International Judges

[Miss B]

I'm just wondering how people feel about entering under International judges when your breed is not recognised in their home country.

[Dogsfevr]

given how standards vary worldwide it wouldnt bother me,many people dont often realize that some internationals they show under arent qualified in ther own country award CC to every breed ,they need to meet a set percentage ie 85% (could be less)& can do the whole grp.this %was lower a few years back'

many breeds often arent reconized & in the US/UK are shown on the special register until upgraded which is many breeds we consider normal hereAmerican English Coonhound Cane Corso Cesky Terrier Entlebucher Mountain Dog Finnish Lapphund

American English Coonhound Cane Corso Cesky Terrier Entlebucher

Mountain Dog Finnish Lapphund

Icelandic Sheepdog Leonberger Norwegian Lundehund Russell Terrier Treeing Walker Coonhound

Icelandic

Sheepdog Leonberger Norwegian

Lundehund Russell Terrier Treeing Walker

Coonhound

Xoloitzcuintli

The above is the US breeds

[SkySoaringMagpie]

I'm just wondering how people feel about entering under International judges when your breed is not recognised in their home country.

It would depend a bit on what their background was and whether it's a speciality or not. Too many variables to answer the question without knowing more!

[Bohunt]

As a breed, we collectively groan when we see that the judge is Canadian or American as their breed standard is significantly different to ours as we follow the country of origin (and the rest of the world). They are supposed to read and take ours on board but judging reflects that this rarely happens.

Always been a problem and will no doubt continue to be one. I just vote with my feet.

[DLB]

You showing at Durack on the weekend under the international judges?

[angelsun]

The nice thing about judges from other countries, is they don't know the faces on the end of the lead.....there is a lot to be said for that, as sometimes knowing the breed standard inside and out, isn't why one dog is winning, versus another.

I'll take international judges anyday, regardless of if they've ever seen a GP or not...at least I know that probably because theyve been given a schedule of breeds they must judge, theyv'e cracked the books and read the standard, but mostly because I know that if mine is the first of the breed they are going to see, I know I'll show them something correct, even if they don't know it....but the next time they judge, perhaps they will remember.

[Diva]

The nice thing about judges from other countries, is they don't know the faces on the end of the lead.....

I'm not even sure that is always true anymore, I know in my breed a lot of the top dogs and their handlers are advertised heavily world-wide.

Edited June 8, 2010 by Diva

[RallyValley]

I am really excited that coming up I have a Canadian and Mexican judge. Having a breed that is rare here but pretty normal in North America it makes me happy that someone who has seen the breed and knows it well will be out to judge my dog. Last time we had international judges (Canadian and Swedish) they said some really nice comments about my boy.

[conztruct]

I'm just wondering how people feel about entering under International judges when your breed is not recognised in their home country.

To me - it's just like entering under any judge - most have different interpretations of the breed standards. Why not give them a try - it's not like you're going to come under them regularly.

If your breed isn't recognised in their home country I guess that would be interesting - you'd hope that maybe then they'll have put a fair bit of effort into becoming familiar with the standard but that's an assumption which in reality probably wouldn't always be the case.

[Dogsfevr]

I am really excited that coming up I have a Canadian and Mexican judge. Having a breed that is rare here but pretty normal in North America it makes me happy that someone who has seen the breed and knows it well will be out to judge my dog. :D Last time we had international judges (Canadian and Swedish) they said some really nice comments about my boy.

The Canadian isnt coming ,the replacement judge hasnt been advised yet

[Guest CaptainCourageous]

For my breed it's whether or not coat colour is recognised. I usually can't be bothered entering a non-black under any judge from a country that doesn't recognise non-blacks.

CC

[SkySoaringMagpie]

The nice thing about judges from other countries, is they don't know the faces on the end of the lead.....

I'm not even sure that is always true anymore, I know in my breed a lot of the top dogs and their handlers are advertised heavily world-wide.

Agree with Diva that within a breed or breed group like sighthounds the faces can be very well known. Some of the "faces" in my breed and OH's breed are breed leaders not just locally, but globally.

However, the further out you go from your breed, the less people know and many just don't care even if they do know, thank god.

[Kelza]

The nice thing about judges from other countries, is they don't know the faces on the end of the lead.....

I'm not even sure that is always true anymore, I know in my breed a lot of the top dogs and their handlers are advertised heavily world-wide.

My pet hate is spending time and money going under a judge to find they are judging faces and not dogs. This is extremely disapointing, especially as it is generally so obvious. Win or lose I like walking out of the ring knowing the judge made a decision on the dog and not the handler.

I tend to find International judges (more often than not) judge the dogs, decide on what appeals to them and their interpretation of the standard and tend to have consistancy in their judging because it is all about the dog.

At the end on the day we have a breed standard, but no matter where the judge is from it comes down to their opinion of the best dog that fits the standard, you may not take home everything but it I think you should give internationals a go even if the breed it's recognised in their home country there is a good chance they have judged some where that your breed is recognised.

It's the joy of showing, it is nice not knowing who will win! Good luck if you decide to enter.

[conztruct]

The nice thing about judges from other countries, is they don't know the faces on the end of the lead.....

I'm not even sure that is always true anymore, I know in my breed a lot of the top dogs and their handlers are advertised heavily world-wide.

It might be an overly rosey view of things but if a judge is any good it shouldn't matter whether they know the faces on the end of the lead or not........

[Entourage]

My pet hate is spending time and money going under a judge to find they are judging faces and not dogs. This is extremely disapointing, especially as it is generally so obvious. Win or lose I like walking out of the ring knowing the judge made a decision on the dog and not the handler.

I tend to find International judges (more often than not) judge the dogs, decide on what appeals to them and their interpretation of the standard and tend to have consistancy in their judging because it is all about the dog.

At the end on the day we have a breed standard, but no matter where the judge is from it comes down to their opinion of the best dog that fits the standard, you may not take home everything but it I think you should give internationals a go even if the breed it's recognised in their home country there is a good chance they have judged some where that your breed is recognised.

I have found this with the cresteds, i have a better chance with the internationals because of non 'face judging' but in saying that i have come across an international judge who i beleive had never judged Cresteds before and she was from Canada.

Many years ago when we were showing kelpies at an Australia day show, we had a Canadian judge and she asked me whether my male (who was dog CC winner) or the bitch CC winner was the best! being a gobsmacked 12 year old i answered with 'Both dogs are equal, your the judge, its your decision' So she give the BOB to the bitch! My mother asked me what the conversation was about and was fuming! luckily the rep on the day calmed my mum down. But ill always remember that!

[ophnbark]

For my breed it's whether or not coat colour is recognised. I usually can't be bothered entering a non-black under any judge from a country that doesn't recognise non-blacks.

CC

Ah yes, we all remember the Canadian judge at the Schipp club show a couple of years ago saying at presentation that coloureds and tails weren't allowed in her country so that was the way she judged. Wish I had known before I wasted all of that money on entry fees We've been under Canadians with creams before and they have loved them but not so this judge.

[angelsun]

Like any judge, they have their prejudices in either colour, ear style or tails on/off. Doesn't seem to matter where they come from, they either like a certain dog for what it is regardless of colour/ear style/tail on or off, or they don't.

All too often, losing exhibitors are quick to blame the judge for not judging to the countries standard to which they are in, when in fact the dog may simply not be in the eyes of that judge, a good example of the breed and they found another they like better.

I've had many people where colour is a factor in their breed go on and on about how their chosen colour is ignored and that it can't win because it's X (insert not the status quo colour) when in fact they need to look at the reality that their dog either hasn't got the front the competator has, or the head, or the rear etc....they are so strung up on colour as their reason for losing, that they fail to take into account that there may be other reasons as to why they do not come out on top.

when I lived in North America, I always went to foreign judges because again, I felt it was a fair shot at the dog being judged, not who I was (because I was at that time, very well advertised in the doggie mags) I remember showing a cropped dog to a judge from Europe that you could tell was dead against cropped ears, so much that they pushed the lovely pointed crown down against the side of the dogs head (I wasn't the only breed that had this done) and then looked at the head with the ears in the position this judge felt they should be. I thought at the time, that's it...I'm toast....but clearly other than the ears which they did not like, they liked the rest of the dog. Others that had this happen to and lost, were quick to point out loudly that the judge should be judging to OUR standard which permits cropping and that they clearly lost because their dog was cropped. Imagine their surprise when I told them I had not lost and in fact was placed quite high in the group that day.....guess that arguement didn't hold much, and perhaps that judge found something else, other than the cropped ears, that they did not like.

[ophnbark]

Like any judge, they have their prejudices in either colour, ear style or tails on/off. Doesn't seem to matter where they come from, they either like a certain dog for what it is regardless of colour/ear style/tail on or off, or they don't.

All too often, losing exhibitors are quick to blame the judge for not judging to the countries standard to which they are in, when in fact the dog may simply not be in the eyes of that judge, a good example of the breed and they found another they like better.

I've had many people where colour is a factor in their breed go on and on about how their chosen colour is ignored and that it can't win because it's X (insert not the status quo colour) when in fact they need to look at the reality that their dog either hasn't got the front the competator has, or the head, or the rear etc....they are so strung up on colour as their reason for losing, that they fail to take into account that there may be other reasons as to why they do not come out on top.

when I lived in North America, I always went to foreign judges because again, I felt it was a fair shot at the dog being judged, not who I was (because I was at that time, very well advertised in the doggie mags) I remember showing a cropped dog to a judge from Europe that you could tell was dead against cropped ears, so much that they pushed the lovely pointed crown down against the side of the dogs head (I wasn't the only breed that had this done) and then looked at the head with the ears in the position this judge felt they should be. I thought at the time, that's it...I'm toast....but clearly other than the ears which they did not like, they liked the rest of the dog. Others that had this happen to and lost, were quick to point out loudly that the judge should be judging to OUR standard which permits cropping and that they clearly lost because their dog was cropped. Imagine their surprise when I told them I had not lost and in fact was placed quite high in the group that day.....guess that arguement didn't hold much, and perhaps that judge found something else, other than the cropped ears, that they did not like.

I agree but when a judge clearly states that she disregarded coloureds and tails because they weren't allowed in her country she makes it pretty clear what her decisions were based on.

[Dogsfevr]

I agree but when a judge clearly states that she disregarded coloureds and tails because they weren't allowed in her country she makes it pretty clear what her decisions were based on.

How many australian judges do the same ??

I can certainly list plenty ,it isnt an overseas special thing

[angelsun]

I have to agree. When you have a domestic judge comment on the colour of the dog you are showing by saying "I have never seen this colour before" and yet is introduced as a group specialist? Truly things that make you go 'mmmmmmm'.