Question About Papers

[ravenau1]

Hi everyone ;)

I'm new to the concept of Limited Register. I am currently making enquiries to breeders for a puppy, and I have a question. If I purchase a puppy on Limited Register, should I receive papers from the breeder? I'm not sure if this is standard practice or not. One breeder will supply papers only with a puppy bought on Main Register, and copies of the pedigrees of the parents if the puppy is on Limited Register (as most seem to be)

What would be the advantage of actually having the Limited Register papers? If you're not planning to show or breed is it important?

Thanks!

[SparkyTansy]

I actually cant see why the breeder wouldnt' want to supply the puppy with it's limited register papers unless they are not planning on paying to register it at all. In WA you must register all your puppies and yes in WA you don't need to give out the papers however I can't see why you wouldn't?

the benefit of having these papers ravenau1 is that you can join DogsWest as a full member and you can do dog sports and competitions with your dog. If you don't have papers, you will have to join as an associate member and your dog will not have it's registered name listed. By having the papers it is also a confirmation to you that your pup is 100% purebred and you have that paper to prove it.

[MolassesLass]

I'd never buy a pedigree pup where I wasn't going to be supplied with the papers - I'd spend less money and get a rescue.

[Greytmate]

If your dog is an amstaff, the benefit of papers is that you can prove it isn't a pitbull, which are illegal in some areas.

[Tassie]

I've been supplied with the papers for the LR pups I have bought - the LR Certificate of Registration (dog's official paper) is red, while the Main Register one is blue. Both have the dog's registered number (Canine Control in your State) and the Microchip Number and record of the details of the breeder and the registered owner, as well as the pup's sire and dam and grandsires and granddams.

And as Sparky Tansy says, that means that you can compete in any of the disciplines open to your dog's breed as a pure bred dog of that breed, with the exception of conformation (showing). LR also means the dog is not to be bred from.

AFAIK, breeders should offer a full explanation of what the Limited Register registration means, and I think in some States at least, have to get the buyer's agreement that they are aware of what the LR means.

[ravenau1]

SparkyTansy - Thanks. I am interested in pursuing some dog sports in the future so I think it would be important for that.

molasseslass - Yes, I must admit I am reluctant to pay several thousand dollars for a pup and not recieve any sort of official documentation. However I do like this breeder and the dogs very much, so it's hard to know what to do.

Greytmate - I saw some Amstaff puppies for sale in a pet shop yesterday and wondered about that. I presume that they would have had no papers. Have to say not a pet shop we normally frequent but we were in need of some emergency fish supplies and our regular store was out.

What does it cost to get the papers? Perhaps if I offered to pay for them?

[ravenau1]

I've been supplied with the papers for the LR pups I have bought - the LR Certificate of Registration (dog's official paper) is red, while the Main Register one is blue. Both have the dog's registered number (Canine Control in your State) and the Microchip Number and record of the details of the breeder and the registered owner, as well as the pup's sire and dam and grandsires and granddams.

And as Sparky Tansy says, that means that you can compete in any of the disciplines open to your dog's breed as a pure bred dog of that breed, with the exception of conformation (showing). LR also means the dog is not to be bred from.

AFAIK, breeders should offer a full explanation of what the Limited Register registration means, and I think in some States at least, have to get the buyer's agreement that they are aware of what the LR means.

Tassie, thanks ;)

[megan_]

I would run a mile from any breeder who said they weren't necessary or had the hide to ask you to pay more for them. They would automatically fall under the catagory of "unethical". In many states what the breeder is suggesting would be against the CC rules.

[Bjelkier]

No way would I buy a dog on limited without it's papers!

And if someone told me to pay extra for the papers I would be running a mile.

[MolassesLass]

What does it cost to get the papers? Perhaps if I offered to pay for them?

It costs $16.30 to transfer the LR papers to you from the breeder in WA.

But I would be finding another breeder because they are even offering this no-papers dodgyness.

Edited June 24, 2010 by molasseslass

[Dogsfevr]

in WA that is common practise BUT amongst the ethical Am Staff breeders they most certainly sell there pups with limited papers & all the info to ensure the dog has full ID with the council due to BSL

[SparkyTansy]

megan it isn't against the CC rules in WA - we have to register all live puppies but we don't have to give out the papers for them. The rule was only fairly recently changed over from the rule that stated you didn't have to register all puppies, so I think that the mindset of some breeders is the same.

Techinically, the extra cost shouldn't come into it ifyou want limited registration because their puppies should be registered. What you need to do is tell the breeder that you are interested in dog sports and would require the paperwork in order to join as a full member so as to not hve to register their purebred puppy as an associate dog.

If you find that this breeder appears ethical and fair in other ways, don't write them off, but do make your needs clear when it comes to getting the papers.

Edited to add: because i didn't realise that the breed was an amstaff - i'd definitely ensure that the papers were provided in this case.

Edited June 24, 2010 by SparkyTansy

[SpikesPuppy]

What I don't understand is the benefit to the breeder in not supplying the LR papers??? You've already paid to register the dog... what's handing over the papers going to do?? If you feel the buyer is going to pull some kind of dodgy on you - refuse them a puppy ;)

[ravenau1]

Thanks everyone for your advice and replies, I appreciate it Certainly gives me some food for thought and some more information to proceed with.

I have to say that I don't believe that the breeder is 'dodgy' at all, the breeder 'ticks all the boxes' so to speak and is lovely and I believe ethical and committed to the breed.

I apologise for any confusion in mentioning Amstaffs :D the puppy I am interested in isn't an Amstaff, I just mentioned it because I had this same discussion with my Hubby that Greytmate mentioned, after we saw the Amstaff puppies in the pet store, that you would need the Limited Register papers for that breed.

[OSoSwift]

I would definately be asking for the papers and of course transfered into your name. There is no reason why they shouldn't do it.

My dog was bought with limited register papers and I asked to make sure they would be transfered to my name, no worries all done.

[nobul]

RUN away as fast as you can IMO.

Limited Register papers are proof you dog is a pedigreed purebred, it has a whole family tree with all sorts of information if you wanted it.

Are they really registered breeders? or did you get the spill about those on main register are really a lot more expensive and because you only want a pet it doesnt matter if you dont get main register

Buyer beware, it does not cost a lot of money for the papers themselves

I rang a "breeder" about a litter of pups in the paper a while ago , now this twit had all the answers but i know for a fact she is NOT a registered breeder. She basically said that she is selling them with out the papers at the moment becasue she was moving house and would have to dig up the paperwork, but if i did want them the puppy would cost an extra $500. sadly people would have bought this story not knowing better.

They always sound lovely and convincing and have all the answers, have you checked that they are actually a CURRENT registered breeder? and what was the reasoning for not supplying the limited register papers?

[Shaar]

When the breeder registers the pups on limited register, they get a copy of the pedigree regardless.

Charging extra just to hand over a piece of paper is dodgy beyond belief.

When mum sold pups on limit register, the new owners got a copy of the pedigree/papers. They weren't interested in dog sports like you, they just wanted the piece of paper to show that their dog was from a good breeder and was registered with the kennel club (even pets have 'show' names) Plus it's always nice to show your friends your dogs family tree.

Edited June 24, 2010 by Shaar

[ravenau1]

Thanks for your replies

nobul, the breeder is definately registered, and as far as I'm aware there is no price difference between a main registered puppy and a limited register puppy, only that mains registered puppies are difficult to get (as I understand seems to commonly be the case among breeders).

The breeder hasn't said to me that papers will cost extra, I just though that if they were expensive if I offered to pay it might make it easier, but they don't seem expensive.

Shaar, I can see now how important the papers are, even with a dog who is a pet rather than a show dog.

I will speak to the breeder again now I'm clearer on what is usual etc.

[megan_]

A positive about he breeder is that main papers are hard to get. Some breeders put all their dogs on main, even if they are not breeing quality.