Welcoming Newbies

[Parkeyre]

Dogs sold on main register are generally shown as show potential not as a show dog. However some breeders may allow you to return the pup and get another show potential puppy - that doesn't mean it will turn out any better and they are by no means obligated to do so. Why do you think so many pups are run on by breeders and then rehomed into a pet home?

And as has been said, 6 month old puppies can look absolutely shocking One of the biggest winning Group 5 dogs in WA did very badly as a youngster. What has the breeder said?

I agree.

[Mrs Rusty Bucket]

Inez

Any chance your friend could have a discussion with the breeder. If she's really unhappy she should be able to return the puppy if she doesn't want it any more (better than it going to the pound or a puppy mill).

But if she wants to compete with the puppy - maybe there is some other dog sport she'd enjoy? Agility? Flyball? Herding? Earth dog? Tracking?

I hate competitions where judges opinions decide winners. I like there to be something more defined in who wins, eg Agility may have a small part for the Judges opinion but even that can be reduced or made easy for judge to get right.

[Havasneeze]

Yes I agree that pups are sold as show potential rather than show quality. I have a litter from which I am running on 3 pups. One boy grows in proportion and always looks good. The girl got long in the body first and had no legs so instead of looking like a havanese she looked like a dachie. Now she has grown some legs and is looking quite good. I have another boy whose head got big first, like his father, just have to wait for his body to catch up to his head. All 3 should turn out to be nice pups but if I just worked on the little spurts instead of looking at the big picture, I would only have 1 of them now and I'm of the opinion that the big headed boy and the girl will turn out to be very nice dogs. Sometimes patience is a wonderful tool.

[WreckitWhippet]

Just reading that again and it's no wonder that so many breeders won't give newbies a go. They get a puppy that has potential and then pack it in at the first hurdle.

[poodlefan]

As a fairly new entrant to the show scene I can only give this advice:

The only way anyone can guarantee that the dog you buy is "show quality" is to sell you one that's already a Champion.

Buying baby puppies sees you relying on a good amount of breeder experience and a pretty hefty amount of luck.

Depending on the breed you exhibit and the level of competition you have, you also have to rely on good grooming and handling.

Personally, I'd be talking to the breeder. People can say some pretty ugly things to newbs who might be serious competition down the track.

[Bilbo Baggins]

Oh doG! Tell me about it.

Can you imagine what we thought when we realised that we owned THIS at 6 months of age?

Thankfully, 4 months later....he looked like THIS!!

:D :D

[Bisart Dobes]

The only way anyone can guarantee that the dog you buy is "show quality" is to sell you one that's already a Champion.

Sorry - no offence to you or your comment but a Champion title isn't always a guarentee that you have a quality show dog. I've seen dogs title with extras on the end of the lead that I wouldn't put in the ring if I bred it . . .

[Bisart Dobes]

The worst age to look at most breeds is between 6 and 12 / 18 months. I would tell your friend to get the breeder to reassess the pup and take it from there.

I have a 4 year old who hasn't hit his maturity yet - waiting waiting waiting . His sister CH Titled at 2 1/2 and his brother at 3 but he's taking his sweeta--e time.

I have a 2 1/2 year old whose head still changes monthly - his jaw structure changes - teeth move - lacks underjaw and then a month later looks at me and I nearly fall over with how stunning his head looks. He will probably finish at 4 years as well.

We always run on our picks until 12 to 16 weeks. In the last litter I had someone who wanted a show puppy - they also wanted her at 8 weeks of age, this I understand but had to explain the risk on taking a 'show potential' at 8 weeks. Still she was a lovely puppy, has gone through the fugglies and is now starting to mature into a beautiful girl - they have had her out of the ring for some time understanding the process but we'll get her back in soon.

Patience Is A Virtue

[Tambaqui]

I've been showing my little guy since September last year and between February and May I had dreadful luck and kept bombing out with no challenge points and sometimes not even coming close to reserve challenges!

Even he was beaten out in his classes, but upon listening to my breeder and other Min Pin people advice and my own parents, and learning they do go through the uglies stages and to be patience!

I was close to throwing it in with him and just stick to obedience, but the United Pinscher speciality changed that, when he picked up a Reserve Challenge over many dogs and even those that were titled! The only one he did not defeat is the one Grand Champion, the same dog he usually gets Reserve Challenge to! Not only that, he went Junior in Show as well.

Please remember that I only went to that show to for the best Chocolate and Tan class!

He also lately gotten some nice amount of points for BOB the next week and even recently an 8 Point Challenge over older and more matured dogs and he went RUBOB!

He is now sitting half way through to his title, and at the moment will only show on Saturdays until Summer comes back as my dog prefers to be outdoors on the grass.

Many say too that you always learn from your first dog and it is true!

Also to add, Clancy was also show potential and was mentioned that he maybe too small for showing! Well after 12 months, he grown into a nice sized little guy!

[oakway]

I had some fun finding some very nice Whippet's in the kennels the other day. They are 3 now - just long enough I thing

Sounds about right to me.

[SpikesPuppy]

There were a few weeks when I was doubting my decision to keep the pup I chose... She was ace at 8 weeks though then a few weeks after her debut looked so awkward!!! Even had a dipped topline. Now at 5 months I'm happy with her again just keeping an eye on the mouth, and expecting her to go trough another ugly stage shortly but I think she will be okay

Also was looking at some picks of my older girl as a 'teenager' about 7-12 months old and my goD she was HIDEOUS!!!!! But at 3 years she is still improving and just went BISS a few weeks ago.

Mums collie (smooth) is almost 2 and IMO won't be mature until at least 3 years old. From puppy to junior class in particular she was REALLY akward, all legs, no depth of chest etc. Ick.

Hehe I have seen the bitch lappiemum was talking about and within 2 weeks even she has changed again, for the better!!!

I don't understand the idea of giving up on babies and youngsters unless they are males with no balls or are too big for the standard. Even things like cowhocks can improve or disappear after a growth spurt or with different conditioning.

There is a saying that the best dogs are the ugliest teenagers

[D & D]

I'm still a newbie.

My first show dog has just turned two, and she's still got a lot of maturing to do. Meh, no dramas, I can wait. She's still my dog and I won't love her any less if she's not perfect.

I have learnt heaps from her, probably a lot more than if she had been perfect from the start. I took her out of the show ring for eight months and have just put her back in. She's now holding her own.

I also have a male. My god, he's gone through some odd stages

We go to shows to have fun and socialise. Winning frilly ribbons is a bonus. A quote I heard early on that has stuck with me goes something along the lines of:

Don't be disappointed if your dog gets beaten, eventually every dog but one will get beaten.

[poodlefan]

The only way anyone can guarantee that the dog you buy is "show quality" is to sell you one that's already a Champion.

Sorry - no offence to you or your comment but a Champion title isn't always a guarentee that you have a quality show dog. I've seen dogs title with extras on the end of the lead that I wouldn't put in the ring if I bred it . . .

Don't worry about offending... as I typed it, I thought that there were Champions out there in name only.

[whippets]

I had some fun finding some very nice Whippet's in the kennels the other day. They are 3 now - just long enough I thing

yep ready ha

[poodlefan]

I had some fun finding some very nice Whippet's in the kennels the other day. They are 3 now - just long enough I thing

yep ready ha

Howie is 22 months. His breeders saw him on the weekend and reckon he's got another 12-18 months maturing to do.

[inez]

I don't understand how the topic heading relates to the post.

Anyway, keep hold of the puppy, he/she could be going through the uglies. I know with my whippet dam line they don't even blossom till 3 years of age. That's a hell of a time to wait but worth it.

You need patience breeding dogs and owners of potential show pups should exercise that same patience. Unfortunately there are some who think that buying a show prospect entitles them to a group sash every weekend and a guaranteed champion.

I am only finding out bits at a time but seems what has been said about the breeder and the pup is extremely derogatory. I really dont want to say much. but not a nice way to talk to a newbile about their darling pup. I know perfectly well how much puppies can change, but when a whole gaggle do a pack attack at a public show its pretty distressing for the owner of the pup. So one voice saying hey some do this and go through some alarming changes, is pretty lost in the din. hence my post. just didnt know how to word it. Pretty sensative area is it not?

To my eye I have seen dogs with more serious (well to me) things becoming champions n best of breeds once they matured. But thats only words right now, as well others dont go back to their promise either. very hard to know what to say.

Maybe this happend years ago and I didnt notice, but making a newbie feel desolated doesnt seem a very nice way to introduce one to the show world

[poodlefan]

I don't understand how the topic heading relates to the post.

Anyway, keep hold of the puppy, he/she could be going through the uglies. I know with my whippet dam line they don't even blossom till 3 years of age. That's a hell of a time to wait but worth it.

You need patience breeding dogs and owners of potential show pups should exercise that same patience. Unfortunately there are some who think that buying a show prospect entitles them to a group sash every weekend and a guaranteed champion.

I am only finding out bits at a time but seems what has been said about the breeder and the pup is extremely derogatory. I really dont want to say much. but not a nice way to talk to a newbile about their darling pup. I know perfectly well how much puppies can change, but when a whole gaggle do a pack attack at a public show its pretty distressing for the owner of the pup. So one voice saying hey some do this and go through some alarming changes, is pretty lost in the din. hence my post. just didnt know how to word it. Pretty sensative area is it not?

To my eye I have seen dogs with more serious (well to me) things becoming champions n best of breeds once they matured. But thats only words right now, as well others dont go back to their promise either. very hard to know what to say.

Maybe this happend years ago and I didnt notice, but making a newbie feel desolated doesnt seem a very nice way to introduce one to the show world

Sounds to me like the best action the pup's owner could take is to express any concerns to the breeder.

[ellz]

I am only finding out bits at a time but seems what has been said about the breeder and the pup is extremely derogatory. I really dont want to say much. but not a nice way to talk to a newbile about their darling pup. I know perfectly well how much puppies can change, but when a whole gaggle do a pack attack at a public show its pretty distressing for the owner of the pup. So one voice saying hey some do this and go through some alarming changes, is pretty lost in the din. hence my post. just didnt know how to word it. Pretty sensative area is it not?

To my eye I have seen dogs with more serious (well to me) things becoming champions n best of breeds once they matured. But thats only words right now, as well others dont go back to their promise either. very hard to know what to say.

Maybe this happend years ago and I didnt notice, but making a newbie feel desolated doesnt seem a very nice way to introduce one to the show world

Sounds to me like it could be one of two scenarios. If there is, as you say, a gaggle doing a pack attack then either the newbie does in fact have a dud, OR they have something which is very nice and the competition are worried.

Whilst I do know that it isn't a nice way to welcome a newbie, the newbie, like everybody else needs to learn to rise above it. The cream always rises to the top.

[SpikesPuppy]

I started with a not so great male- he is nice and has had some decent wins but he's no superstar!! And I accept him for what he is and still show him even tho it's often just giving points away but he loves the ring and I love showing him.

Anyway my point is- by showing him and not giving up I not only learnt a heap about ringcraft and handling and about the breed (grooming etc) but I was also able to demonstrate that I was committed to exhibiting and was rewarded with my fantastic bitch who has become the foundation of my kennel. People had and still have their opinions of him an I am well aware of his faults, but I shrug it off and keep plugging away he was 4 and a half when he titled, with 9 points under a breed specialist mind you, but I am so glad that I persevered with him and very proud of our achievements.

Even if you have a GREAT dog, other exhibitors will find something to pick on

I agree tho it's not a nice way to treat a newbie but then it's not a nice way to treat anybody!! IMO your friend should talk to the breeder as well as critiquing the dog based on the standard, preferably an extended or illustrated standard (one that explains why each point is important in relation to the original purpose) and then decide if they are indeed happy with their dog representing the breed. The important thing tho is to be HONEST when doing this.

I can honestly say that based on my interpretation of the standard, I am proud of my boy and believe he is a very nice example of his breed. BUT he is not the best and that is okay too but I believe he fits the standard well.

[ShesaLikeableBiBear]

Is this what you call the uglies at 4 months?. and at 19 months

Edited June 28, 2010 by Hesapandabear