Cheating

[whippets]

I still don't buy the 3 testicle thing either. How could any exhibitor NOT notice that their dog had 3 testicles. Especially in a dog like a whippet. It would be like a bunch of grapes hanging between 2 back legs.

[nabs]

I still don't buy the 3 testicle thing either. How could any exhibitor NOT notice that their dog had 3 testicles. Especially in a dog like a whippet. It would be like a bunch of grapes hanging between 2 back legs.

:D

[Bisart Dobes]

On the subject of cheating there are many in our breed who do dye their dogs masks black. Two years ago bitch shown at specialty with very grey face. Few weeks later she arrives with a fully sprayed on black face. Same exhibitor showed a dog that was put to the end of the line at a previous specialty because of his artificial face. Good friend of mine bred the dog and was also horrified the person left a hand print on the side of the dogs face! To this day exhibitor is showing a dog with varying shades of black on his muzzle. Just depends if she remembers to do the face or not I guess

Years ago a friend who used to breed danes told me a story about dying dogs coats. She is a hairdresser and insists that hair dye will not stay in dogs coats. But anyway I think from memory it was Canberra Royal or Specialty (a bigger show anyway) and this Harlequin Dane Bitch was in the ring for either BIG or BISS when it started to rain . Well ofcourse her coat dideth runeth :D . The handler took a while to realise it was happening and then very quickly removed the dog from the ring. Can't remember what she said about consequences coming from this - it was more a discussion about dying coats and how it doesn't work with dog hair no matter what you use.

[Gayle.]

Didn't know they had prosthetic balls for dogs.......

I still find some of these claims far fetched. The human mind can be quite fanciful.

Ask a repo specialist. Near impossible for a dogs testicle to come down many months / years later. There is a certain time frame while the dog is growing that the testicle can be brought down. The tube that holds it is so thin. Sorry but it basically would be like sh!ting a watermelon. Also there would not be room with the prosthetic in to come down!

You would think while the so called vet is putting the prosthetic in he would check to see the state of the retained testicle.!!!! I don't buy the story. Any vet worth his salt would not leave a retained testicle inside a dog as it leads to cancer.

Obviously you've never had a baby.

[nabs]

Didn't know they had prosthetic balls for dogs.......

I still find some of these claims far fetched. The human mind can be quite fanciful.

Ask a repo specialist. Near impossible for a dogs testicle to come down many months / years later. There is a certain time frame while the dog is growing that the testicle can be brought down. The tube that holds it is so thin. Sorry but it basically would be like sh!ting a watermelon. Also there would not be room with the prosthetic in to come down!

You would think while the so called vet is putting the prosthetic in he would check to see the state of the retained testicle.!!!! I don't buy the story. Any vet worth his salt would not leave a retained testicle inside a dog as it leads to cancer.

Obviously you've never had a baby.

I have had two

[~Myschafis~]

What about stain removal with bleaching agents etc? That is altering etc, I guess any thing other than a basic shampoo/conditioner would be considered cheating as well.

Miss B - I think its totally up to the individual, if I was that put out by what someone was doing and I thought they were cheating, I would probably confront them first.

However in previous experience having seen a similiar situation before, generally the person doing the complaining was frequently beaten by the 'cheater' and they were not on speaking terms.

Unfortunately it often seems to be a case of sour grapes

[oakway]

I still don't buy the 3 testicle thing either. How could any exhibitor NOT notice that their dog had 3 testicles. Especially in a dog like a whippet. It would be like a bunch of grapes hanging between 2 back legs.

Well it would look pretty weird moving away. ;)

As I said previously I have heard this story so many times before about

false Testes. I have heard it about every breeder that somebody wants to start a rumour about.

[ellz]

I'd be wealthy if I listened every time I've been told that story!

BTW, they're called "Neuticles" ;)

[Miss B]

My opinion doesnt matter & if i was that curious i would have asked the person plain & simple.

You honestly think they would 'fess up if in fact they were cheating? ;)

you suspect the toenail pigment is incorrect and that is important for you - it might not be *as* important for the other exhibitor.

It doesn't bother me personally if the dog has white nails, every dog has it's faults. And lack of pigment in the nails is really not a big deal compared to structural faults or incorrect temperament etc.

[Miss B]

However in previous experience having seen a similiar situation before, generally the person doing the complaining was frequently beaten by the 'cheater' and they were not on speaking terms.

Unfortunately it often seems to be a case of sour grapes ;)

My boy has very nice pigment, and has never competed against this dog, so I can assure you it's not sour grapes

[Dogsfevr]

showdog' post My opinion doesnt matter & if i was that curious i would have asked the person plain & simple

You honestly think they would 'fess up if in fact they were cheating? ;)

Maybe not but better than talking behind there back on an open forum without any facts claiming there cheating .

[Miss B]

Bit hard to "talk about someone" on an open forum when you haven't named names. What of all the other stories in this thread about unnamed exhibitors who have supposedly cheated? Anyhow my original question was genuine but somehow it's been turned into something it's not. I think my question has been answered, thanks to all who replied.

[~Myschafis~]

Miss B - Sorry, must've been poorly worded, I didn't intend you had started this with 'sour grapes' ;) I was just referring to the times in the past I had seen someone actually complain about said dog. Seems they had a personal dislike for the other person etc.

I can see it was a genuine question, one in which I think your more than entitled to ask, I think most people would just over look it?

Unfortunately sometimes the dog world brings out the 'best' in everyone

[Miss B]

No probs Myschafis ;)

[Shaar]

What about stain removal with bleaching agents etc? That is altering etc, I guess any thing other than a basic shampoo/conditioner would be considered cheating as well.

Miss B - I think its totally up to the individual, if I was that put out by what someone was doing and I thought they were cheating, I would probably confront them first.

However in previous experience having seen a similiar situation before, generally the person doing the complaining was frequently beaten by the 'cheater' and they were not on speaking terms.

Unfortunately it often seems to be a case of sour grapes

Full on bleaching, as in changing a dog from cream to white is not good.

Stain removing or color 'enhancing' products are fine though. They aren't altering the true color of the dog, just adding an extra 'zing'.

Color enhancing shampoos don't actually contain any dyes. And stain removing products are just removing something that wouldn't normally be there (ie: if you have a little bugger of a chinese crested who wees on his front legs!!!)

[Dracdog]

This is from the Offences in Relation to Exhibitions section of the Dogs Qld Rule book

n. if any dye, colouring, lightening or darkening matter has been used and remains on any part of the dog

at the time of exhibition:–

(1) The Show Manager or his delegate may at any time order the examination of a dog for

identification or other purpose by a person appointed by him and call for such evidence as he may

require;

(2) The Show Manager or his delegate shall have full power and authority to take possession of any

dog for the purpose of determining whether an offence has been committed pursuant to

Rule 280 n of these Rules and for that purpose may take or cause to be made any test or tests

including the taking of any specimen including a hair sample and provided that such test,

specimen or sample shall be made or taken in aseptic conditions and where practicable in the

presence of the owner or handler of the dog PROVIDED THAT where a Veterinary Surgeon

is available such specimen shall be taken by him; and PROVIDED FURTHER that any specimen

taken as aforesaid shall be sealed in a satisfactory manner; (Samples of hair taken should not

deface the dog’s coat, small samples from several places will provide adequate results).

(3) the expense of any such examination, test or specimen pursuant to the preceding paragraphs of

this Rule shall be paid:

(a) if as a result of such examination, test or specimen it is determined that an offence against

these Rules has been committed by the owner or handler of the dog, or,

(b) if it is determined that no offence has been committed, by the person (other than the Show

Manager or his delegate or other show official) at whose request the examination, test or

specimen was made.

(4) Any person who prevents, frustrates, delays or interferes with the making of any such

examination, test or specimen or attempts to do so shall be guilty of an offence against these

Rules.

o. If any cutting, piercing, breaking by force, or any other kind of operation or act which destroys the tissues

of the ears or alters their natural formation or which alters the carriage of a dog or which shortens his tail

or alters the carriage of the tail, has been performed on the dog, provided however, that shortening of the

tail shall be allowable in the case of any recognised breed as permitted by the standard, and provided

further that it shall be permissible to cut or trim the coat or hair of the dog and remove any dewclaws.

p. If any act (other than these acts specifically permitted by the preceding paragraph of this Rule) is

performed upon or in relation to a dog which alters or which could result in altering the natural

appearance, characteristics of behaviour of the dog. In this paragraph the word “act” shall have the

widest possible meaning and shall not be read down by reference to any other ground for disqualification

mentioned in this Rule PROVIDED THAT a dog may be handled in the Show Ring in the manner

appropriate to the breed.

q. Dental treatment of a dog other than restorative treatment of traumatised teeth dental caries, pulp death,

correction of miscellaneous disorders such as retained deciduous teeth, enamel hypoplasia and enamel

staining, are approved, and would not effect the showing or breeding of a dog.

[Shaar]

If any cutting, piercing, breaking by force, or any other kind of operation or act which destroys the tissues

of the ears or alters their natural formation

Hmmm, I know this would be referring to cropping, but wouldn't ear taping fall under this category as well?

(just curious)

[ellz]

If any cutting, piercing, breaking by force, or any other kind of operation or act which destroys the tissues

of the ears or alters their natural formation

Hmmm, I know this would be referring to cropping, but wouldn't ear taping fall under this category as well?

(just curious)

Technically no, because it is non-invasive, ethically....well that depends upon which part of the fence you sit on.

[Fit for a King]

"n. if any dye, colouring, lightening or darkening matter has been used and remains on any part of the dog

at the time of exhibition:–" - the fact that several different dog shampoo companies now include dyes in their shampoos makes this even more interesting......especially as at least one was designed by show people for show dogs.....should we consider that cheating?

Edited June 28, 2010 by Fit for a King

[morsha_68]

I have had many dogs whose nails have darkened up to 6/8 months & not the same breed.

So in your opinion it would be possible for the nails to go from completely white at 10 weeks of age, to completely black at 12 weeks?

I have honestly never heard of that happening, that's all.

It has never happened to my dogs and I have had the breed for 16 years ,and yes I have blackened my dogs nails in the earlyer days but not anymore .

My main concern is when you know that breeders/exititors physicaly alter there dogs eg Teeth/bite ,testicals and tail .