack leader. I feel silly because I know all this and I haven't been practicing it with Emmy :D

Yep that's all you need to do. Also kids also follow instruction better when you tell them what to do; rather than what not to do. Say 'walk slowly please' rather than 'don't run'.

We (DOLers) like dogs a lot; other people don't necessarily. People who have never grown up around dogs are unlikely to teach their children how to behave around dogs. That is comon sense.

I frequently walk my dog up to the school gates and we stand there while several hundred children (primary and infants) go past. And I have not had one problem using the hand out and 'stop' method. All the kids have been gentle with my dog.

It makes me sad to hear people talk about children with such venom :D we were all kids once! But I guess a lot of people on here were perfect when they were a kid

[MsKatie]

I took Earl ( 8 month bloodhound) in to meet my class of 10 year olds - they loved him and it was a valuable opportunity to teach them about dogs and what to do - we took it 3 at a time to meet him at first - he sat on 2 of them to get more cuddles and rolled over for belly rubs for another couple

[dee136]

Having a mal and a sibe I get "oh, snow dog!" all the time, my problem is half the time the people that come up to touch them without asking are adults on their phones! Although I get lots of children too. I usually give a filthy look and say "do you mind?!" If they can't stop talking on their phone, ask me permission, or even make eye contact I'm happy to be a bitch about it.

I'm with wolfsong, just because they are in public doesn't make them public property. How would parents like it if I were to run up to their children and hug or pat them?

I am still mad about an incident that happened over a year ago. Stopped on the edge of a busy footpath with 1 of my dogs sitting by my side on a short lead when a 5yr old came out of no where screaming "puppy" (even though dog was 30kgs). As the child approached my dog stood up tail wagging (he loves kids and gets excited). His parents were 4shops away walking with other adults talking, not watching the child, they saw the dog turn his head to face the child and came running over yelling at me about having an aggressive dog on the street without a muzzle! As my dogs mouth was open, tongue hanging out he must of been about to eat their child, never mind the wagging tail. I gave them a lecture about my dog being under effective control being by my side on the edge of the footpath out of the way and questioned them about what kind of control they had over their child on such a busy street. All I got was continuous bitching as they grabbed the child and walked off. Shame, he child was very cute and I would of been happy to show him how to pat the dog calmly.

I have had good experiences too though. Walking on a busy track one day a family of 5 stepped off the path & stood looking at my 2 dogs, I thought they were scared of the dogs. (Since I've started using halties I find people mistake them for muzzles and keep their distance as well as giving me dirty looks & mention the child attacked in a hairdressers by a husky) Anyway, the dad approached me as I walked closer asking if my dogs were friendly and liked meeting new people. He said they had seen me coming and thought my dogs were beautiful. When I said the dogs adored people he rushed back to tell the rest of his family and they all came over very excited to meet the dogs. Everyone had a great time, including the dogs, I was so happy for such a positive experience.

Using halties has stopped a lot of people approaching without asking but I don't like everyone thinking they are horrible aggressive dogs.

[Crazy Daisy]

Yes, I walk them separately if I'm walking them alone. Emmy is still a puller and when we go for our walks, we are also training on her stop pulling. Charlie walks in a slow place. So walking them together at the moment can be dangerous! Plus, it's also my alone time with the dogs. Bonding time

I can see you holding out your hand and telling to stop.. and that's what I should be doing too. You're right, Emmy will continue being fearful if I don't show her that I'm a better pack leader. I feel silly because I know all this and I haven't been practicing it with Emmy :D

Yep that's all you need to do. Also kids also follow instruction better when you tell them what to do; rather than what not to do. Say 'walk slowly please' rather than 'don't run'.

We (DOLers) like dogs a lot; other people don't necessarily. People who have never grown up around dogs are unlikely to teach their children how to behave around dogs. That is comon sense.

I frequently walk my dog up to the school gates and we stand there while several hundred children (primary and infants) go past. And I have not had one problem using the hand out and 'stop' method. All the kids have been gentle with my dog.

It makes me sad to hear people talk about children with such venom :D we were all kids once! But I guess a lot of people on here were perfect when they were a kid

Couldn't have said it better myself. Agree 100%

[Crazy Daisy]

Double post

Edited June 28, 2010 by Crazy Daisy