raz Posted June 12, 2010 Share Posted June 12, 2010 Oh god I wonder what animals she killed for that makeup and hair product. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darlingdog Posted June 12, 2010 Share Posted June 12, 2010 I love hippies. I became one as an experiment to see how quickly I could rationalise feeding an ethical natural genetically tortured soy bean to an omnivore. Obviously it's not working because I still think that given half a chance, my dogs would rip the stomach lining out of another animal in order to have an ethical natural life. Aussie, it's good to know you dont intend to make your dogs eat rabbit food. Even dogs in Auroville eat meat while chanting Maharishi Mahesh Yogi. Peace, dude. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hetzer Posted June 12, 2010 Share Posted June 12, 2010 As for vegans. Buy a pet rat. Or, leave some of your mung beans and lentils out on the bench, and a rat will find you. Leave dogs alone. Rats are omnivores as well so let those poor little buggers have a TVP free diet. My pet rat used to LOVE tasty meaty treats... oh yes... I can picture him now nibbling with real gusto! I hope they have good catering in the afterlife... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hetzer Posted June 12, 2010 Share Posted June 12, 2010 Yeah I just had a strong coffee so I'm on a roll this morning That's OK as long as it is Fair Trade coffee beans, dude. I am not sure about that, but it did say "suitable for vegetarians and vegans" on the jar! And I didn't eat a banana this morning so it lives another day! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raz Posted June 12, 2010 Share Posted June 12, 2010 That's priceless Hetzer. I wonder if ethical lentil burger eaters think about the one dollar a poor little south american coffee bean worker gets a month for destroying a few little acres in the Amazon while sipping on their chemical laden soy latte decaf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staranais Posted June 12, 2010 Share Posted June 12, 2010 A little OT but I often wonder how much of the whole vegan/vego thing is influenced by the cost of ethically farmed meat? I find that when a lot of animal welfare arguments come up there are the red blooded meat eaters vs the tree hugging hippies and it's as though no middle ground exists. What I would like to know is how much does cost really put people off buying free range? I know many people who love animals but don't connect that with their purchasing choices in the supermarket. I don't know, most people I know that say they can't "afford" to buy free range eggs or free range meat do seem to manage to afford to buy ciggies, alcohol, chocolate, take away meals, cable TV, and other luxuries. So whether people choose to buy free range or not is in my experience less to do with what people can literally afford, and more to do with what their priorities are. Do you prioritise animal welfare over other luxuries in your budget, or don't you? It seems obvious to me that free range meat & eggs are never going to be as cheap as cage ones from the same species, since they cost more to produce. Not only does it cost more to house free range animals, but they take substantially more food to put on the same amount of carcass weight, since they use some of their energy for walking round & acting like animals instead of for growing. Those costs have to be passed onto the consumer, or the farmer won't make enough of a profit for free range farming to be worthwhile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WoofnHoof Posted June 12, 2010 Share Posted June 12, 2010 A little OT but I often wonder how much of the whole vegan/vego thing is influenced by the cost of ethically farmed meat? I find that when a lot of animal welfare arguments come up there are the red blooded meat eaters vs the tree hugging hippies and it's as though no middle ground exists. What I would like to know is how much does cost really put people off buying free range? I know many people who love animals but don't connect that with their purchasing choices in the supermarket. I don't know, most people I know that say they can't "afford" to buy free range eggs or free range meat do seem to manage to afford to buy ciggies, alcohol, chocolate, take away meals, cable TV, and other luxuries. So whether people choose to buy free range or not is in my experience less to do with what people can literally afford, and more to do with what their priorities are. Do you prioritise animal welfare over other luxuries in your budget, or don't you? It seems obvious to me that free range meat & eggs are never going to be as cheap as cage ones from the same species, since they cost more to produce. Not only does it cost more to house free range animals, but they take substantially more food to put on the same amount of carcass weight, since they use some of their energy for walking round & acting like animals instead of for growing. Those costs have to be passed onto the consumer, or the farmer won't make enough of a profit for free range farming to be worthwhile. Very true, ultimately the consumer choice dictates whether a method will be widely taken up, I had a free range burger from red rooster the other day it was delicious it was about $7 but a normal burger is usually about $5 so it's only $2 difference, sadly I don't think it will be permanent it seems to be more of a 'promotion' rather than permanently on the menu although I'm happy to be proven wrong I'd like it if there were free range options for all the products rather than just one type of burger. I noticed woolies had a free range cooked chook on their little hot bench the other day - the same price as the other cooked chooks! I love picking up a hot chook so it's awesome to have it available - hopefully this trend will continue I'd like to see ethically farmed meat across the board but this is one small step as they say Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kajtek Posted June 12, 2010 Share Posted June 12, 2010 I'm vege too, but my animals aren't - the compromise I make for my animals is to try to avoid buying them meat from inhumanely raised animals. Same here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staranais Posted June 12, 2010 Share Posted June 12, 2010 Very true, ultimately the consumer choice dictates whether a method will be widely taken up, I had a free range burger from red rooster the other day it was delicious it was about $7 but a normal burger is usually about $5 so it's only $2 difference, sadly I don't think it will be permanent it seems to be more of a 'promotion' rather than permanently on the menu although I'm happy to be proven wrong I'd like it if there were free range options for all the products rather than just one type of burger.I noticed woolies had a free range cooked chook on their little hot bench the other day - the same price as the other cooked chooks! I love picking up a hot chook so it's awesome to have it available - hopefully this trend will continue I'd like to see ethically farmed meat across the board but this is one small step as they say I think the trend will continue, just like it has with eggs - now that more and more people are wanting to buy free range eggs rather than caged, I've noticed them becoming more and more available in the supermarkets round here, which I think is great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raz Posted June 12, 2010 Share Posted June 12, 2010 Very true, ultimately the consumer choice dictates whether a method will be widely taken up, I had a free range burger from red rooster the other day it was delicious it was about $7 but a normal burger is usually about $5 so it's only $2 difference, sadly I don't think it will be permanent it seems to be more of a 'promotion' rather than permanently on the menu although I'm happy to be proven wrong I'd like it if there were free range options for all the products rather than just one type of burger. It probably wasnt even free range. It's kinda like Maccas saying - 100% beef. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WoofnHoof Posted June 12, 2010 Share Posted June 12, 2010 Very true, ultimately the consumer choice dictates whether a method will be widely taken up, I had a free range burger from red rooster the other day it was delicious it was about $7 but a normal burger is usually about $5 so it's only $2 difference, sadly I don't think it will be permanent it seems to be more of a 'promotion' rather than permanently on the menu although I'm happy to be proven wrong I'd like it if there were free range options for all the products rather than just one type of burger. It probably wasnt even free range. It's kinda like Maccas saying - 100% beef. Lol baby steps raz I guess I support the *ideal* of free range, we can iron out the details once it's more of a mainstream product I suppose. There are really no guarentees that the chooks in question had a better life, the only way to guarentee that is to raise and kill your own, sometimes I think it's more important to change consumer mentalities and get people used to paying more for what they believe is ethically farmed produce. It's a bit farcical but since I believe the consumer attitudes are the priority (and the most important indicator of long term success of the ideal) at this point in time I'm just happy to see something labelled as free range and actually getting a market share. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raz Posted June 12, 2010 Share Posted June 12, 2010 Lol baby steps raz Hey I'm not knocking you, Woof. I think it's great that fast food companies are getting people thinking. Good for you, but still laughing that people think they're getting 100% pure beef when they chomp into a 'two beef patty special sauce lettuce cheese pickles on a sesame seed bun. I think they're getting a little bit more than a company name that stamps it's product with beef, dont you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staranais Posted June 12, 2010 Share Posted June 12, 2010 Lol baby steps raz I guess I support the *ideal* of free range, we can iron out the details once it's more of a mainstream product I suppose. There are really no guarentees that the chooks in question had a better life, the only way to guarentee that is to raise and kill your own, sometimes I think it's more important to change consumer mentalities and get people used to paying more for what they believe is ethically farmed produce. You do have a point. The way I figure it is that a "free range" chook may or may not have a good life, but I know that a cage one hasn't had one. We actually had an industry spin doctor from the (battery) egg chicken producers federation come to talk to my vet class last year & tell us why we shouldn't believe the hype from free range farmers, because cage chickens were just as happy as free range ones in their own way. His argument were... how shall I put this politely... not terribly convincing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dame Aussie Posted June 12, 2010 Author Share Posted June 12, 2010 Very true, ultimately the consumer choice dictates whether a method will be widely taken up, I had a free range burger from red rooster the other day it was delicious it was about $7 but a normal burger is usually about $5 so it's only $2 difference, sadly I don't think it will be permanent it seems to be more of a 'promotion' rather than permanently on the menu although I'm happy to be proven wrong I'd like it if there were free range options for all the products rather than just one type of burger.I noticed woolies had a free range cooked chook on their little hot bench the other day - the same price as the other cooked chooks! I love picking up a hot chook so it's awesome to have it available - hopefully this trend will continue I'd like to see ethically farmed meat across the board but this is one small step as they say I think the trend will continue, just like it has with eggs - now that more and more people are wanting to buy free range eggs rather than caged, I've noticed them becoming more and more available in the supermarkets round here, which I think is great. Very true, I've noticed that too, you can get free range eggs at the supermarket for pretty much the same price as some cage ones so it's a step in the right direction! I'm just glad my thread hasn't turned ugly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~Anne~ Posted June 12, 2010 Share Posted June 12, 2010 (edited) I've been a vegetarian for 11 years for ethical/health reasons and recently became vegan. After a conversation with an aquaintance, I got to wondering what peoples opinions were about feeding dogs a vegan diet?I would never do it, but was speaking to someone who does and says if done properly it's fine. So anyone here know anyone who has their dogs on a vegan diet? What do you think about it? Is it wrong?/stupid/possible/irresponsible? I personally know a vegan who feeds her dogs a vegan (vegetarian??) diet and they are incredibly healthy dogs. It can be done, however, unless you have the knowledge I wouldn't risk it. I can guarantee 100% that these dogs are healthy and happy in every conceivable way and that their diet has been a great thing for them. One was a rescue that I re-homed. If you would like to hear more about what they are fed I am happy to speak to my friend and ask if she can give you a few tips. Edited June 12, 2010 by ~Anne~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WoofnHoof Posted June 12, 2010 Share Posted June 12, 2010 Lol baby steps raz Hey I'm not knocking you, Woof. I think it's great that fast food companies are getting people thinking. Good for you, but still laughing that people think they're getting 100% pure beef when they chomp into a 'two beef patty special sauce lettuce cheese pickles on a sesame seed bun. I think they're getting a little bit more than a company name that stamps it's product with beef, dont you? True, it's amazing what you can call a product and get away with it, although kudos for maccas they are very good at covering their arses being proactive in terms of welfare at least they audit their abattoirs so that's something. Lol baby steps raz I guess I support the *ideal* of free range, we can iron out the details once it's more of a mainstream product I suppose. There are really no guarentees that the chooks in question had a better life, the only way to guarentee that is to raise and kill your own, sometimes I think it's more important to change consumer mentalities and get people used to paying more for what they believe is ethically farmed produce. You do have a point. The way I figure it is that a "free range" chook may or may not have a good life, but I know that a cage one hasn't had one. We actually had an industry spin doctor from the (battery) egg chicken producers federation come to talk to my vet class last year & tell us why we shouldn't believe the hype from free range farmers, because cage chickens were just as happy as free range ones in their own way. His argument were... how shall I put this politely... not terribly convincing. Yeah there was a similar talk at the AAWS conference, it was interesting some of the points are valid re certain diseases and group size issues but overall definetly not convincing enough to justify the cage situation. I used to live down the road from a free range chook farm nothing nicer than riding past and seeing a whole bunch of chooks being chooks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DerRottweiler Posted June 12, 2010 Share Posted June 12, 2010 (edited) Dogs need protein. Meat= Protein. Open/shut case. Edited June 12, 2010 by DerRottwelier Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~Anne~ Posted June 12, 2010 Share Posted June 12, 2010 Meat is not the only food type that contains high level of protein DeRottwelier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashanali Posted June 12, 2010 Share Posted June 12, 2010 Lol baby steps raz Hey I'm not knocking you, Woof. I think it's great that fast food companies are getting people thinking. Good for you, but still laughing that people think they're getting 100% pure beef when they chomp into a 'two beef patty special sauce lettuce cheese pickles on a sesame seed bun. I think they're getting a little bit more than a company name that stamps it's product with beef, dont you? You forgot the onions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DerRottweiler Posted June 12, 2010 Share Posted June 12, 2010 (edited) Meat is not the only food type that contains high level of protein DeRottwelier. Sorry meat, chicken, fish, eggs etc. Vegetables can also contain protein, but is has a low biovalue (so can pretty much be useless) Edited June 12, 2010 by DerRottwelier Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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