rajacadoo Posted June 22, 2010 Share Posted June 22, 2010 I am totally confused about whether to have calcium on hand for the delivery of my expected litter, or not... I just cant decide It seems that a lot of people are starting to use it AFTER the delivery of the first pup, as a nicer alternative to Oxytocin. Just when the bitch is seeming a bit tired, after pushing for a while etc, etc... I dont like calcium given to any dog as an additive, at all. Long story, but I over-supplmented a puppy bitch, ACD, with it, and at 6 months she was diagnosed with OCD, which may or may not have been caused by our over-use of it, as well as environmental and perhaps a genetic predisposition to it as well I now have a real thing about giving it at all... Thoughts and ideas please ??? Help me to decide if I need to buy some tomorrow ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chocolate Posted June 22, 2010 Share Posted June 22, 2010 I am totally confused about whether to have calcium on hand for the delivery of my expected litter, or not... I just cant decide It seems that a lot of people are starting to use it AFTER the delivery of the first pup, as a nicer alternative to Oxytocin. Just when the bitch is seeming a bit tired, after pushing for a while etc, etc... I dont like calcium given to any dog as an additive, at all. Long story, but I over-supplmented a puppy bitch, ACD, with it, and at 6 months she was diagnosed with OCD, which may or may not have been caused by our over-use of it, as well as environmental and perhaps a genetic predisposition to it as well I now have a real thing about giving it at all... Thoughts and ideas please ??? Help me to decide if I need to buy some tomorrow ... Raja, I never use oxytocin. I just give my girl a nice drink of milk mid whelping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ellz Posted June 22, 2010 Share Posted June 22, 2010 You should know how I feel about it by now my bondaged one. Very handy to have on hand for use during whelping and it will not have any long term effects simply because of the fact that the bitch will use it for either stimulation of contractions or milk let down, or both and very little, if any, will remain in the system after her work is done. Certainly no need to continue with calcium supplementation after whelping if you are already feeding a diet that contains sufficient naturally sourced calcium. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joan of Arc Posted June 22, 2010 Share Posted June 22, 2010 have calcium on hand but have rarely ever used it. Mid whelping I usually give my girls a drink of warm milk with a little honey in it for energy. After whelping I feed yoghurt, cheese, Wambaroo Milk, rec, all good sources of calcium Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oakway Posted June 22, 2010 Share Posted June 22, 2010 You should know how I feel about it by now my bondaged one.Very handy to have on hand for use during whelping and it will not have any long term effects simply because of the fact that the bitch will use it for either stimulation of contractions or milk let down, or both and very little, if any, will remain in the system after her work is done. Certainly no need to continue with calcium supplementation after whelping if you are already feeding a diet that contains sufficient naturally sourced calcium. What ellez has told is totally correct. People don't get hung up on calcium. If you feed dry there is plenty in that, if you feed a natural diet with plenty of bone that is also sufficient. The calcium given during whelping is to help stimulate the contractions nothing more. Most of us use sandoz because it appears to be absorbed in the system the quickest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpikesPuppy Posted June 22, 2010 Share Posted June 22, 2010 I was advised to give a syringe-full (a ml I think..) of liquid calcium (sandoz) to my bitch between pups by my bitch's breeder, and this was also backed up by my repro vet, so I did, and whether it helped or not, the entire process was smooth and easy from start to finish (my bitch also a maiden). It certainly did no harm to her or the pups and she loved the taste Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShesaLikeableBiBear Posted June 22, 2010 Share Posted June 22, 2010 (edited) I gave a ml of calcium sandoz twice to Bree and she had the awful squits, spoke to both my vet and the owner of the stud dog and both agreed it could have been that which upset her. We are feeding Nutro puppy food to her, together with her regular home-made diet, and she has heaps of milk, the pups are porkers. Bree had to have oxytocin, under vet supervision, as she was unable to push the pups out of her own. Edited June 22, 2010 by Hesapandabear Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeamSnag Posted June 22, 2010 Share Posted June 22, 2010 My girl had it after every pup Mind u there was 2 hours between pups! I agree spikespuppy... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebanne Posted June 22, 2010 Share Posted June 22, 2010 I had calcium, glucose and oxytocin on hand ready for Fern but she had a c-section so wasn't needed. I will have all 3 ready next time and use the calcium and glucose as a matter of course with the oxy as back up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shellbyville Posted June 22, 2010 Share Posted June 22, 2010 I have calcium on hand if needing during and after whelping only. With some bitches I don't use it at all, with my last bitch who whelped I gave it to her during her whelping (2nd litter) and then after for a few days. She was a nervous mum the first time around and i didn't really think to use it. With her 2nd litter though I started giving her about 10 mls every hour or so after the first pup was born and then gave her a few doses daily, days after whelping and she coped much better as a mum! I can't say the calcium helped, but I would definitely use it again on an anxious or tired bitch during and after whelping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christina Posted June 22, 2010 Share Posted June 22, 2010 I was under the impression after asking a vet ( way back so maybe opinions have changed now) that giving calcium orally to assist a bitches contractions once they have started is of no use at all. They need the oxytocin injection for it to have any effect in time. The idea of giving calcium during in pregnancy is outdated now as it seems it interferes with the natural production & causes problems. I suppose its one of things where you have to do the research & decide for yourself. Rather confusing debate really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ellz Posted June 22, 2010 Share Posted June 22, 2010 Christina, thinking has changed dramatically in the past few years. It is now understood and accepted by most modern vets that calcium has a valid place during whelping. It is also more gentle on the uterus than oxytocin but can have similar effects on a uterus that is already "irritable". Oxytocin administered at some parts of the labour is like using a machine gun to hunt rabbits. The automatic use of oxytocin and other synthetic hormones isn't as widely accepted these days at all, and neither is the routine dosage of artificial calcium during gestation and lactation or the feeding of puppy foods to pregnant bitches. Many of these things came about due to the lack of understanding of the benefits of naturally occurring chemicals within the body at various stages of the life of the dog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rajacadoo Posted June 23, 2010 Author Share Posted June 23, 2010 Thanks everyone for the input, I really appreciate it. It certainly is being used far more widely than I thought... Christina what you have stated is absolutely my belief too, BUT, maybe I am being outdated, and calcium is the way to go. It does seem to divide people in their thinking... The way my Vet explained it, (and I need to say this wasnt a repro Vet, just a G.P Vet ), was by giving calcium during the whelping process, can interfere with the bitches ability to produce her own adequate amounts of calcium, directly after delivery, so leaving her a sitting duck for problems... Her body is expecting the calcium supps to continue, so it takes a while for her to start producing her own calcium . The other thing she mentioned was it takes so long for the body to process the oral calcium, its of little use at the time when the bitch needs it... The more I read, the more Im confused Ok, so if I am going to go with the calcium, what would be the min and max mls I could give her, if she needs s bit of an urge along ??? Its for a Basenji bitch about 10 kilo's normally, or 12kgs on Mondays weigh in... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ellz Posted June 23, 2010 Share Posted June 23, 2010 was by giving calcium during the whelping process, can interfere with the bitches ability to produce her own adequate amounts of calcium, directly after delivery, so leaving her a sitting duck for problems... Her body is expecting the calcium supps to continue, so it takes a while for her to start producing her own calcium . The other thing she mentioned was it takes so long for the body to process the oral calcium, its of little use at the time when the bitch needs it... I really don't like to disagree with your vet, especially not when you are so stressed lovey, but what she has said is a crock of you-know-what. The body doesn't pre-empt its needs, it metabolises what it actually has within so it will use what it needs and no more and if it needs more, it will react with symptoms. A bitch in labour has a massive calcium drain going on and requires every bit of assistance that can be given to it. Oral calcium is very quickly absorbed...think about a diabetic in sugar shock...it is powders that are not readily absorbed and which usually reappear as a lovely white coating on the output! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeamSnag Posted June 23, 2010 Share Posted June 23, 2010 I was giving my bitch a teaspoon of it.. she loved it she licked it off the spoon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peaceful Posted June 23, 2010 Share Posted June 23, 2010 RAJACADOO says...." was by giving calcium during the whelping process, can interfere with the bitches ability to produce her own adequate amounts of calcium, directly after delivery, so leaving her a sitting duck for problems... Her body is expecting the calcium supps to continue, so it takes a while for her to start producing her own calcium . The other thing she mentioned was it takes so long for the body to process the oral calcium, its of little use at the time when the bitch needs it..." ......What your vet has said is true if the bitch is given supplemental calcium during her pregnancy and can lead to her developing eclampsia.... not true of during labour though.....she can utilise the liquid calcium and it does help with contractions. The puppies nursing from their mama also makes her body produce natural oxytocin so helps to keep the contractions going. If oxytocin is given BEFORE any puppies are born it can rupture her uterus.....a big NO NO.... 2 different vets I have been to in the middle of the night whelping emergencies have given oxytocin before any puppies were delivered and both times resulted in dead puppies and 1 time almost a dead mama bitch as well. Will never allow a vet to do that to one of my bitches ever again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rajacadoo Posted June 23, 2010 Author Share Posted June 23, 2010 (edited) Thank you to everyone for the info, I do really appreciate it, (still hoping peeps will still reply in this thread, though !!!)... It seems that having my last litter about 6-7 years ago, has stopped my repro knowledge at that level ... I thought I was pretty up on things, clearly I wasnt .... It appears that I am pretty much very behind in my info re this. Everything about this pregnancy has been soooooooooo different to my last few litters, its been an incredible learning curve . TeamSnag, you gave a teaspoon to your bitch, roughly what weight would she be, so I can work out what I would give my girl ??? Peaceful, your info makes perfect sense... I know that there is no Oxytocin till after the first baby, is it the same with the calcium, none till first pup is born ??? Ellz, all I can say is "THANK DOG" you will be on hand for me, in the middle of the night while this is all going on... My voice of reason, Mr R, is working nights, he has another 2, so expecting her to get going either tonight or tomorrow night :D Thinking the EEK emoticon will be used a lot when things start ... ETA... I do have 2 doses of Oxytocin on hand, I really hope I wont need it Edited June 23, 2010 by rajacadoo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ellz Posted June 23, 2010 Share Posted June 23, 2010 Lovey, I'm here! We'll get through it and you'll have some lovely new 'senji bubbas to admire! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rajacadoo Posted June 23, 2010 Author Share Posted June 23, 2010 Yeah... 6 of the little buggers, I mean bubba's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peaceful Posted June 23, 2010 Share Posted June 23, 2010 Peaceful, your info makes perfect sense... I know that there is no Oxytocin till after the first baby, is it the same with the calcium, none till first pup is born ??? I'm not sure....but I give my girls some if they are straining and nothing much is happening....it seems to work and have no ill effects....certainly wont rupture a uterus or anything horrible like that.... Only give oxytocin if the vet advise you too (but not before pups) no matter what they say Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts