Cheating

[ellz]

My main concern is when you know that breeders/exititors physicaly alter there dogs eg Teeth/bite ,testicals and tail .

They're only kidding themselves. They can fool the judges, can fool other people, but can't fool Mother Nature!

[ozmalinois]

I don't really care about chalk and hairspray being used on dogs. I'd be more peeved when an obviously unsound dog gets put up for a major award.

LOL - you should be at some of the recent shows in SEQ and witness a particular dog winning BIG!

I'd be VERY concerned if my dog's rear end popped in and out and bunny hopped all over the place like this dog. Some judges really need to be held accountable for their obviously stupid decisions...........oh well just another one we won't enter under now.

[Shaar]

If any cutting, piercing, breaking by force, or any other kind of operation or act which destroys the tissues

of the ears or alters their natural formation

Hmmm, I know this would be referring to cropping, but wouldn't ear taping fall under this category as well?

(just curious)

Technically no, because it is non-invasive, ethically....well that depends upon which part of the fence you sit on.

Thanks Ellz

[Darkrai]

If any cutting, piercing, breaking by force, or any other kind of operation or act which destroys the tissues

of the ears or alters their natural formation

Hmmm, I know this would be referring to cropping, but wouldn't ear taping fall under this category as well?

(just curious)

Would tail taping be classed here too?

[dog geek]

Well, yes, tail taping would come under this. It is a defining breed characteristic, the ring in the tail, and should be there naturally.

The dog should be assessed on its merits as future breeding stock - something deliberately relegated far down the list of priorities in in the pursuit of winning. All the cosmetic alterations are changing the phenotype - SOME breeders are no longer selecting for natural, genetically present traits.

Peeves me no end, I am not even a breeder but am fed up with the changing phenotype aided by ridiculously elaborate titifying... blech to the over-groomed wonders swanning around the ring!

Edited July 3, 2010 by dog geek

[whippets]

Well, yes, tail taping would come under this. It is a defining breed characteristic, the ring in the tail, and should be there naturally.

The dog should be assessed on its merits as future breeding stock - something deliberately relegated far down the list of priorities in in the pursuit of winning. All the cosmetic alterations are changing the phenotype - breeders are no longer selecting for natural, genetically present traits.

Peeves me no end, I am not even a breeder but am fed up with the changing phenotype aided by ridiculously elaborate titifying... blech to the over-groomed wonders swanning around the ring!

Your second paragraph is a sweeping statement, especially part of the last sentence. Don't you mean "some breeders"? don't toss every breeder into the same basket.

[ravenau1]

Some breed standards state 'no artificial substances in the coat' so that means no chalking or hairspray... these things get overlooked as they are considered the 'norm'

It's not just the breed standards, it's in the regulations for the canine controls.

From the DogsACT Regs:

7.8 Dogs Improperly Prepared.

A dog is considered to be improperly prepared if:

1. The natural colour or shade of natural colour or the natural markings of the dog have been altered or changed by the use of any substance whatsoever;

2. Any substance, preparation, powder or fluid used for cleaning has been applied to and remains on the dog during exhibition to such an extent as to deceive or be likely to deceive a judge whether it was applied with intent to deceive or not;

3. Any cutting, piercing, breaking by force, or any kind of operation or act which destroys the tissues of the ears or alters their natural formation or carriage, or shortens the tail or alters the carriage of the tail, has been practiced, provided however, that shortening the tail shall be allowable in the case of breeds accepted by.

4. At no time may a Non Registrable Docked Dog be exhibited or shown at an exhibition or show.

I have a little saying - "The fairy Godmother doesn't have a magic wand - you have to find the Vet who does". Don't waste your money putting it in writing because you will be out of pocket.

Would be interesting if they brought in drug testing like they do with greyhounds - how many dogs would be withdrawn?

Some cheating is far more obvious than others and what is more surprising are the ones who are doing it....

There are varying degrees of cheating... surgery is on the top end of the scale... painting nails or using copious amounts of hairspray are at the bottom end.

For me doping is pretty close to surgery in the heinous stakes because temperament is a serious issue for the future of any breed. It's mostly doping them to adjust for excessive shyness or aggression I have concerns with. Giving them some caffeine for extra show ring zip and sparkle isn't something I'd do but it's not as disturbing.

Wow, this thread certainly took a turn for the worst over the past day.

I completely agree with you Magpie. While some people may just dope their dog up for shows and have no intention of breeding it (still wrong though IMO), there are an alarming number of people who do breed from known timid/aggressive dogs.

They do it because they think it's not that bad because the drugs will 'manage' it. A few generations of 'managing' it and it will spiral out of control until you have a litter of drug resistant fear biters who need to be PTS.

A bit of extra 'zip' is ok, that has nothing to do with their temperament, but drugging them to take away an actual fault is not good.

Off topic, and I apologise!

Please excuse my ignorance, but I've never been involved in showing of any kind and I have never heard of this before, nor did it ever occur to me as a possibility. How prevalent is this practice? This is a concern for me! How would I know that dogs I have seen haven't been drugged/sedated in some way? Temperament of parents is something that has been very important to me in my search for a puppy.

[SkySoaringMagpie]

Please excuse my ignorance, but I've never been involved in showing of any kind and I have never heard of this before, nor did it ever occur to me as a possibility. How prevalent is this practice? This is a concern for me! How would I know that dogs I have seen haven't been drugged/sedated in some way? Temperament of parents is something that has been very important to me in my search for a puppy.

Like most things mentioned in this thread, there are more accusations than people doing it. That said, people still do it.

There is no fool proof way to avoid any kind of problem, but I think the best advertisement for good temperament is what other puppy buyers say about that breeder's puppies. If you can find people who have companion puppies from a breeder and they are happy with the temperament, chances are much better that you will be happy too. I know a lot of people say to meet parents but with artificial insemination etc sometimes that isn't practical.

[ravenau1]

Please excuse my ignorance, but I've never been involved in showing of any kind and I have never heard of this before, nor did it ever occur to me as a possibility. How prevalent is this practice? This is a concern for me! How would I know that dogs I have seen haven't been drugged/sedated in some way? Temperament of parents is something that has been very important to me in my search for a puppy.

Like most things mentioned in this thread, there are more accusations than people doing it. That said, people still do it.

There is no fool proof way to avoid any kind of problem, but I think the best advertisement for good temperament is what other puppy buyers say about that breeder's puppies. If you can find people who have companion puppies from a breeder and they are happy with the temperament, chances are much better that you will be happy too. I know a lot of people say to meet parents but with artificial insemination etc sometimes that isn't practical.

Thanks SkySoaringMagpie !

[Darkrai]

Well, yes, tail taping would come under this. It is a defining breed characteristic, the ring in the tail, and should be there naturally.

The dog should be assessed on its merits as future breeding stock - something deliberately relegated far down the list of priorities in in the pursuit of winning. All the cosmetic alterations are changing the phenotype - breeders are no longer selecting for natural, genetically present traits.

Peeves me no end, I am not even a breeder but am fed up with the changing phenotype aided by ridiculously elaborate titifying... blech to the over-groomed wonders swanning around the ring!

somone came to mind

[SkySoaringMagpie]

Well, yes, tail taping would come under this. It is a defining breed characteristic, the ring in the tail, and should be there naturally.

The dog should be assessed on its merits as future breeding stock - something deliberately relegated far down the list of priorities in in the pursuit of winning. All the cosmetic alterations are changing the phenotype - breeders are no longer selecting for natural, genetically present traits.

While I'm a fellow fan of the "old fashioned" 'ghan and I agree with your overall sentiment I'd put a "some" before breeders in your sentence. There are still breeders producing functional hounds.

I've only seen a judge physically check tails by running them through his hands in this breed once - was an international judge. Perhaps if you have a trained eye you can pick it without having to touch the tail. I can't, but I'm no expert Lord knows. The 'ghans are not my department

[pebbles]

A few incidents I've witnessed over the years - Big Royal Show, well known exhibitor, overseas Judge, placed the dog second in a big class then followed the exhibitor to the edge of ring and said "see me later, I'll tell you the right dye to use'!

Years ago the false testes were like hard rubber balls - sitting behind the judging table I heard the Judge tell the exhibitor of a winning dog "You should get rid of the good one there's too much difference"!

A certain heavy coated Spitz breed was winning well but some of us had noticed that the exhibitor had the dog fidgeting when the Judges were going over it. Then one day a Judge actually held the dog still and the tail was pinned to it's back.

I have photos of a top winning Affie as a baby. Broad white stripe down the chest of a black dog. Strange - photos taken later, stripe had gone!

These are incidents from many years ago so it's nothing new