Smell Distractions On An Agility Course..how To Train

[sheena]

I've just had a weekend of agility trials held in the centre of a greyhound track, which is home to 100's of rabbits when not being used.

The whole weekend was a disaster, with her going off after smells rather than keeping her attention on me. Anyone know how to train so that "I" am more important then "smells". I do a lot of "focus" training at home with treats & did some focus training before each run at the trial, but it didn't seem to make any difference. HELP I have another trial up there in a fortnight.

ETA...most people had trouble with their dogs...not a high weekend for "Q"s.

[huski]

Anyone know how to train so that "I" am more important then "smells".

Owning a scent hound I can tell you there is no quick fix for this problem I did it by using drive training, I harnessed my dog's natural drive to scent with food and built her drive for the food and for working with me that way - but it isn't something that can happen over night.

[corvus]

I've heard of people collecting rabbit poo and putting it in a container with holes and using that as a reward. Premack tends to work pretty well, but it takes time to build up the restraint long enough, and doesn't deal with the problem in the long run, just serves to control it. As long as there's a chance that the dog can bugger off and get rewarded it's probably going to be really hard to conquer.

There was a case study like this in Control Unleashed with a Vizsla and horse poo. They used gates to fence the dog off from piles of horse poo and worked on building up basic skills close to the horse poo. The handler did more work on targeting and focus exercises and also brought peanut butter in as a reward, as the dog was nuts about it. Her dog would break off halfway through a sequence to race off and eat horse poo, so she only did half a sequence and gradually built the dog up to cope with working around poo.

[Vickie]

I've just had a weekend of agility trials held in the centre of a greyhound track, which is home to 100's of rabbits when not being used.

The whole weekend was a disaster, with her going off after smells rather than keeping her attention on me. Anyone know how to train so that "I" am more important then "smells".

How long has she been trialling for? Do you have equip at home? and what are you using to reward her in training?

If it were me I would spend every second of my training increasing her enjoyment of agility. Reward more often & reward with things better than you have ever offered before.

I do a lot of "focus" training at home with treats & did some focus training before each run at the trial, but it didn't seem to make any difference.

are you training the focus on you? or the equipment? I never want to teach my dogs to focus on me for agility. but I spend lots of time setting them up in front of a jump & releasing only when they look at the jump & rewarding for that. I want forward focus & looking for obstacles.

HELP I have another trial up there in a fortnight.

2 weeks is not a long time to fix an issue like this. I would be working LOTS of small sequences ie 3-4 obstacles and rewarding heavily. Also I would set up some speed circles so that she can always see what obstacle is in front of her, making it really really fun to feel the wind in her hair. If she misses obstacles, don't worry, just keep running.

Depending on how she is going by the time of the trial I may look at just doing half a course at the trial rather than the whole course, so that she is more likely to stick with you.

For instance if you have managed to increase her enjoyment of agility by 10-25%, then maybe half a course.

If you have increased it by more, she may stick with you for the whole course.

There are obvious sections on most courses where a dog will lose focus if they are likely to lose focus. These sections will often be after a straight line of obstacles. Dogs with focus issues will often keep going straight ahead when the handler turns. YOu can help by really talking/calling/getting her attention on these turns. Also make sure you are really running & not facing/watching her. If you babysit too much, your shoulders facing her will provide no direction & it will be easier for her to make other choices.

Hope that helps & makes sense.

Edited June 20, 2010 by Vickie

[sheena]

I've just had a weekend of agility trials held in the centre of a greyhound track, which is home to 100's of rabbits when not being used.

The whole weekend was a disaster, with her going off after smells rather than keeping her attention on me. Anyone know how to train so that "I" am more important then "smells".

How long has she been trialling for? Do you have equip at home? and what are you using to reward her in training?

If it were me I would spend every second of my training increasing her enjoyment of agility. Reward more often & reward with things better than you have ever offered before.

I do a lot of "focus" training at home with treats & did some focus training before each run at the trial, but it didn't seem to make any difference.

are you training the focus on you? or the equipment? I never want to teach my dogs to focus on me for agility. but I spend lots of time setting them up in front of a jump & releasing only when they look at the jump & rewarding for that. I want forward focus & looking for obstacles.

HELP I have another trial up there in a fortnight.

2 weeks is not a long time to fix an issue like this. I would be working LOTS of small sequences ie 3-4 obstacles and rewarding heavily. Also I would set up some speed circles so that she can always see what obstacle is in front of her, making it really really fun to feel the wind in her hair. If she misses obstacles, don't worry, just keep running.

Depending on how she is going by the time of the trial I may look at just doing half a course at the trial rather than the whole course, so that she is more likely to stick with you.

For instance if you have managed to increase her enjoyment of agility by 10-25%, then maybe half a course.

If you have increased it by more, she may stick with you for the whole course.

There are obvious sections on most courses where a dog will lose focus if they are likely to lose focus. These sections will often be after a straight line of obstacles. Dogs with focus issues will often keep going straight ahead when the handler turns. YOu can help by really talking/calling/getting her attention on these turns. Also make sure you are really running & not facing/watching her. If you babysit too much, your shoulders facing her will provide no direction & it will be easier for her to make other choices.

Hope that helps & makes sense.

She's been trialling since last September & has been doing really well, despite being destracted by what's going on around her. My OH videos my runs & on the replays I can see that when she takes an obstacle, she is looking out to the side (not at me) at what ever is going on in the next field etc. I have most of the obstacles set up at home & train for probably no more than 5 minutes twice a day, including flat work & mainly working just one or two obstacles. I mainly use roast beef or cooked liver, which she loves & also a ball. She is not a "tug" dog even though she enjoys a game it is not something she goes crazy for. She is almost perfect in training at home & responds well to my voice & body language, & I use lots of treats. We also go to school once a week.

I noticed on the weekend that it was mainly at the corners or ends of runs of obstacles that she would lose focus & put her nose to the ground, & shut her ears off. I hate raising my voice & feel really bad about it when I do. I always call her on the changes of direction, but this weekend it just didn't work.

Thought I might take her down the paddock where there are lots of smells...when she puts her nose to the ground, I will call her & as soon as she raises her head to look at me I will click & treat her when she comes to me. Then maybe set up a few jumps down there.

I have thought about taking her off the course when she stuffs up, but not sure if she would see this as a reward or punishment for her behaviour

Maybe she will grow out of it...she is a border collie not quite 3 yrs old...then again, maybe it was just an off weekend for her.

[Vickie]

Maybe she will grow out of it...she is a border collie not quite 3 yrs old...then again, maybe it was just an off weekend for her.

It is unlikely that she will grow out of it, unless you are able to increase her motivation for agility. It really sounds to me like you need to take some steps backwards, depending on what you want as an end performance. I don't think it really matters what she is distracted by, any distraction means she needs to want to do agility more.

When I started trialling, I considered a good run to be completing or even almost completing the whole course. Now my definition of success is entirely different. I want my dogs going flat out, quivering in excitement at the start line and launching through the air to get their reward at the end. I want to be able to know that if there was a fried chicken sitting in the middle of the course, they wouldn't even notice it. I would much rather DQ on an awesome run than win on an average run. The dog's perception of the game is everything.

[sheena]

I want to be able to know that if there was a fried chicken sitting in the middle of the course, they wouldn't even notice it. I would much rather DQ on an awesome run than win on an average run. The dog's perception of the game is everything.

That's exactly how I feel & want to find out how to achieve it.. I took her to training last night & made the whole session a real party...really upbeat & excited about even the mistakes & she seemed to love it (instructor might have thought I was going around the twist). I am so glad as I was beginning to think she might have been going "cold". I just want to see her having fun, but I would really like to be part of her fun all of the time, not some rabbit or faraway dog on another course. ;)

[huski]

That's exactly how I feel & want to find out how to achieve it.. I took her to training last night & made the whole session a real party...really upbeat & excited about even the mistakes & she seemed to love it (instructor might have thought I was going around the twist). I am so glad as I was beginning to think she might have been going "cold". I just want to see her having fun, but I would really like to be part of her fun all of the time, not some rabbit or faraway dog on another course. ;)

Keeping in mind I know nothing (and I emphasize on nothing) about agility, I find with my dog once I get her 'up' and working in drive she simply doesn't notice distractions lying around.

For example last night at training we put an open bag of stinky luncheon roll under a cone. Simply walking her past it Daisy went crazy, she could smell it instantly and went mad trying to sniff it out and had she not been on the leash I am 110% certain she would have tipped the cone over within seconds. I revved her up and got her in drive and walk her around the same cone so close she was touching it and she didn't even glance at it never mind put her nose on the ground to scent out the food. It wasn't a conscious decision to ignore it - but because she was so focused and switched on and aroused, she simply didn't think about it.

I can do the same thing walking past people crouching on the ground waving food at her.

Edited June 22, 2010 by huski

[sheena]

That's exactly how I feel & want to find out how to achieve it.. I took her to training last night & made the whole session a real party...really upbeat & excited about even the mistakes & she seemed to love it (instructor might have thought I was going around the twist). I am so glad as I was beginning to think she might have been going "cold". I just want to see her having fun, but I would really like to be part of her fun all of the time, not some rabbit or faraway dog on another course.

Keeping in mind I know nothing (and I emphasize on nothing) about agility, I find with my dog once I get her 'up' and working in drive she simply doesn't notice distractions lying around.

For example last night at training we put an open bag of stinky luncheon roll under a cone. Simply walking her past it Daisy went crazy, she could smell it instantly and went mad trying to sniff it out and had she not been on the leash I am 110% certain she would have tipped the cone over within seconds. I revved her up and got her in drive and walk her around the same cone so close she was touching it and she didn't even glance at it never mind put her nose on the ground to scent out the food. It wasn't a conscious decision to ignore it - but because she was so focused and switched on and aroused, she simply didn't think about it.

I can do the same thing walking past people crouching on the ground waving food at her.

That's what I want to know....how do you train it

[Tiggy]

That's exactly how I feel & want to find out how to achieve it.. I took her to training last night & made the whole session a real party...really upbeat & excited about even the mistakes & she seemed to love it (instructor might have thought I was going around the twist). I am so glad as I was beginning to think she might have been going "cold". I just want to see her having fun, but I would really like to be part of her fun all of the time, not some rabbit or faraway dog on another course.

Keeping in mind I know nothing (and I emphasize on nothing) about agility, I find with my dog once I get her 'up' and working in drive she simply doesn't notice distractions lying around.

For example last night at training we put an open bag of stinky luncheon roll under a cone. Simply walking her past it Daisy went crazy, she could smell it instantly and went mad trying to sniff it out and had she not been on the leash I am 110% certain she would have tipped the cone over within seconds. I revved her up and got her in drive and walk her around the same cone so close she was touching it and she didn't even glance at it never mind put her nose on the ground to scent out the food. It wasn't a conscious decision to ignore it - but because she was so focused and switched on and aroused, she simply didn't think about it.

I can do the same thing walking past people crouching on the ground waving food at her.

How cute would Daisy be doing agility

[huski]

LOL Tiggy, it would take the 'flying beagle ears' to new heights

[Mrs Rusty Bucket]

How do you train it - the drive thing?

Vaguely - get the dog excited with a tug toy or something she loves before you start any training.

Specifically - ask Steve at K9Pro, he's the expert.

We had the same problem at training this morning. Someone had dropped a treat bag full of yummy things that I usually use to reward my dog during training. I could get her past them with a "lure" ie a beef chip which she is very excited about and trumps those particular treats but if I didn't have that where she could see it - I couldn't get her off the treats. Sad. I've got a lot of work to do.

We did do the basics for "food refusal" training after that. Which involves someone my dog doesn't normally get food from - offering her something, and me holding the lead so she couldn't have it and telling her to "leave it", count to three, and reward if her attention returns to me. Or for stopping trying to get the treats. Start with crappy treats for refusing and high value ones for reward and work up to really yummy treats for refusal (fritz/devon/roast chicken/possum poo).

We do have a problem with large amounts of possum poo at that particular venue and I've been thinking about taking it home for lessons. Sheep poo and horse poo and dead things at the beach are also popular with my dog.

[Vickie]

I want to be able to know that if there was a fried chicken sitting in the middle of the course, they wouldn't even notice it. I would much rather DQ on an awesome run than win on an average run. The dog's perception of the game is everything.

That's exactly how I feel & want to find out how to achieve it..

I took her to training last night & made the whole session a real party...really upbeat & excited about even the mistakes & she seemed to love it

Sounds like you are on your way to achieving it. Just know that it will take time. If you are getting her revved up (I like to use a word, like "Ready") to let her know fun will begin, you asking for achievable things, are rewarding often & remaining upbeat, she will improve with each session. Soon she will be loving it so much that she won't even notice the smells on the ground.

It's good to remain positive about her mistakes. Is any dog really making a mistake on an agility course? I was chatting to someone about this today.

I believe that each time you take a dog back to redo an obstacle they have failed or missed, each time you slump your shoulders, or groan etc...you are decreasing their motivation & their trust in you as a handler. If a dog makes a mistake on course, then it always means more work needs to be done either in improved handling or training. The dog should really never know they have done it wrong...b/c they haven't, we have...either in handling or training. I do believe there are a couple of exceptions to the above.

Edited June 22, 2010 by Vickie

[sheena]

I want to be able to know that if there was a fried chicken sitting in the middle of the course, they wouldn't even notice it. I would much rather DQ on an awesome run than win on an average run. The dog's perception of the game is everything.

That's exactly how I feel & want to find out how to achieve it..

I took her to training last night & made the whole session a real party...really upbeat & excited about even the mistakes & she seemed to love it

Sounds like you are on your way to achieving it. Just know that it will take time. If you are getting her revved up (I like to use a word, like "Ready") to let her know fun will begin, you asking for achievable things, are rewarding often & remaining upbeat, she will improve with each session. Soon she will be loving it so much that she won't even notice the smells on the ground.

It's good to remain positive about her mistakes. Is any dog really making a mistake on an agility course? I was chatting to someone about this today.

I believe that each time you take a dog back to redo an obstacle they have failed or missed, each time you slump your shoulders, or groan etc...you are decreasing their motivation & their trust in you as a handler. If a dog makes a mistake on course, then it always means more work needs to be done either in improved handling or training. The dog should really never know they have done it wrong...b/c they haven't, we have...either in handling or training. I do believe there are a couple of exceptions to the above.

We have a lady comes to our trials & she is a joy to watch. She has a couple of dogs she runs & she is so "up beat" all the way round the course...when the dog goes the wrong way, she has a party. Thanks Vickie & all the other DOL's, I really appreciate your advise & encouragement. I agree, there is no such thing as a bad dog, it's always handler error. Bindi is a great dog, I love her to bits, & if I can fix this "distraction" problem I will be over the moon, & I think she will enjoy things a lot more too.

[Vickie]

We have a lady comes to our trials & she is a joy to watch. She has a couple of dogs she runs & she is so "up beat" all the way round the course...when the dog goes the wrong way, she has a party.

She sounds like a great trainer . Do you live near her? or anyone else you admire? It can be awesome to train with someone who handles the way you want to. Maybe she does lessons?

Bindi is a great dog, I love her to bits, & if I can fix this "distraction" problem I will be over the moon, & I think she will enjoy things a lot more too.

Make sure you keep us updated with her progress

[sheena]

Hi Vickie,

I am not sure where this lady lives, but she goes to most of our trials & I have spoken to her on occassions...usually to tell her how I admire her being able to keep her cool & be so upbeat when it is obvious the dogs are doing their own thing.

This is my third day of trying the "click & treat". I take her down to what we call "the cattle camp", (we live on a property). For a dog it is the most exciting part of the farm as there are smells from rabbits, foxes, kangaroos, dingoes & possums, just to name a few. When she puts her nose to the ground I call "here" & if she lifts her head & turns to me I click & treat. First day went OK & she got the idea. The second day, not so good ...probably because I had rump steak treats instead of baked liver. Today, I took her on a lead, & it worked much better. The idea of the lead, was if she didn't respond to my voice immediately, then I would give a gentle tug to get her attention, then say "good girl," but no treat. Then immediately give her the opportunity to earn another treat. I only had to use the lead tug twice & I noticed that she was even lifting her head after detecting a smell & looking for the treat before I could ask her.

[sheena]

DAY 4...went really well. I took her to a more distracting place, around the dam & only had to give a little tug on the lead once. She gives me her attention straight away & doesn't bother going back to the smell Probably have to start fazing out the treats soon & take her to where there are other dogs around doing their own thing. One side benefit of all this, is that I now have a dog who walks lovely on a loose lead

[sheena]

I have a little brag....two weeks ago I posted in frustration a plea for help after a weekend trial held in the middle of a greyhound track. All weekend I couldn't get Bindi to focus because of all the distracting smells of the dogs & rabbits etc. The whole weekend was a disaster & I was in fear that Bindi might have "turned off". :p For the following 4 days, I did 10 minutes a day with her in a very exciting (smell wise) part of the farm, with a clicker & a big bag of treats. When she would put her nose to the ground, I would call "here" then click & treat as soon as she turned to me. By the 4th day, she was putting her nose to the ground then turning to me, before I had time to call "here".

This last weekend was the tester with another trial in a distracting (rabbit) environment.

We did 6 runs over the weekend & came away with 3 third places & a "Q". We were under SCT in 4 runs & were only disqualified in one run, when Bindi had a nasty fall on the second last jump (the sun was in her eyes) & I carried her off the field.

:D I am so proud of my girl :D