International Judges

[ophnbark]

Oh yes, we have had domestic judges comment on the coloureds and say that a Schipp should be black. Hello, read the standard. We've also had them say that they don't like the tails.

[nynka]

you just never know until you give it a go.

[SpikesPuppy]

I find it interesting with the smooth Collie as in the USA the Rough and Smooth have an identical standard, with the only difference being coat. However here the standards have some significant differences (major ones being temperament & ear size). With Nessa being very European in type, there is little point in entering under a US/CANADIAN judge IMO.

The sizes are also different in the US standard to ours.

While I believe color is relatively unimportant in the scheme of things (although I also understand perception of a dog because of it's color or markings certainly has an impact), I also understand that when there are significant physical differences between standards (ears, size, tails (I believe some standards still only state must be docked??) etc it would be difficult for a judge not to be drawn to the dog that physically resembles the majority that they have seen/spent the last decade or more judging etc.

In Borders for eg here we allow a level bite and flesh colored nose however in the US bite must be scissor and nose black... So one would hope that if the best dog here on the day had a level bite or flesh nose it would not be penalized for it.

I have often wondered what international judges think of a breed like Tenterfields tho as I'm not sure of they have been accepted anywhere else in the World?

Likewise Jack Russells with the Parson being accepted in more places than the JRT.

Basically, if it's a show I enjoy or consider important (royal, Sunbury, specialty etc) I'll enter regardless of the judge. Because you never know what they are going to do- a good judge will spot a good dog regardless of where they are from. If they are unsure about the color, they can check the standard.

At the end of the day, the good dogs stand out to everyone

[Bilbo Baggins]

I asked a fellow exibhitor to trim one of our dogs feet for the up coming champ show. His comment do not worry the English Judges like them with snow shoes. I will do it after the show.

[SparkyTansy]

I asked a fellow exibhitor to trim one of our dogs feet for the up coming champ show. His comment do not worry the English Judges like them with snow shoes. I will do it after the show.

BB correct me if i am wrong but I thought that the Cavalier didn't require trimming at all?(sry slightly off topic!)

I enter under most internationals... however I know which countries i have a better chance with based on my dogs type... but i still find most internationals will give you a fair go and in most circumstances, they take different types into consideration and follow the ANKC standards.

Edited June 10, 2010 by SparkyTansy

[Dogsfevr]

I asked a fellow exibhitor to trim one of our dogs feet for the up coming champ show. His comment do not worry the English Judges like them with snow shoes. I will do it after the show.

Go on trim,i did

[SwaY]

I asked a fellow exibhitor to trim one of our dogs feet for the up coming champ show. His comment do not worry the English Judges like them with snow shoes. I will do it after the show.

TRIM THEM! They look so much nicer

[Shaar]

I like international judges... mainly because of that thing we aren't allowed to talk about here... hint: it starts with p and ends in olitics.

If they have a completely different breed type in another country and all the aussie dogs generally look the same then it really doesn't matter... you are all still in the same boat.

Cresteds are one that do vary greatly though... especially with grooming believe it or not.

[Wazzat Xolo]

given how standards vary worldwide it wouldnt bother me,many people dont often realize that some internationals they show under arent qualified in ther own country award CC to every breed ,they need to meet a set percentage ie 85% (could be less)& can do the whole grp.this %was lower a few years back'

many breeds often arent reconized & in the US/UK are shown on the special register until upgraded which is many breeds we consider normal hereAmerican English Coonhound Cane Corso Cesky Terrier Entlebucher Mountain Dog Finnish Lapphund

American English Coonhound Cane Corso Cesky Terrier Entlebucher

Mountain Dog Finnish Lapphund

Icelandic Sheepdog Leonberger Norwegian Lundehund Russell Terrier Treeing Walker Coonhound

Icelandic

Sheepdog Leonberger Norwegian

Lundehund Russell Terrier Treeing Walker

Coonhound

Xoloitzcuintli

The above is the US breeds

The Xoloitzcuintle ( AUS) Xoloitzcuintli ( US) will be recognised from Misc class to full class AKC come Jan 1st 2011 after many years in the back seat !!

Edited June 10, 2010 by Wazzat Xolo

[Entourage]

Cresteds are one that do vary greatly though... especially with grooming believe it or not.

Quite true, Some have their powderpuffs looking like a old english sheepdogs. Grooming with hairless depends on if you have hairless whom you can clean up the day before the show or hairy hairless which needs shaving half an hour before judging and then another shave to get rid of the 5 O'Clock shadow before specials!

[angelsun]

yes and I still am amazed at how one kennel will not clean off faces so they always appear to have a beard. I personally always liked a cleaned face.

True hairless don't do as well in Canada, unfortunately the judges like the 'pretty pony' look of the hairy hairless.

As for collies, both varieties (coat) coming from the same litter makes the standard necessary to be the same other than coat.

Size seems to be an issue with many breeds, with the larger ones generally appearing in North America. My breed for example, allows three inches in the states, two in Canada and then two here, (but the start/end point are shorter here) Does make it very tricky, but isn't that the whole challenge in breeding to show?

[SpikesPuppy]

As for collies, both varieties (coat) coming from the same litter makes the standard necessary to be the same other than coat.

only a handful of countries allow interbreeding of the two breeds and the Majority of countries have separate standards for both breeds. The breeds were also developed from stock used for different purposes (rough as a sheepdog and the smooth as a cattle drover) and THEN interbred.

Compare the two breed standards we have here on Australia and you will notice the differences, the entenddd standard (combining both standards and pointing out the aimilarities and distinct differences is very interesting). IMO a smooth should never look like a shaved Rough. At least not here in Australia.

With Borders, one major contradiction between standards is the tail- one standard is "set on high but never over the back" the other is "tail not set on too high", now as is the case for most dogs, tailset can have a huge impact on the entire outline of the animal and I would imagine if you were used to seeing perhaps tails set level with the back and you are presented with dogs with highset tails, you might be a little lost.

Wouldn't it be nice if we all had the same standards worldwide lol.

Edited June 10, 2010 by SpikesPuppy

[Bohunt]

With Borders, one major contradiction between standards is the tail- one standard is "set on high but never over the back" the other is "tail not set on too high", now as is the case for most dogs, tailset can have a huge impact on the entire outline of the animal and I would imagine if you were used to seeing perhaps tails set level with the back and you are presented with dogs with highset tails, you might be a little lost.

Wouldn't it be nice if we all had the same standards worldwide lol.

With the Borders the biggest issue and difference is the mouth. It is just as correct to have a level bite as a scissor bite and this is clearly stated in the breed standard. The Canadians and Americans have made a scissor bite only in the standard. The Brits did this from the beginning to keep the otter head and I have noticed over the years (as the Americans have stopped importing from UK) that the heads have elongated and they have lost that special head which is what the breed is about.

In Australia we see many BTs with very long fore-faces and this is a results of never keeping a level bite and shorter muzzles - many are so concerned with winning in the ring and most judges want to see scissor bites. Yes, it is a pain to breed a litter and have mouths go undershot but that is the price to pay for a correct head. Maybe we sometimes try and please too many people (and maybe the wrong ones) in the pursuit of glory.

I am currently looking at my 3 pups I have run on, from a litter of 4, waiting until the mouths change for this very reason. I cannot see them all having good bites despite them being fine at this stage.

I agree Elsa - the breed standards should all be the same and the country of origin should determine what it should be.

[angelsun]

I agree Elsa - the breed standards should all be the same and the country of origin should determine what it should be.

I agree and the tricky part of this is that larger countries with higher numbers of dogs in the breed determine what the standard ends up. I watched the Manchester standard be changed to fit better with what was currently being bred in the states. From a phrase that said "square dog" to a new phrase which states "slightly longer than tall". From a statement that a tail must never be carried over the back but down and out in a gentle curve, to the standard that talks about a tail that can be carried high and upright.

This made it difficult in a country (Canada) which did not change the standard when you wanted to head south of the border to compete and found your multi group placing or best in show dog got snubbed because it was "square"

My current breed standard comes from the FCI and has very few changes (clarifying in grammar), however my former southern counterparts took the standard prior to the breeds recognition there and changed a lot, less than a decade later, it's undergone more changes and doesn't appear too close to the original in many ways, including a statement that "aggression between dogs is not considered a fault" when the original described the breed as "happy, gay and inclined to play"

I watched Samoyeds grow bigger and develop more dripping soft coat in the states. The same with Golden Retrievers. standards didn't change per sae, but taste and what the judge rewarded did, and as a result we watch the breed change. Still correct to a point, but it depends on how fussy you get with interpretation of the standard.

One of the most vivid changes most agree to, is in the German Shepherd who's standard we use here from the country of origin and yet, North American standards, by written word are very different, and yet, the dogs visually appear more of less the same in most aspects, and the true indication that they fit here as well is the recent imports popping up that have no issues with winning challenges and yet have generations of north american blood/breeding behind them, which one would presume is following their countries breed standard.

Comment on the collies....as I was mentored in grooming by a collie(rough) breeder, they did not interbreed between coat varieties however there were smooths born in their rough litters and they were quickly petted out as these breeders attempted to curtail this further in their lines.

In the US, interbreeding is permitted between size varieties of dachshunds, another breed that the standards there are the same other than size and coat. Canada has six varieties as does here, however I was witness to some smooth coats coming out of wire/wire breeding.

I think this is where things get so confusing as our world shrinks and we see dogs or their semen being sent around the globe, that unless the dog world as a whole can decide on a breed standard and STICK TO IT, not being tempted to change it (because someone has the power within an organization) to fit more of what is being bred, not what SHOULD be bred, we will continue to face these breeding challenges.

For me personally, I'm bringing back my line that I established in Canada that did exceptionally well. The dogs hit the top of the 50cm mark. Our standard here is less....my concern for the next number of generations is to use the lines I had, breed the quality I did, but bring the size down a shade so it fits the standard here. I know it won't be easy and I know that I'll choose the wrong puppy from time to time, but hopefully I get it right more than I get it wrong! Would I lobby to have the standard changed? Of course not.....I'll just accept the challenge of breeding the same dog in a different country with a slightly different set of rules and move forward the best I can.

[Bilbo Baggins]

I asked a fellow exibhitor to trim one of our dogs feet for the up coming champ show. His comment do not worry the English Judges like them with snow shoes. I will do it after the show.

BB correct me if i am wrong but I thought that the Cavalier didn't require trimming at all?(sry slightly off topic!)

I enter under most internationals... however I know which countries i have a better chance with based on my dogs type... but i still find most internationals will give you a fair go and in most circumstances, they take different types into consideration and follow the ANKC standards.

If they have to much leg feathering they look as though they are down on their pasterns.

Some people keep the feet clipped but I like some slippers.

Do trim between the pads though otherwise they slip.

[RallyValley]

given how standards vary worldwide it wouldnt bother me,many people dont often realize that some internationals they show under arent qualified in ther own country award CC to every breed ,they need to meet a set percentage ie 85% (could be less)& can do the whole grp.this %was lower a few years back'

many breeds often arent reconized & in the US/UK are shown on the special register until upgraded which is many breeds we consider normal hereAmerican English Coonhound Cane Corso Cesky Terrier Entlebucher Mountain Dog Finnish Lapphund

American English Coonhound Cane Corso Cesky Terrier Entlebucher

Mountain Dog Finnish Lapphund

Icelandic Sheepdog Leonberger Norwegian Lundehund Russell Terrier Treeing Walker Coonhound

Icelandic

Sheepdog Leonberger Norwegian

Lundehund Russell Terrier Treeing Walker

Coonhound

Xoloitzcuintli

The above is the US breeds

The Xoloitzcuintle ( AUS) Xoloitzcuintli ( US) will be recognised from Misc class to full class AKC come Jan 1st 2011 after many years in the back seat !!

Pretty sure the Entlebucher will be going into the herding group Jan 1st 2011 too.

[SpikesPuppy]

Comment on the collies....as I was mentored in grooming by a collie(rough) breeder, they did not interbreed between coat varieties however there were smooths born in their rough litters and they were quickly petted out as these breeders attempted to curtail this further in their lines.

A smooth cannot be born via 2 rough parents, however a rough can be born to 2 smooths. A smooth/rough mating can produce anything.

Different countries have different regulations about te interbreeding, registration of puppies (some countres require rough pups from smooth-smooth to be registered as smooths), and also on importation of pups born from smooth/rough matings.

Here in Australia we can interbreed & register each puppy based on it's coat type.

[Wazzat Xolo]

I asked a fellow exibhitor to trim one of our dogs feet for the up coming champ show. His comment do not worry the English Judges like them with snow shoes. I will do it after the show.

BB correct me if i am wrong but I thought that the Cavalier didn't require trimming at all?(sry slightly off topic!)

I enter under most internationals... however I know which countries i have a better chance with based on my dogs type... but i still find most internationals will give you a fair go and in most circumstances, they take different types into consideration and follow the ANKC standards.

If they have to much leg feathering they look as though they are down on their pasterns.

Some people keep the feet clipped but I like some slippers.

Do trim between the pads though otherwise they slip.

ahh sod it just get a Xoloitzcuintle then there is nothing to clip, shave, buff, powder, poof up, comb, brush, hairspray, tie up, tease but best of all I can run with two free hands ( I mean I would look slly with a hairbrush now wouldnt I!)

Maybe I should run around the ring with some baby oils!!

:D

[Bilbo Baggins]

I asked a fellow exibhitor to trim one of our dogs feet for the up coming champ show. His comment do not worry the English Judges like them with snow shoes. I will do it after the show.

BB correct me if i am wrong but I thought that the Cavalier didn't require trimming at all?(sry slightly off topic!)

I enter under most internationals... however I know which countries i have a better chance with based on my dogs type... but i still find most internationals will give you a fair go and in most circumstances, they take different types into consideration and follow the ANKC standards.

If they have to much leg feathering they look as though they are down on their pasterns.

Some people keep the feet clipped but I like some slippers.

Do trim between the pads though otherwise they slip.

ahh sod it just get a Xoloitzcuintle then there is nothing to clip, shave, buff, powder, poof up, comb, brush, hairspray, tie up, tease but best of all I can run with two free hands ( I mean I would look slly with a hairbrush now wouldnt I!)

Maybe I should run around the ring with some baby oils!!

;) :D :D ;)

[angelsun]

Comment on the collies....as I was mentored in grooming by a collie(rough) breeder, they did not interbreed between coat varieties however there were smooths born in their rough litters and they were quickly petted out as these breeders attempted to curtail this further in their lines.

A smooth cannot be born via 2 rough parents, however a rough can be born to 2 smooths. A smooth/rough mating can produce anything.

Different countries have different regulations about te interbreeding, registration of puppies (some countres require rough pups from smooth-smooth to be registered as smooths), and also on importation of pups born from smooth/rough matings.

Here in Australia we can interbreed & register each puppy based on it's coat type.

my mistake (typo) meant it the other way....this is what I get when trying to type a thought after not a lot of sleep! sorry!