szafir Posted June 20, 2010 Share Posted June 20, 2010 Hi all, I am constantly amazed at the level of focus Schutzhund dogs show in their obedience routines. I can appreciate they are high drive dogs to start with, but can anyone explain the training techniques used to get their heeling so focused? Thanks! :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted June 20, 2010 Share Posted June 20, 2010 I have a great interest in Schutzhund and consider it a fine sport for the high level and value disciplines that it teaches both dog and handlers. I don't do Schutzhund though, not for any reason other than the logistics of time and timing, so I can't answer for them as far as the teaching of heel is concerned. But I'd be very surprised if they didn't use training in drive techniques to achieve it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K9Nev Posted June 20, 2010 Share Posted June 20, 2010 (edited) The Ivan Balabanov CD's teach the training process of the Schutzhund heel which are very good and as Erny suggested is trained in drive Edited June 20, 2010 by K9Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incavale Posted June 20, 2010 Share Posted June 20, 2010 The focus training needs to start when the pup is very young. This link might give you a few clues http://www.schutzhund-training.net/obedien...%20Heeling.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonElite Posted June 20, 2010 Share Posted June 20, 2010 Why not go to a sch club and ask? Godfried Dildey has a brilliant book and a set of dvds expaling more then just the heeling. But there are "nowmal" obediecne people out there that know how to teach the attention heeling, are there any at obedience trials where you are? Some of them are on DOL - dont be shy guys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dory the Doted One Posted June 20, 2010 Share Posted June 20, 2010 The focus training needs to start when the pup is very young. Does it? I've successfully trained plenty of older dogs with Drive Training techniques, some to quite a high degree of competitive obedience. I personally think the trick is to find the thing that switches your dog on. Whether that's a toy or food, and in one case I had a dog that just went crazy with purely verbal praise. He was a dynamite obedience dog...pita to live with with! But we loved him anyway. As to dogs that appear to have no interest in anything, you can work on that. Dory wasn't too interested in toys when I first got her if you tried to wind her up she'd look at you like you were a nut. These days it doesn't take her much to kick into drive with a toy and do some nice heeling. (Short lived as it is...I've gotten waaaaaaay slack and have lowered my standard quite a bit these days). It just took a bit of patience, lots of praise and training her to let her know she could go crackers over a toy not just rough games. She has learned to LOVE tug. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yesmaam Posted June 21, 2010 Share Posted June 21, 2010 Hi all,I am constantly amazed at the level of focus Schutzhund dogs show in their obedience routines. I can appreciate they are high drive dogs to start with, but can anyone explain the training techniques used to get their heeling so focused? Thanks! :-) As the saying goes, there are many roads to Rome. There is no one hard and fast way to teach good focus. Most I know will shape the behaviour with food (eye contact static exercise) then establish the basic position then intro movement ie: one pace while dog maintains 100% focus, so on and so on. No tug reward until behaviour is well established. Here is a link to Mia Skogster who won the 2010 FMBB world championships. Mia and her dog Helge are the first and currently the only dog/handler team in the world to get a full score of 100 out of 100 points in obedience in a World Championship. Metro Dogsport Club in QLD will be holding a seminar with Mia next Feb If you would like to learn how to heel with good focus from the 2010 FMBB world champion please follow the link to metro dogsport club inc. http://www.metrodogsport.com/metro_2010_005.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicolatu Posted June 21, 2010 Share Posted June 21, 2010 The focus training needs to start when the pup is very young. Does it? I've successfully trained plenty of older dogs with Drive Training techniques, some to quite a high degree of competitive obedience. I personally think the trick is to find the thing that switches your dog on. Whether that's a toy or food, and in one case I had a dog that just went crazy with purely verbal praise. He was a dynamite obedience dog...pita to live with with! But we loved him anyway. As to dogs that appear to have no interest in anything, you can work on that. Dory wasn't too interested in toys when I first got her if you tried to wind her up she'd look at you like you were a nut. These days it doesn't take her much to kick into drive with a toy and do some nice heeling. (Short lived as it is...I've gotten waaaaaaay slack and have lowered my standard quite a bit these days). It just took a bit of patience, lots of praise and training her to let her know she could go crackers over a toy not just rough games. She has learned to LOVE tug. Where can I find more information on drive training? My puppy seems to be very play motivated so maybe I could use that to my advantage in training. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perfect partners Posted June 21, 2010 Share Posted June 21, 2010 The focus training needs to start when the pup is very young. Does it? I've successfully trained plenty of older dogs with Drive Training techniques, some to quite a high degree of competitive obedience. I personally think the trick is to find the thing that switches your dog on. Whether that's a toy or food, and in one case I had a dog that just went crazy with purely verbal praise. He was a dynamite obedience dog...pita to live with with! But we loved him anyway. As to dogs that appear to have no interest in anything, you can work on that. Dory wasn't too interested in toys when I first got her if you tried to wind her up she'd look at you like you were a nut. These days it doesn't take her much to kick into drive with a toy and do some nice heeling. (Short lived as it is...I've gotten waaaaaaay slack and have lowered my standard quite a bit these days). It just took a bit of patience, lots of praise and training her to let her know she could go crackers over a toy not just rough games. She has learned to LOVE tug. Where can I find more information on drive training? My puppy seems to be very play motivated so maybe I could use that to my advantage in training. K9 Pro web site Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Fox Posted June 21, 2010 Share Posted June 21, 2010 The focus training needs to start when the pup is very young. Does it? I've successfully trained plenty of older dogs with Drive Training techniques, some to quite a high degree of competitive obedience. I personally think the trick is to find the thing that switches your dog on. Whether that's a toy or food, and in one case I had a dog that just went crazy with purely verbal praise. He was a dynamite obedience dog...pita to live with with! But we loved him anyway. As to dogs that appear to have no interest in anything, you can work on that. Dory wasn't too interested in toys when I first got her if you tried to wind her up she'd look at you like you were a nut. These days it doesn't take her much to kick into drive with a toy and do some nice heeling. (Short lived as it is...I've gotten waaaaaaay slack and have lowered my standard quite a bit these days). It just took a bit of patience, lots of praise and training her to let her know she could go crackers over a toy not just rough games. She has learned to LOVE tug. Where can I find more information on drive training? My puppy seems to be very play motivated so maybe I could use that to my advantage in training. K9 Pro web site here: http://www.k9pro.com.au/pages.php?pageid=55 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted June 21, 2010 Share Posted June 21, 2010 Where can I find more information on drive training? My puppy seems to be very play motivated so maybe I could use that to my advantage in training. Pro-K9's Foundation Level Classes forms the basis for the beginning of drive training and explains the basics for how to use this to enhance obedience command responses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incavale Posted June 21, 2010 Share Posted June 21, 2010 Does it? I just find it easier to start when the dog is young. I personally think the trick is to find the thing that switches your dog on. Whether that's a toy or food, and in one case I had a dog that just went crazy with purely verbal praise I agree with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted June 21, 2010 Share Posted June 21, 2010 (edited) I personally think the trick is to find the thing that switches your dog on. Whether that's a toy or food, and in one case I had a dog that just went crazy with purely verbal praise. In essence, I agree with the above. However, I've also found that people quit quite quickly in trying to bring out the drive in their dog (even if it's only weak at the beginning) and build on that. I've seen dogs whose owners have said their dog just simply isn't a game of tug or playing with toys, who persist and in a few weeks their dog has 'bloomed' and is even more motivated for the tug than it was previously for what the owners thought was their dog's most favourite motivation (eg food; praise). You can take drive, nurture it as you might a precious plant, and have it bloom in front of your eyes, with some dogs. IMO it is worth trying and not quitting on too soon. Edited June 21, 2010 by Erny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yesmaam Posted June 21, 2010 Share Posted June 21, 2010 The focus training needs to start when the pup is very young. Does it? I've successfully trained plenty of older dogs with Drive Training techniques, some to quite a high degree of competitive obedience. I personally think the trick is to find the thing that switches your dog on. Whether that's a toy or food, and in one case I had a dog that just went crazy with purely verbal praise. He was a dynamite obedience dog...pita to live with with! But we loved him anyway. As to dogs that appear to have no interest in anything, you can work on that. Dory wasn't too interested in toys when I first got her if you tried to wind her up she'd look at you like you were a nut. These days it doesn't take her much to kick into drive with a toy and do some nice heeling. (Short lived as it is...I've gotten waaaaaaay slack and have lowered my standard quite a bit these days). It just took a bit of patience, lots of praise and training her to let her know she could go crackers over a toy not just rough games. She has learned to LOVE tug. Where can I find more information on drive training? My puppy seems to be very play motivated so maybe I could use that to my advantage in training. K9 Pro web site here: http://www.k9pro.com.au/pages.php?pageid=55 Just had a read through this webpage. "Here is a basic exercise, leash your dog that knows a basic sit command. Get out his favourite ball or toy and put some fast movement into it, but don't let your dog capture (the prey) the toy for a few seconds. Next whilst playing and the dog is trying to capture the toy, you need to do a couple of things at once, try hard, you'll manage. Raise the toy up high and above the dogs head moving it backwards, command sit and pop the leash backwards like your training the sit. The dog will be crouching looking at the toy, so the sit is easy. The second the dogs butt hits the ground you throw the toy into the ground and let the dog chase and capture it." This may be one way to teach a dog an exercise in drive but to be honest I found it a bit outdated and not really how we do it in SchH clubs these days....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huski Posted June 21, 2010 Share Posted June 21, 2010 Yesmaam it's just an example for the article not an extensive how to on drive training Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yesmaam Posted June 21, 2010 Share Posted June 21, 2010 Yesmaam it's just an example for the article not an extensive how to on drive training An old outdated example then.......... Reminded me of the stuff on the 1999 Bernhard Flinks DVD actually.............. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jesomil Posted June 21, 2010 Share Posted June 21, 2010 (edited) . Edited July 1, 2010 by jesomil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nekhbet Posted June 21, 2010 Share Posted June 21, 2010 here is one with method attached somewhat his page also has good other videos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
szafir Posted June 21, 2010 Author Share Posted June 21, 2010 Thanks for everyone's responses. With weaning off the toy/food, I would assume that is done gradually. Seemingly the dogs don't lose focus in the ring after not being reinforced for a while. In training though, would you still give the occasional reward at random intervals once the behaviour is established? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huski Posted June 21, 2010 Share Posted June 21, 2010 I don't know anyone who does drive training where they wean the dog off the reward altogether be it food or prey - a lot of people work on remote rewards and increase the length of time the dog can stay in drive wthout a reward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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