dee lee Posted June 15, 2010 Share Posted June 15, 2010 Honey is toilet trained but never asks to go. We let her out or take her out for toiletting and this works ok for the most part. BUT there has been the occasional time (generally when I am not home ) when the back door is shut and the poor love just has to go. Luckily we have tiles near the back door and that is always where she goes, but I would much rather find a way to teach her to let us know when she is busting. Any suggestions??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidan Posted June 15, 2010 Share Posted June 15, 2010 http://www.clickertraining.com/node/1171 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tlc Posted June 15, 2010 Share Posted June 15, 2010 I had exactly the same thing with my girl Tully, I had posted this in another section of the forum so I just copy and pasted it here for you to read. Tully was toilet trained really early but she would go to the door and just sit there with out making a sound and just wait for me to come to let her out, now this was fine during the day when I was around to see her, open the door and out she goes. BUT at night she did the same thing which posed a problem if I was fast asleep, (the others woke me to go by either barking or nudging the side of the bed.) But Tully just went to the door and sat and If I didn't come to let her out there would be a puddle in the morning. So I got a bell and hung in on the door and for the next few times she needed to go out when she sat at the door I would tap her foot on bell and then let her strait outside to do her business. My OH said oh that is never going to work but by the very next night she was ringing the bell by herself, we were both shocked that she caught on so quick but it works so well now 2 of them use the bell at night to let us know if they want to go out which is not often but it works so well. Lacy doesn't use the bell but just stands next to the bed and barks at me to wake up if she needs to go and Bronson is in his crate so if he needs to go he just gives a little cry but he has a steel bladder and never wants to go out during the night, he is too busy sleeping Tully also rings the bell to let us know the cat wants to come in!! Give it a go, it worked a treat for us!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dee lee Posted June 15, 2010 Author Share Posted June 15, 2010 (edited) The main problem is that she doesn't sit and wait so I would have trouble marking the behaviour. Most of the time I take her when its time- ie first thing when we go for a walk, after the school pick up etc. When we first adopted her she wouldnt even use our paved yard to toilet, she held on for days before we twigged that she needed to be offlead and on grass. She has gotten better at that but I still need to let her out multiple times just in case- She rarely shows signs of needing to go. ETA: She never has accidents at night or when she is inside when we are at work. Edited June 15, 2010 by ✽deelee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted June 15, 2010 Share Posted June 15, 2010 Get a dog door. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dee lee Posted June 15, 2010 Author Share Posted June 15, 2010 Get a dog door. No can do. We live in a high risk area for burglaries, any size dog door a GR can get through, a junkie can too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corvus Posted June 15, 2010 Share Posted June 15, 2010 Erik started asking when I started paying him for going. He went through a phase where he refused to go on the grass if it was wet (pansy). So I would go out with him, tell him to water the grass and then give him a treat when he did. Since he cottoned on to that, he will find a way to tell me to open the door and accompany him outside so I can reward him when he pees. Often it's barking, but then he barks about a lot of things. So he will start banging things around in the kitchen and scratching at the door until I realise what he's on about and let him out. I am starting to catch on to what Erik's "I need to go out!" bark sounds like. Mind you, Kivi gets treats if he goes on the grass as well, just because Erik does. So Kivi still doesn't make any noise to ask to go out, but he does fake peeing, comes to collect his treat, and then turns around and goes back out to do a real one. Had to start watching him and bring in the "No really, you only get one treat per outing regardless of how many times you pee" rule. He's adorable. I do vaguely recall him scratching at the door one time, so maybe he does ask now and just never needs to because Erik usually can't last as long as he can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted June 15, 2010 Share Posted June 15, 2010 (edited) Get a dog door. No can do. We live in a high risk area for burglaries, any size dog door a GR can get through, a junkie can too. Get one with an electronic lock and a collar that triggers it to open. Oh and get a security system. A crowbar will see any door off its hinges pretty damn quickly. Edited June 15, 2010 by poodlefan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megan_ Posted June 15, 2010 Share Posted June 15, 2010 Get one with an electronic lock and a collar that triggers it to open. Oh and get a security system. A crowbar will see any door off its hinges pretty damn quickly. Then they will try to get the dog and remove the tag. After being broken into twice through a very small dog door (I have mini schnauzers) I wouldn't recommend getting one - and I live in a nice area! I can't be much help deelee - since the dog door is gone my doy just taps the kitchen door glass (which is not near the dog door) when he wants to go out - I never even trained him to do this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerraNik Posted June 15, 2010 Share Posted June 15, 2010 My dogs ring a bell when they want to go out. Doesn't take long for them to learn. I have a foster dog and a friend's dog here and they were both ringing the bell the same day they arrived. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dee lee Posted June 15, 2010 Author Share Posted June 15, 2010 Get one with an electronic lock and a collar that triggers it to open. Oh and get a security system. A crowbar will see any door off its hinges pretty damn quickly. Then they will try to get the dog and remove the tag. After being broken into twice through a very small dog door (I have mini schnauzers) I wouldn't recommend getting one - and I live in a nice area! Additionally we have metal security grilles outside the doors so a dog door won't work with them. The house is pretty secure, just not busting-dog-friendly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted June 15, 2010 Share Posted June 15, 2010 (edited) Does your dog give you ANY indication of wanting to toilet? Even if it is the wrong indication? I don't know why, but in his younger days, my boy stood and looked towards the front door on one occasion. I (wrongly) suspected that he might be trying to tell me he wanted to go outside for the toilet. I confess to puzzling on it a bit, given that he has been taught to go out the back to toilet. I thought perhaps it was because this was the only spot he could be to indicate 'outside' where I could see him at the time. So I got up and let him out. I was wrong - he wanted to go outside because he'd left a toy out there which he obviously wanted back. From that one occasion, he began to repeat the behaviour. But instead of letting him out the front, I'd indicate towards the back door and open it for him, go out with him and give him the toilet command. Of course, a treat afterwards. He is now performing this behaviour to indicate 'toilet required' more often and more reliably. If he goes out but it isn't for the toilet, I do an about turn and come back inside. He's normally following me, but I ignore him and go back to what I was doing. He's only just now beginning to come to me (indicating frustration) if I'm not anywhere to see him looking to the door and on those couple of recent occasions I ask "you want to go out to the toilet?", he wags his tail vibrantly and we head straight to the back door. I'm hoping that he's cottoned on to this new communication between the two of us. I don't really think that using a clicker is that necessary - after all, what behaviour are you going to mark and is the dog pairing it with it needing to go to the toilet at all? If the dog performs a behaviour and you are able to respond correctly by letting him out, then the relief of being able to toilet where he has learnt (and is therefore the most comfortable) is in itself rewarding. As far as a doggy door is concerned, whilst that would solve the issue for your dog being inside when you're not home, it doesn't really teach a dog to (a) indicate to you his need to be let out for the toilet nor (b) to hold on until he has indicated and you can let him out. Doggy doors might be well and good and some might not care that their dog doesn't have to learn to 'tell' or 'hold on' ..... but it can be very annoying for someone else who you might have asked to look after your dog at their place on the odd occasion or two (or three). If your dog is inside when you're not home and therefore can't let him out, he's going to learn (if he hasn't already) to toilet inside, and would therefore be less likely to worry about trying to 'send you a sign'. Sometimes those 'signs' are really obscure, so you need to look for them if they are there at all, even subtly. Correct reinforcement (eg. your dog taking relief at having been able to go to the toilet where he'd prefer to - assuming outside) will have him repeat the behaviour and you are likely to find the 'indicating behaviour' not quite so obscure after a few correct repetitions. The 'sign' might not even be one that was intended by your dog, but if you are able to put 2 + 2 together and come up with 4, you might be able to pair the 'sign' with the 'action' (ie of him going out to the toilet) by sheer coincidental luck. But all this goes back to the first question of whether your dog gives you any indication at all. I think the main thing is that your dog is not put in a position where he ever gets to toilet inside, as why tell you he needs to go out if he thinks in his mind that it's ok not to? Not sure if all of that made sense. Edited June 15, 2010 by Erny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dee lee Posted June 15, 2010 Author Share Posted June 15, 2010 Erny, that all made perfect sense. She does get fidgetty when she needs to go, I need to be more aware of the subtle signs- mostly I haven't figured it out til it's too late Like you say, I have been concerned that each time she has an accident it reduces her desire to go out to do it. I'm fanatical about avoiding it, Im working on training my OH too- he can be bloody lax about it. Fortunately it hasn't ever happened when she is left home alone inside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Rusty Bucket Posted June 15, 2010 Share Posted June 15, 2010 I let my dog out from time to time, just in case. If she does anything I say the toilet (command) words. Before I let her out, most times, I make her sit. And sometimes I ask her to speak. But I also pay attention when she comes and says hello after I know she's been asleep for a while and I always take her outside. If she's really busting she will bark. The trick is figuring out when she's barking cos she's busting or just because she wants to chase cats. If she's busting she will sometimes stay at the back door or kind of hug the floor. Sometimes she will come and jump all over me and the bed. Definitely gets let out then, and if she pees, she gets let back in but if she chases cats, I shut her out. So I guess she's figured out when it's ok to insist on being let out. Also if she's been eating naughty things, I'm much more careful to take her out if she's restless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buggerme Posted June 20, 2010 Share Posted June 20, 2010 My dogs ring a bell when they want to go out. Doesn't take long for them to learn. I have a foster dog and a friend's dog here and they were both ringing the bell the same day they arrived. I love the ringing bell idea ... was thinking of getting a battery powered door chime from my pup as they have a wider base for the paw to hit on than the "counter bells" that I can find, and hanging a string of bells on my door isnt practical for my joint. Not that Ive tried the idea yet - as my pup hasnt arrived laugh... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dee lee Posted June 21, 2010 Author Share Posted June 21, 2010 (edited) I have resigned myself to the fact that its just my problem and I have to make sure she is toiletted regularly. She shows no reliable signs and is not a barker. I am also not all that talented at training. :D Oh well... Thanks for the suggestions everyone! Edited June 21, 2010 by ✽deelee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerraNik Posted June 21, 2010 Share Posted June 21, 2010 My dogs ring a bell when they want to go out. Doesn't take long for them to learn. I have a foster dog and a friend's dog here and they were both ringing the bell the same day they arrived. I love the ringing bell idea ... was thinking of getting a battery powered door chime from my pup as they have a wider base for the paw to hit on than the "counter bells" that I can find, and hanging a string of bells on my door isnt practical for my joint. I hang a cow bell at the door. I have resigned myself to the fact that its just my problem and I have to make sure she is toiletted regularly. She shows no reliable signs and is not a barker. I am also not all that talented at training. :D Oh well... Thanks for the suggestions everyone! If you wanted to try the bell ringing idea, it's really a no brainer. All you need to do is every time you take her out, ring the bell yourself before you open the door. They make the connection very quickly and start ringing it themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dee lee Posted June 22, 2010 Author Share Posted June 22, 2010 If you wanted to try the bell ringing idea, it's really a no brainer. All you need to do is every time you take her out, ring the bell yourself before you open the door. They make the connection very quickly and start ringing it themselves. No brainer! That sounds like me! I actually think I can manage that- thanks, Nik! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerraNik Posted June 22, 2010 Share Posted June 22, 2010 If you wanted to try the bell ringing idea, it's really a no brainer. All you need to do is every time you take her out, ring the bell yourself before you open the door. They make the connection very quickly and start ringing it themselves. No brainer! That sounds like me! I actually think I can manage that- thanks, Nik! No problem! Good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staff'n'Toller Posted June 22, 2010 Share Posted June 22, 2010 I don't know exactly what Aidan's article says as I am not registered there, but I always refer clients to this one: Clicker Solutions If she will toilet when you take her out you are halfway there already! You just need to train a cue for it. You can do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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