Pepper Just Diagnosed With Kidney Disease

[yellowgirl]

Well I'm in a bit of a state of shock at the moment. Banshee was just diagnosed with Pancreatitis and now the vet has just rung and said the results of Pepper's tests show that she has kidney disease! ;) . She's lost 3/4 of her kidney function . She's 9 years old so that may be a contributing factor and it's possible that the Previcox pain relief she had for her impacted anal gland may have been what tipped her over the edge.

I need help with her food. The vet recommended the Hills K/D Prescription dry. $66.95 for 4.5kg, ordinarily I could order it through my shop, but I can't with this one as it's a vet only line.

Does anyone know of alternative preservative-free dry or fresh foods that I can use?

Also does anyone know what are the levels of protien, etc that I need to stay under? I'm about to ring the vet again with more questions, but any advice from DOLers who have dogs with kidney disease would be appreciated.

[persephone]

No advice ..just a ;)

You will be an expert in special dietary cooking ! two crook chooks needing extra care ... Thinking of you.

[yellowgirl]

Thanks persephone, I think I do need a hug at the moment. Have been madly printing out everything I can find on pancreatitis and kidney disease... naturally the printer just ran out of ink. Currently treading a very fine line before bursting into girly tears ;)

[greytpets]

My girl was diagnosed with kidney disease 6 months ago. She wouldn't eat Hill K/D but I found that Royal Canin also make prescription diets & Sally likes their Renal dry food & is doing really well on it. In the 6 months since diagnosis she has actually put on weight & no longer seems to be bothered by the nausea she had pre-diagnosis.

It costs me $35 for a 2kilo bag but is worth it I think. Can can only buy it from a vet but they have a loyality card so after buying 10 you get 1 free.

I know what you are going through. It's the problem with having dogs around the same age. Two weeks ago I had 6 dogs, 5 of them older. One died suddenly, one is on borrowed time, one is sick & Sally has kidney disease (& is the healthyest, lol).

to you. I hope things get better for you.

[Sheridan]

My advice is not to mess around with other diets. The prescription diets (whether Hills or Royal Canin or whatever) have what your dog needs. You'd otherwise be guessing.

[Her Majesty Dogmad]

For kidneys I wouldn't risk trying to cook something up myself, I'd only use the prescription diet, it's a very tricky disease.

I had a dog with kidney disease and she thrived on a combination of the diet plus Chinese herbs - I went to the All Natural Vet in Russell Lea. My vet faxed them through the blood tests and they prescribed the herbs.

I wouldn't have believed it unless I'd seen it for myself. She went from a very sick little dog to thriving with glossy hair, running around.

My vets had said that even with the special diet, she only had weeks to live. Once she went on the herbs, she lived for nearly 12 months in great health until a stomach virus was too much for her 13 or 14 year old body to cope with.

The All Natural Vet is not cheap but they do phone consultations (once they've received the vet results) for people who live too far away and mail out the herbs. Then you can just get repeats.

To me, the cost was well worth it for the spectacular results I had with my little girl, she had been sick for a very long time, living for 6 mths or more in a no kill pound with no vet treatment. I don't think anyone knew what was wrong. She was baldy, had bad teeth and constant black diarrhoea - it should have been investigated long before I got her.

Edited June 22, 2010 by dogmad

[karly101]

In the case of kidney disease the prescription diets really do cover it very well.. and do make a significant difference imo ..

If you do want to do some home cooking there is a recipe in 'Small Animal Clinical Nutrition' - for a low protein, low phosphorus diet suitable for renal disease that is nutritionally complete...(I'd also add fish oil to it which is in the Hills k/d) I checked it out for my friend but she decided to stick with Hills and her dog (a lab) is still going well a year later. Your vet may have a copy of this book...if not I think it is online somewhere.

[yellowgirl]

Hi Greytpets, sounds like you've been having a pretty tough time with your crew . So sorry to hear that you recently lost one of your dogs. Glad to hear that Sally is doing well on the Royal Canin.

Hugs to you and the 5 furkids

Hi Sheridan, I've done a fair bit of research since yesterday. I'm not a fan of any of the Hills products, but of course if it's the only one that provides what Pepper needs then it's on the list.

Thank you for that info dogmad. I'm glad your little one had you to look after her in her time of need :D .

Thanks karly101. I don't seem to be able to order the book in Australia. It's listed on a few book sites but no delivery to Aust. I will ask my vet if she has a copy that I could have a look at.

Now, after a lot of research and product comparisons (ingredients and % analysis), I think the best thing for Pepper is a combination of the Tucker Time roll and probably the Hills k/d dry.

She needs low protein, and the phosphorus should be under 0.6%. The TT roll has 14% protein and 0.4% phosphorus (tick).

I had hoped that the Nutro Lite dry food would be suitable, but the phosphorus % isn't listed on the bag, so I rang the company. The Lite has 1-2% phosphorus which I think is too high to take a chance on.

I've just had a look at the Royal Canin Renal dry and the analysis is fine, but the ingredient list seems to have even more corn and wheat than the Hills k/d, so I'm not as keen on that one.

The vet said the TT roll analysis sounded good for Pepper's requirements. I'm picking up a sample of the Hills k/d from the vet tonight and we'll see if Pepper likes it in combination with the TT Roll. She had the roll last night and this morning and she loooooved it. The vet also recommended a fortnightly urine test to keep an eye on Pepper's levels.

The TT Roll will also be good for Banshee (just diagnosed with pancreatitis), as it has 6% fat, along with the Nutro Lite dry food which has 9% fat. I'm pretty sure Tucker Time do a Light roll, so I'll enquire about that as well when I put in my order for the shop this week.

Thanks for your input everyone, always much appreciated

xxx

[stormie]

Yellowgirl this really sucks I really feel for you having two sick like this.

We used to have a Home Made Renal Diet Recipe at our old clinic. From memory, it was actually written by Hills for those who wanted to make their own food.

I'm not sure we have it here at the new clinic though, but I will not go off to research and see what I can find for you

[yellowgirl]

Thanks Stormie, I'm just glad they're with me and I can help to reduce their pain now.

The vet nurse gave me a recipe that they had on hand, but as well as ground beef, rice, egg and calcium carbonate, it also contained 3 slices of bread, so I wasn't real keen on that one. I'm happy to go with pre-made foods as long as they're preservative-free and not too high on the corn and wheat.

I've also ordered a calcium and vitamin D3 suppliment for Pepper which will be here tomorrow.

Do you and your vet think that with the Tucker Time roll, renal dry food and the suppliments, that I've covered everything that Pepper needs?

[stormie]

Ok finally found it..

The following recipe was made available by Hills Petfood Prescription Diets

The recipe is taken from:

"Small Animal Clinical Nutrition, 4th edition.", Editors: Hand, Thatcher, Remillard and Roudebush et al. Making Pet Foods at Home. Topeka, KS: Mark Morris Institute, 2000, 70 authors.

(use beef with regular fat content, NOT lean beef (note S. Fleisher))

Rice, white cooked 237g

Beef, regular cooked* 78g

Egg, large boiled 20g

Bread, white 50g

Calcium carbonate 3g

Salt, iodized 0.5g

Oil, vegetable 3g

Total 390

Nutrient Content (%DMB)+

Dry matter 41

Protein 21.1%

Fat 13.7%

Linoleic acid 1.8%

Crude fiber 1.4%

Calcium 0.43%

Phosphorus 0.22%

Magnesium 0.09%

Sodium 0.33%

Potassium 0.26%

Energy (kcal/100g) 445

*Also feed one human adult vitamin-mineral tablet daily to dogs to ensure all vitamins and trace minerals are included.

May substitute rice baby cereal and flavor either selection with meat broth during cooking.

*Retain the fat.

†Nutrients of concern are bolded.

Directions: Cook the meat component until well done. Cook the starch component separately. Hard boil one large egg. Grind or finely chop meat if necessary. Mix with all other components except the vitamin-mineral supplement. Mix well and serve immediately or cover and refrigerate. Feed the vitamin-mineral supplement with the meal; give as a pill or pulverize and thoroughly mix with food before feeding.

[yellowgirl]

Very sweet of you to find it for me stormie, thank you

[stormie]

just realised you have the same home made diet.

What were her Urea/Creatinine levels?

Did they give you any medication as well?

Ipakitine is one supplement we give to most of our 'renal' clients - its a phosphate binder, so binds to the phosphorus so it's not absorbed as much, and also adds calcium.

[yellowgirl]

Urea 30.6 (normal range 2.5-10.0)

Creatin 0.19 (normal range 0.05-0.15)

Glucose , serum 1.7 (normal range 3.3-6.8)

CA:P ratio 1.1 (normal range 1.2-3.0)

All other biochemistry was in the normal range.

Haematology was normal except for platelet count which was 630 (normal range 200-500)

No medication prescribed. She's still on antibiotics from her impacted anal gland wound.

Is the Ipakitine a vet prescription or a suppliment that I can buy elsewhere? I like the idea of a suppliment that binds the phosphorus. Phosphorus is my enemy now

[perrin]

I came in here looking for information about diabetes.

Sorry to read about your little dogs Yellowgirl. Wishing you much success with your diet.

[yellowgirl]

Thanks perrin, hope your dog is okay and you find the answers you need.

[stormie]

I'm not sure whether you can get it anywhere else. It's not a prescription only drug, but it might be like a pharmacist medicine that is only available through vets.

Maybe speak to your vet about it?

We also put a lot of Renal patients on medications Fortekor or Enalfor. Vets usually have their own preferred treatment regime and tend to stick to what they know, so these are just the medications we would typically give to those suffering renal failure.

[yellowgirl]

Thank you stormie. I'll speak to the vet tonight about whether Pepper needs medications or other suppliments

[yellowgirl]

Here you are Persephone ... My sweet old gremlin girl, Pepper

[Rappie]

Whether or not medication is required would depend on the grade of kidney disease - based on serial blood pressure measurements and measurement of the BUN and creatinine. I'd also ensure a urinalysis was done, a culture and sensitivity is unlikely to add new information but an in house dipstick and USG is something that I would do along with the bloods (ideally collected at the same time).