meluchja Posted June 24, 2010 Share Posted June 24, 2010 My vet told me to try a chicken free diet for our puppy, to see if it stops him scratching and improve his dry skin. I have started him on the EP Anchovy, Sardine and Salmon kibble and instead of feeding with raw chicken I have been feeding it with either sardines or roo mixture. So I know I should keep him on it for 6 weeks to see the full effects. But I'm curious, how early or how long can it be until I notice improvement (if any)? A few days, couple of weeks etc? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy Daisy Posted June 24, 2010 Share Posted June 24, 2010 I have a dog with an allergy to chicken and he didn't improve with a fish diet but is great with just lamb and vegies. I noticed a huge improvement after two weeks, no redness. Then after about four weeks his hair, which had been falling out, started to grow back. You should at least see a reduction in the scratching in about 2 weeks I would think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sas Posted June 24, 2010 Share Posted June 24, 2010 (edited) I don't believe you can do an Elimination diet on Kibble, there are just too many ingrediants and preservatives etc. An Elimination diet is about feeding 1 protein source they haven't had before i.e. goat and then have that with something like Potato. It can take up to 8 weeks on a strict Elimination Diet to see the results of it. Edited: Why does your Vet think Chicken is the Culprit? Edited June 24, 2010 by sas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meluchja Posted June 24, 2010 Author Share Posted June 24, 2010 I don't believe you can do an Elimination diet on Kibble, there are just too many ingrediants and preservatives etc.An Elimination diet is about feeding 1 protein source they haven't had before i.e. goat and then have that with something like Potato. It can take up to 8 weeks on a strict Elimination Diet to see the results of it. Edited: Why does your Vet think Chicken is the Culprit? I don't think it is as much an Elimination diet, but more of a restriction to see if she sees improvement. She isn't sure it is chicken, but since chicken has a high rate of causing skin irritations, I guess she thought it might be a good place to start. Oh and the EP is preservative free, and has only natural ingredients. And they do a lamb flavour I think, so if the fish doesn't work I will try the lamb I think. CD, 2 weeks. Thanks. So a few days is a little to eager Thought so, thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stormie Posted June 24, 2010 Share Posted June 24, 2010 If your dog has a food allergy, it could easily be anything that it has eaten previously - and easily more than one thing. I have a dog with an allergy to chicken and fish. The Eagle Pack Lamb and Rice still has chicken fat in it, too. What sas says is true and really, would save you a lot of money and give you more of an idea. You could spend money buying the EP, but what if there's something else as well as chicken? like fish? Starting on a proper elimination diet is not only going to save you time and money, it's going to give you proper results. The incidents of food allergy (on its own) is actually quite low. In fact some of the Derms are now opting to put patients on Atopica trials BEFORE they do food elimination diets, because that gives them a better idea of whether it's environmental or food, because the Atopica doesn't work so well for food allergies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oakway Posted June 25, 2010 Share Posted June 25, 2010 I agree with sas and stormie. Actually if I had a dog with an allergy and if I thought it was chicken I would just feed the dog chicken. That way you find out real quick if it is chicken. You get a great flare up of the problem and then you just eliminate all of the chicken from the diet. All dog food has some kind of preservative in it or it would not keep. Natural preservatives are used, or so called ones. but how do you know that isn't the product that is causing the problem. Just because things are natural doesn't mean that you dog isn't allergic to it. Some dogs are allergic to grass and whats more natural than grass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meluchja Posted June 25, 2010 Author Share Posted June 25, 2010 Thank you both of you for advice, greatly appreciated. So, which ever way one decides to go, how long do you think it would be until you see some improvements? ie. scratching. Couple of days? Couple of weeks? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oakway Posted June 25, 2010 Share Posted June 25, 2010 Could take up to 10 days and you should start to see a difference. Just depends on how quickly you can eliminate everything from the diet. Also don't forget that it may be more than one product that is causing the problem. That's why I would only feed one product at a time. It works for me but does not necessarily work for everybody. Good luck with it all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mas1981 Posted June 25, 2010 Share Posted June 25, 2010 (edited) I agree with what everyone else has said regarding the kibble and elimination diet, the other problem is that they dont list all their ingredients so you may think you are only feeding fish protein but anything else could also be in there. The other thing I always wonder about with kibble is cross contamination, do they use the same machines to make all flavours of kibble or do they have specific machines to only do fish, one only to do the lamb?? I went down that same road you are on, I tried EP Holistic Select Sardine salmon and Anchoy and I tried the Hills ZD, saw no diff on the EP and the Hills gave my dogs the runs so he could not stay on it for 8 weeks, I finally got tired of going back and forth to the vet and letting her keep guessing what was wrong with my dog, I found a new vet and he sent me to a dermatologist. We are now on a roo and sweet potato diet only, my dog is scratching less and he is looking so much better, way shinier and more active, no more dog breath etc. You dog is very young, my advice to you is to go to a dermatologist because they are specialists for a reason, sad as it is most dogs allergies tend to just get worse and worse with age. My dog had no symptoms until he was around 8 months old, at 12months they were worse and now at 14months I battle to keep them under control. To answer your question we have been on roo and potato for 2 weeks now and I can see an improvement, with my dog its hard to tell though as the derm is 100% sure he is atopic as grass sets him off, his paws go red, his face swells, he scratches, he just has a bad ear infection at the moment so I have to wait to allergy test him until he is off the meds. Edited June 25, 2010 by Mas1981 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stormie Posted June 25, 2010 Share Posted June 25, 2010 You should stay on an elimination diet for 12weeks because that's how long it can take. But usually you would expect to see a reduction within about 2-3weeks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meluchja Posted June 25, 2010 Author Share Posted June 25, 2010 (edited) Thank you everyone, I might keep going with this, and if there is no difference after 2 weeks (I know it should be 6-8 weeks) but from what most people have said, I should see SOME difference in 2 weeks. If there is no difference at all then I might take him to see a derm. Does anyone recommend a good one in Brisbane? Edited June 25, 2010 by meluchja Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stitch Posted June 25, 2010 Share Posted June 25, 2010 Mike Shipston at West Chermside Specialist Vets is very good. I realise that you believe that diet is the cause of the problem but have you also tried washing your dog with Malaseb (according to instructions)?? Dry flakey skin can have other causes and Malaseb is good for so many things including that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papillon Posted June 25, 2010 Share Posted June 25, 2010 I assume the vet checked the dog for a yeast, fungal or parasitic (mite) infection on the skin? One of my dogs was diagnosed with food allergies but turned out she had a yeast infection. I tried using a vet shampoo called Sebolise but it was rubbish. I now use Palmolive Scalp Care for humans. She gets a bath with it twice a year and has no more problems. A word on raw chicken, chicken is often contaminated with numerous bacteria, many of which are resistant to the more common anti-biotics used on animals and people. Feeding raw chicken is often considered good, but unless you can guarantee the chicken is free of bacteria, you are better off cooking it. Cooking also makes meat easier to digest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mas1981 Posted June 25, 2010 Share Posted June 25, 2010 Mike Shipston at West Chermside Specialist Vets is very good.I realise that you believe that diet is the cause of the problem but have you also tried washing your dog with Malaseb (according to instructions)?? Dry flakey skin can have other causes and Malaseb is good for so many things including that! Malaseb can also cause dry flakey skin in allergic dogs! We got told not to use it by our derm, we use QV wash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stitch Posted June 25, 2010 Share Posted June 25, 2010 Conflicting advice - we were advised the exact opposite and had good results with it! Best to take the dog to the dermo.vet and get an accurate diagnosis & treatment! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mas1981 Posted June 25, 2010 Share Posted June 25, 2010 Conflicting advice - we were advised the exact opposite and had good results with it! Best to take the dog to the dermo.vet and get an accurate diagnosis & treatment! I suppose its like us humans, we all have a different skin type, for my dog his skin dries out very quickly which makes sense if you think about his skin barrier not working properly as all the moisture escapes quite easily Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meluchja Posted June 25, 2010 Author Share Posted June 25, 2010 Mike Shipston at West Chermside Specialist Vets is very good.I realise that you believe that diet is the cause of the problem but have you also tried washing your dog with Malaseb (according to instructions)?? Dry flakey skin can have other causes and Malaseb is good for so many things including that! :cool: Thank you for this, I might take him to see the derm guy and see what he has to say about his skin. I find a lot of conflicting advice on here. But I guess it just proves that all dogs are different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sas Posted June 25, 2010 Share Posted June 25, 2010 Mike Shipston at West Chermside Specialist Vets is very good.I realise that you believe that diet is the cause of the problem but have you also tried washing your dog with Malaseb (according to instructions)?? Dry flakey skin can have other causes and Malaseb is good for so many things including that! :cool: Thank you for this, I might take him to see the derm guy and see what he has to say about his skin. I find a lot of conflicting advice on here. But I guess it just proves that all dogs are different. I don't think there's any conflicting advice. Just people who actually have had allergic dogs for a long time trying to help you not waste your money on something that's not going to give you clear indication. Go for the Derm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsdog2 Posted June 25, 2010 Share Posted June 25, 2010 (edited) Mike Shipston at West Chermside Specialist Vets is very good.I realise that you believe that diet is the cause of the problem but have you also tried washing your dog with Malaseb (according to instructions)?? Dry flakey skin can have other causes and Malaseb is good for so many things including that! :cool: Thank you for this, I might take him to see the derm guy and see what he has to say about his skin. I find a lot of conflicting advice on here. But I guess it just proves that all dogs are different. Yes, go to the Dermatologist!!! I have spent $2000 at the vet treating my 19mth GSD for "possible" food allergy, "possible" flea allergy and "possible" contact allergy........... and the list goes on . We now go to a Dermatologist and no, we're still working out what's causing her allergy, but we do know it's not food, flea's or contact allergy. She has an atopic dermatitis which seems to have settled at the moment, however if/when it starts again (seasonal ???) we are going for the skin test and hopefully vaccine. When I think of the money I have spent with my vet trying to guess what's causing her allergy I think a Dermatolgist is money well spent Edited June 25, 2010 by gsdog2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest belgian.blue Posted June 25, 2010 Share Posted June 25, 2010 Would the hormones [ie example chemicals] that chickens are fed cause an allergic reation in our dogs, not the actual chicken meat? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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