Steve Posted June 28, 2010 Share Posted June 28, 2010 O.K. The MDBA have some things coming together to push for reform with breeding and rescue and to this end Id like to get some ideas and feedback as Im working through it all. This is the first of several - there are no right or wrong answers - Im just after what you think for now. Question.Definition of a Puppy Farmer. In under 50 words - please describe what you believe defines a puppy farmer in difference to anyone else who breeds puppies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greytmate Posted June 28, 2010 Share Posted June 28, 2010 I am not going to define puppy farmer. I am going to list some commercial dog breeding practices that I do not like. Breeding without providing adequate kennel enrichment or exercise. Providing no veterinary care for pups because it is not cost effective. Breeding from stock with no knowledge of the dog's pedigree/genetics. Breeding from unregistered stock. Breeding every season. Breeding with a bitch up until the time she dies. I will add more when I think of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W Sibs Posted June 28, 2010 Share Posted June 28, 2010 Puppy farmers doesn't see dogs as animal or living things. They see them as a product that they can use to make $$. Once the dogs are done with producing puppies.. they are toss out like old goods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted June 28, 2010 Author Share Posted June 28, 2010 I am not going to define puppy farmer. I am going to list some commercial dog breeding practices that I do not like.Breeding without providing adequate kennel enrichment or exercise. Providing no veterinary care for pups because it is not cost effective. Breeding from stock with no knowledge of the dog's pedigree/genetics. Breeding from unregistered stock. Breeding every season. Breeding with a bitch up until the time she dies. I will add more when I think of them. O.K. So lets explore these a bit. Why breeding every season when canine reproduction specialists say its BETTER for the bitch to breed every season? disclaimer - I dont breed a bitch every season because its against my codes of conduct not because I'm convinced its whats best for my dog. When do you think a bitch should stop breeding? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted June 28, 2010 Author Share Posted June 28, 2010 Puppy farmers doesn't see dogs as animal or living things. They see them as a product that they can use to make $$. Once the dogs are done with producing puppies.. they are toss out like old goods. Good explore this What do you think should happen when a bitch cant be bred any more? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oakway Posted June 28, 2010 Share Posted June 28, 2010 Oh boy what a task you have set. Almost nigh impossible except the conditions the dogs are kept in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greytmate Posted June 28, 2010 Share Posted June 28, 2010 O.K. So lets explore these a bit.Why breeding every season when canine reproduction specialists say its BETTER for the bitch to breed every season? disclaimer - I dont breed a bitch every season because its against my codes of conduct not because I'm convinced its whats best for my dog. When do you think a bitch should stop breeding? Canine Reproductive Specialists depend on bitches being bred for their income. When I say every season, I mean every season. For her whole life. I don't like people that do that, and I wouldn't trust a repro specialist that tried to say it was better for the bitch than to give her a break once in a while. Given the value of a litter of dogs, maybe no bitch should be bred from without undergoing a veterinary check up first. Maybe a system needs to be set up where the vet should be asked to sign a certificate to say that the dog's bloods, teeth, etc are all ok and that the bitch is not too old or decrepit to be put through it. I can't see that happenning though, because there is too much money in canine repro for vets to turn away the type of customers that bulk breed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W Sibs Posted June 28, 2010 Share Posted June 28, 2010 Puppy farmers doesn't see dogs as animal or living things. They see them as a product that they can use to make $$. Once the dogs are done with producing puppies.. they are toss out like old goods. Good explore this What do you think should happen when a bitch cant be bred any more? Hmm... I would love to say, get them desexed and rehome to people who will love them and spoil them for the rest of their life. It's going to take very special people who are willing to take them in to look after them and be patient with them to make them better. But, realistically and sadly, depending on the age and living in a cage all her life.. she is going to have serious behaviour and health issues, sometimes the best for her is to PTS and let her go over to rainbow bridge In my fantasy world... there was will a no kill rescue old dog retirement home where they can take in these dogs, and let them live the rest of their life in open space, good food and a lot of TLC. But, we don't live in that kind of world. YET. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greytmate Posted June 28, 2010 Share Posted June 28, 2010 Puppy farmers doesn't see dogs as animal or living things. They see them as a product that they can use to make $$. Once the dogs are done with producing puppies.. they are toss out like old goods. Good explore this What do you think should happen when a bitch cant be bred any more? There should be a code of practice for the management of any dog at any age that includes appropriate care, enrichment and exercise. If a breeder cannot comply with the code, they shouldn't have the dog in their care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greytmate Posted June 28, 2010 Share Posted June 28, 2010 Are you pushing for law reform? Or reform for members of your own organisation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merijigs Posted June 28, 2010 Share Posted June 28, 2010 Great Steve! I'll step up to the plate with some initial thoughts. A puppy farmer is someone: who breeds dogs for financial motives rather than for the maintenance and development of type, temperament and soundness of the breed. A puppy farmer can be identified as someone: who exports whole litters or multiple puppies from the same litter to a single person or agency who exports whole litters or multiple puppies from the same litter, from multiple breeds who fills orders from pet stores or retail chains for puppies of specified breeds or cross breeds who breeds a bitch almost every season of her adult fertile life who fails to meet legislated standards for animal welfare especially provisions addressing adequacy of housing and veterinary care who fails to provide breed-appropriate exercise and training for multiple breeds in their care I hope these thoughts will help to progress effective action against puppy farmers whether they are registered with a State Canine Authority or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merijigs Posted June 28, 2010 Share Posted June 28, 2010 I am not going to define puppy farmer. I am going to list some commercial dog breeding practices that I do not like.Breeding without providing adequate kennel enrichment or exercise. Providing no veterinary care for pups because it is not cost effective. Breeding from stock with no knowledge of the dog's pedigree/genetics. Breeding from unregistered stock. Breeding every season. Breeding with a bitch up until the time she dies. I will add more when I think of them. O.K. So lets explore these a bit. Why breeding every season when canine reproduction specialists say its BETTER for the bitch to breed every season? disclaimer - I dont breed a bitch every season because its against my codes of conduct not because I'm convinced its whats best for my dog. When do you think a bitch should stop breeding? You say "canine reproduction specialists say its BETTER for the bitch to breed every season" Sorry, but you really have to substantiate this statement with citations to peer-reviewed, published research in academic journals for me to believe this is the proven truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
labsrule Posted June 28, 2010 Share Posted June 28, 2010 (edited) My definition of a puppy farmer: A puppy farmer mass produces puppies purely for commercial gain with scant disregard for both pups and parent’s health and welfare. This is done by breeding pups in more often than not atrocious conditions with minimal human intervention and exposure to any stimulation outside the confines of their appalling conditions, for both parents for the remainder of their lives and for pups up until and if they leave the puppy farm. Everything that is done at a puppy farm is about maximizing profit and minimizing costs at the expense of the parents and puppies including limited or no veterinary care or necessary health checks. Sorry I exceeded the 50 word limit Edited June 28, 2010 by labsrule Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little Gifts Posted June 28, 2010 Share Posted June 28, 2010 A puppy farmer is someone who increases the number of companion animals available nationally, with a focus on making an income, but without consideration for: 1. the overall health and wellbeing of animals currently in their care 2. the future health and wellbeing of the animals they produce and on sell 3. the establishment of of a 'code of practice' to maintain a level of industry standards 4. the impact of their current business practices on the abandonment and neglect of companion animals nationwide 5. the financial cost of abandonment and neglect on society and local governments 6. the physical and emotional cost of abandonment and neglect on rescue organisations and the companion animals themselves. PS Julie - I am still working on that grants stuff - haven't forgotten! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dancinbcs Posted June 28, 2010 Share Posted June 28, 2010 O.K. So lets explore these a bit.Why breeding every season when canine reproduction specialists say its BETTER for the bitch to breed every season? disclaimer - I dont breed a bitch every season because its against my codes of conduct not because I'm convinced its whats best for my dog. When do you think a bitch should stop breeding? Canine repro specialists say from a fertitlity point of view, breeding once a year is better, not every season. Also they are only talking about fertitlity not the welfare of the bitch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dancinbcs Posted June 28, 2010 Share Posted June 28, 2010 Puppy farmers doesn't see dogs as animal or living things. They see them as a product that they can use to make $$. Once the dogs are done with producing puppies.. they are toss out like old goods. Good explore this What do you think should happen when a bitch cant be bred any more? Caring reputable breeders keep their retired breeding stock for their whole lives. I have no problem with breeders that choose to breed one or two litters from a young bitch before desexing and placing her in a forever home but once they reach 7, I believe the breeder should continue to look after them in their retirement. One of the main factors in defining a puppy farmer is that they don't have any oldies living out their days with them because keeping oldies is what negates any profit you may have made on breeding them in their younger days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandra777 Posted June 28, 2010 Share Posted June 28, 2010 (edited) Caring reputable breeders keep their retired breeding stock for their whole lives. I have no problem with breeders that choose to breed one or two litters from a young bitch before desexing and placing her in a forever home but once they reach 7, I believe the breeder should continue to look after them in their retirement. IMO 7 is a random number. 7 for a Dane is "older" age, 7 for a smaller breed bitch is quite a lot less than 1/2 her life expectancy. Some dogs no matter what their age are keepers, some aren't. There's always some which are going to be happier living as a single dog and their age doesn't change this - so what to do? Keep a 7.5 year old bitch to avoid being labelled a puppy farmer or keep her for another 8-10 years in a situation where she is never as happy as she could be elsewhere? One of the main factors in defining a puppy farmer is that they don't have any oldies living out their days with them because keeping oldies is what negates any profit you may have made on breeding them in their younger days. Or someone who has not been in the breed for long, or someone who breeds very infrequently and has lost all their oldies through natural causes. We lost all 3 of our over 14's in a space of 8 months quite a few years ago, our next oldest was 5 - from ethical reputable breeder to puppy farmer in 8 months? IMO a puppy farmer is about motive not actual physical things. A beautifully kept kennel with all the latest mod-cons can be a puppy farm. Although admittedly, no loving caring people would keep their dogs in a sea of mud so the reverse analogy isn't 100% correct. Edited June 28, 2010 by Sandra777 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vickie Posted June 28, 2010 Share Posted June 28, 2010 (edited) I have thought about this a lot and this is what I finally came up with: A puppy farmer for me is simply someone who repeatedly breeds cross or poor examples of a breed. Edited June 28, 2010 by Vickie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted June 28, 2010 Author Share Posted June 28, 2010 Are you pushing for law reform? Or reform for members of your own organisation? Law reform. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lappiemum Posted June 28, 2010 Share Posted June 28, 2010 A puppy farmer is like a chicken farmer. Except in this case the product isn't eggs, its more puppies. The defination doesn't matter if its a big operation or a small operation - if the primary object is to generate income, that breeder is a farmer. They may have great care standards, they may be signatory to professional bodies etc, hell they are often even registered breeders - but if the driving motivator is to supply puppies to a market, they are farmers. Usually, the quality suffers because of the need to drive supply, but thats more a symptom of the market. Health care is usually substandard as it cuts into profits, but there are some puppy farmers who make a points of saying they health test (hips etc) as its a good marketing strategy. So, I think any defination has to start with breeding for profit as the primary focus . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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