Severe Pullers

[Guest belgian.blue]

In between finding a trainer and learning how to teach the dog to stop pulling, the dog still needs to be walked.

I find a no-pull harness to be very effective, especially the ones that clip the lead on the front.

I have had good reviews from people using these and ordered two today. Ivy isn't a major puller but she isn't a good walker as she's always alert on finding cats. So going to try the ezy walk harness.

[Cosmolo]

What Erny said. Just because something is quick does not mean there is no foundation. Some of the best training gets fast results- often positive reinforcement training creates rapid learning- its not a bad thing.

[HollyE]

And this is what I'm going to say biggrin.gif.

"Quick fixes" aren't necessarily the shallow foundationless methods you seem to think they might be. From where do you have it that "quick fixes" are equivalent to not having a foundation before you build your house? In fact, perhaps it would be clearer if you're able to explain what you regard as a "quick fix". Maybe we are sharing different images, perceptions, of what a "quick fix" might be.

I see where you're coming from through.

When i see the term quick fix i see someone inflicting pain or using unnecessary tools or un-useful methods in which might minus the dog pulling or the dog might be fine for a few weeks but then the problem comes back up because you're only 'thrown a sheet' over it and hidden it away!

I am standing with my opinion because this is what i believe, i have seen trainers use quick fixes and the problem kept arising, you can say what you wish but it wont change my opinion, my method i use works an absolute treat, this weekend i am creating a lead training video and my demo dog is going to be my 6 month old Siberian husky, keep your eyes open over the weekend for the video!

you might fall off your chair

[corvus]

Positive training was not supposed to be about avoiding aversion. Some current takes on it are ridiculous. Karen Pryor, Bob and Marion Bailey, Gary Wilkes, Ian Dunbar - none of these people ever suggested that training would ever be devoid of aversion.

"Set the dog up for success" and "timing, criteria, rate of reinforcement" - two mantras which anyone claiming to be "positive" (or not) should heed and if followed lead to good, efficient training. Both apply to successfully teaching a dog to walk on a loose leash, especially the "severe" pullers. Dog pulls, you stop straight away. The moment the leash goes loose, you can start again, or click and treat, or whatever you do. Be a robot, another mantra - "training is a mechanical skill" (Bob Bailey). You don't start with high distractions. There is minimal frustration, it's efficient, and there is no avoidance.

Agreed. Proficient positive training doesn't result in the nasty kind of frustration I was talking about. But maybe that's what huski was picturing. I should learn to finish typing my thoughts.

One of these days I'm going to get through to OH that he ought to buy me Bob Bailey's dvd for my birthday/Christmas.

I think most people agree that no-pull harnesses are a good tool to try if one wishes to try a tool to stop pulling. The head collars are a bit of a red herring.

[HollyE]

Wow Aidan2 what a brilliant post! hands down to you!! couldn't have said it better myself although there are a lot of big words there for me oops.

Funny, I taught my dogs they're allowed to pull in a harness, They are in training for sled racing though (in hand, i dont use scooters etc)

[lanabanana]

I just want to say, not all those non-tool ways of dealing with pulling work.

I have owned a number of dogs and all were very easy to train to llw, until my big boy. He was a beautiful walker for a while, now he is a chronic puller.

We tried many different things, including stop start and turn around and walk in circles to absolutely no avail at all. I am by no means professional nor even expert, but I have had a few dogs so I am not totally clueless about teaching a dog to walk nicely on a lead. However, nothing worked for my boy. I would spend the entire walk being dragged, get home and have sore arms and it became so stressful for everyone that my OH refused to come out for a walk with him, I was not enjoying the walk (which to me is a nice way to spend some quality time with your dog - not just for exercise) and I am pretty sure he wasn't liking it much either. It got to the point where his walks had dwindled down to pretty much never. I wanted to walk him, and he sure as hell wanted to go for a walk but it was not an enjoyable experience.

Like someone else said, while you are working on the issue/training you still need to be able to walk your dog!

I started a thread on here asking for advice, and had lots of helpful information. In the end, we purchased a Gentle Leader Ezy Walk harness - clips at the front. I didn't even know you could get "anti pull" harnesses, I thought they would all make pulling easier for the dog.

Walks are so much more pleasant. Does it stop him from pulling? Not 100% but it allows me to regain control of him very easily if he starts really lunging out to the end, and he slackens off much quicker. So he is now getting many more walks. They are still not as enjoyable as I would like them but we are increasing in frequency the nicer he becomes to walk. Once he is walking beautifully in his harness, we will start making a transition to his flat collar and dealing with any issues - while keeping the harness attached initially.

I have reintroduced rewards for wanted behaviour on walks and this will continue when we transition.

I dont care if I sound like a terrible owner but if I hadn't bought the harness, my boy would be having to make do with playtime and zoomies round the back yard, with maybe a walk chucked in every now and again because I havetemporarily forgotten he is horrid to walk. Now, he is going out often and will only get to go out more as he improves, so if that means I have to use a tool to get him out there as often as I want and he needs, then so be it!

[haylz27]

You can try every collar or harness out there and I guarantee there probably won't be much of a change. It's not about the tool being used it's about training your dog not to pull.

My beagle pulls really badly and I am working with her little by little and she has improved a bit... She's just so excitable the moment we go outside.

The first time I put a no-pull harness on Ava, there was an instant change. She ran to the end of the lead and went "WHOA! What was that?". It was a very pleasant walk!

I consider myself a relatively competent trainer, but loose leash walking in the presence of both of my dogs at once has me stumped. The harness allows them to actually get walked while we work on focus in the meantime.

That's what I walk her on. I saw a change instantly as well but then she got used of it. We are making progress slowly though. I haven't walked her for at least a week because I've been sick and it's been absolutely freezing outside. Lazy, lazy owner lol.

[Jed]

Good Training by a competent trainer

[all that glitters]

My girl was a puller and I tried numerous non-pull devices, the one I used longest was the gentle leader. Now we're back to just a check chain and she's suddenly hardly pulling on walks... maturing maybe? not complaining

[OSoSwift]

I agree with the training with a competant trainer.

However the average person living in an average world still needs to walk their dog. Because after all a dog that pulls and gives you a hard time is only going to get worse if it doesn't get walked. The walk after not being walked for a few days/week is going to be worse than if they are getting regular walks. Also the more a dog pulls the more they are being reinforced for pulling. So surely something that helps reduce or eliminate pulling so the dog can be walked while the dog is being trained is not a bad thing?

I don't mind what people use as long as the dog is not hurt and they are not being nasty about it.

Remember we are talking the "average" dog owner not obedience enthusiasts or trainers with a wealth of knowledge and training techniques.

It is fine to say anything other than a flat collar and lead is nasty and cruel and try to make people feel guilty about training in no pull harnesses or halti's, but that is not productive. If I walk my dog in a prong collar and it is not pulling or putting any pressure on the lead then I would consider that the dog wearing the collar is not an aversive??? I have seen a dog severly corrected in a flat collar as well.

I train with no collar and lead most of the time, but of course I don't when we are in areas where this in not appropriate. I would like to think everyone can do that, but if course that is not always possible.

I haven't had a dog that pulls so I am sorry I cannot recommend any of the no pull things as I have not used them.