Vetting Potential Owners

[aussielover]

Awesome information everyone.

I do think the "informal chat" vetting seems a great idea. People DO spill more when they don't think they are being quizzed and without realising will open up a lot anyway.

I personally am a very open person - no question bothers me and I often will offer information people don't want to hear LOL. I am honest too which could work against me I suppose when going for a breeder, i.e. if I was asked "has your dog ever got off the property", I would say yes because they have. That is a silly example but you know what I mean - some of my honest answers may not be ideal to someone trying to assess me LOL.

I am curious about the references idea too....how would one go about getting references for their dogs? I mean, I only know people in NZ (have not managed to make any friends in Oz yet) and th evet has only known us for a year so how would I get a reference? What if I didn't have a reference?

Do you look at current dogs if they already own dogs to see the relationship between owner and pet etc?

I guess a character reference from an employer would be a start. When I applied to be a foster carer they wanted references from my vets, employer etc.

[Sheridan]

One thing I didn't mention before. The breeder was in Sth Australia so I wasn't going to get to meet him but he suggested we visit a breeder friend of his in Melbourne to 'see a wheaten in his home environment'. This, of course, was an assessment but it meant I got to see a wheaten and a kerry living together and thus was my quest to have the perfect doggy household cemented. I got a phone call the next day to say we'd gone to the top of the list. :rolleyes:

[shortstep]

If I were ever to source a dog from rescue, or some breeders, for example, I would never admit to working full time. Firstly, it's none of their business, and secondly in some cases, it's an immediate dismissal.

I do hope, if you intend to breed that no one ever lies to you about something you feel in important in the placement of your pups.

I would advise strongly to anyone looking to get a pup to never lie to the breeders or rescue.

If you feel they want to know something that is not their buisness then tell them so, but do not lie.

If you feel the truth would lead to them not placeing a dog with you, then it is vital you do not lie.

Besides you will likely get caught out by most caring breeders. You would only fool breeders who did not care if they got lied too and they in fact would be the kind that might be lying to you about something very important....think about it.

[lanabanana]

Awesome information everyone.

I do think the "informal chat" vetting seems a great idea. People DO spill more when they don't think they are being quizzed and without realising will open up a lot anyway.

I personally am a very open person - no question bothers me and I often will offer information people don't want to hear LOL. I am honest too which could work against me I suppose when going for a breeder, i.e. if I was asked "has your dog ever got off the property", I would say yes because they have. That is a silly example but you know what I mean - some of my honest answers may not be ideal to someone trying to assess me LOL.

I am curious about the references idea too....how would one go about getting references for their dogs? I mean, I only know people in NZ (have not managed to make any friends in Oz yet) and th evet has only known us for a year so how would I get a reference? What if I didn't have a reference?

Do you look at current dogs if they already own dogs to see the relationship between owner and pet etc?

I guess a character reference from an employer would be a start. When I applied to be a foster carer they wanted references from my vets, employer etc.

Really, an employer? I personally think a reference from an employer is a bit OTT but that's just me. Maybe a friend or family member but an employer??!!

[Lucy's mama]

I'd be quite happy to have a home check and discussion instead of being judged solely on what is written on the application. I have filled one out very fully and never got responded to and it just leaves me wondering what exactly is wrong with my home? With no feed back I can not clarify the situation or learn why particular things should be changed.

Edited June 6, 2010 by Lucy's mama

[Gayle.]

I do hope, if you intend to breed that no one ever lies to you about something you feel in important in the placement of your pups.

I did not say I'd lie, I said I wouldn't admit to it. Very big difference. And where I work, anything under 35 hours a week is part time. Fulltime work isn't always business hours either. I have worked very long hours in jobs that were not business hours.

I have, over the past decade, bought a number of pedigree cats and dogs from registered, ethical breeders. None have ever questioned my work hours, all were realistic in their expectations....the cat breeders requested the cats not be allowed outdoors, one of the dog breeders requested I take the pup to obedience classes and another suggested I might like to show the pup.

None have ever requested references, nor would I be obliging them if they did. I'd just move on to source a pet elsewhere.

I guess a character reference from an employer would be a start. When I applied to be a foster carer they wanted references from my vets, employer etc.

I take it that's a joke.

[Ker]

I'm not a breeder, but I am a rescuer who is very particular about where my foster dogs go.

I start by generally talking about their life, their other pets and what they do - all in a very non-threatening way. I don't ask about their income, but you can usually get an idea of their financial status and their pets importance with questions relating to grooming/food etc. If they fail the first lot of informal chats, they don't pass any further. If they pass that, they are invited to meet the dog, and to bring their other dog (if any) to meet them. If they pass that, THEN they get a home visit. Only after that does the dog go with them. I have had a couple of dogs that still needed more training, so I kept them while I continued (usually 2 to 4 weeks). If they weren't prepared to wait, then they were the wrong people.

I always do home visits and always check out the other family pets. You can tell a lot about the person by looking at their other pets. My most recent foster passed with flying colours because of the fact that their dog was well fed, well groomed and perfectly trained and they adored him. Also, the woman got down on the ground with the foster dog and didn't give a damn that she got mud all over her clothes. She barely noticed.

I get better results from not drilling the prospective adopters.

[shortstep]

I do hope, if you intend to breed that no one ever lies to you about something you feel in important in the placement of your pups.

I did not say I'd lie, I said I wouldn't admit to it. ......

None have ever requested references, nor would I be obliging them if they did. I'd just move on to source a pet elsewhere.

Well see I think it all works out for the best for both sides.

If anyone (who says the are not lying) but would not admit to or tell the turth about any topic that came up, then I would move on too. See it all works out for the best for both.

Working full time would not prevent me from placeing a pup (and it never has as most of my pups go to full time workers). But not telling me the truth on any question/topic would. BTW I do not ask for references, but you would be very surprised what I find out about someone before I will place a pup with them. And guess what, if I can not find out anything about them, then I do not place a pup with them. These are my babies and any games played by buyers would mean instant elminate.

Edited June 6, 2010 by shortstep

[ravenau1]

I start the process with a questionnaire which has about 20 questions on it. The most important questionnaire is what other pets have you had and what happened to them. That question alone tells you quite a lot about the home. I just adore the ones that say they are going to train their dogs t stay within the property without fences and then they state their last dog got run over. The questionnaire questions also have options which will immediately eliminate them from a puppy eg, what type of fencing do you have, one of the options is none but the dog will be confined by way of a running chain.

After I get that back if I think they are suitable (this eliminates about 80%) I will ring them and informally chat to them and get a feel for them. I ask for references and yes I do check them in some cases. If they are local at this stage I let them visit or I visit them with a couple of puppies. If they are not local I arrange a home check

While I understand the need for many questions and a great deal of communication between a potential buyer and the breeder, the 'home check' part of this process has me a bit concerned. If it isn't the breeder themselves doing the check would it be acceptable for me to ask to see a police clearance or the like before letting someone into my home? Or would it just be the yard they were checking? I have had a bad experience in the past when someone came out to look at something we had for sale (furniture) and was actually 'casing' the house and came back at a later date and broke in (many years ago though). I don't normally allow people I don't know into my house, and any tradesmen have to come from recognised, reputable companies and provide a clearance or reference. Would photographs or video be acceptable if the breeder wasn't able to visit themselves?

Go for your life. Check with previous buyers. Hire a PI if you like. If you are prepared to go to that length to get a dog from me, at least that shows you are serious.

But no, I wouldn't sign for anyone to do a police check. It would be easy for you to check to see if I was reputable in a business sense.

Little more to it than that, but again, something I wouldn't put on the internet.

Thanks for your reply Greytmate.

I if the breeder themselves were doing the check I wouldn't have the problem, I would be be dealing with a reputable, registered breeder who I would also be asking questions of and would be in contact with them regularly and would have to feel comfortable with them before I got pup from them anyway. It was more if the breeder couldn't do the home check, the person they would ask to do it - if in another state etc.

That is a good point.

I had trained Home Visitors, we would never send a random person out. There is privacy legislation that anyone doing Home Visits does need to be aware of too.

Ok, thanks There are obviously proper processes in place for this sort of thing. I'm learning all the time!

Awesome information everyone.

I do think the "informal chat" vetting seems a great idea. People DO spill more when they don't think they are being quizzed and without realising will open up a lot anyway.

I personally am a very open person - no question bothers me and I often will offer information people don't want to hear LOL. I am honest too which could work against me I suppose when going for a breeder, i.e. if I was asked "has your dog ever got off the property", I would say yes because they have. That is a silly example but you know what I mean - some of my honest answers may not be ideal to someone trying to assess me LOL.

I am curious about the references idea too....how would one go about getting references for their dogs? I mean, I only know people in NZ (have not managed to make any friends in Oz yet) and th evet has only known us for a year so how would I get a reference? What if I didn't have a reference?

Do you look at current dogs if they already own dogs to see the relationship between owner and pet etc?

I guess a character reference from an employer would be a start. When I applied to be a foster carer they wanted references from my vets, employer etc.

A vet I can understand, but an employer? Wow, I couldn't imagine asking my work for a reference for a puppy. I'm pretty sure if I started asking for references they'd be thinking I'm about to 'jump ship' or something.

[Guest Ams]

see imo

what sort of fence do you have?

the only right answer i found was 6' colour bond... which i can't afford. my yard is traditional farm fencing barb on some sections and normal netting on the sides... but the dogs are rarely alone in it any way....

oh the dog that i applied for that needed colour bond was a digger! wtf?

some people do have very set answers in mind when they ask and imo they get a x too bad so sad for the applicant. in the end i started answering yes.... in my mind that was not a huge lie because OH has one side on his yard. if i said colour bond every person who asked the fence question said great!

for me you do what ever is necessary, if that includes being arrested then so be it.

And it is this attitude that has cost me two tanks of fuel and a wasted weekend with THREE rescue dogs still looking for their forever homes. Even knowing a yard check was a requisite they lied on their application which cost me time and money (that I DONT have) in order to drive and find out they were not suitable. I don't ask for 6ft fences, but I do ask for secure fencing and it was extremely disappointing to find one fence was probably about 2ft at it's lowest and the other end wasn't even fastened to the end post.

eta. Sorry if this is abrupt but I put the dogs ahead of some wonderful personal life events I could have enjoyed far more than journeying around South East Queensland looking at inappropriate fencing for my dogs.

Edited June 6, 2010 by Ams

[Greytmate]

There are obviously proper processes in place for this sort of thing. I'm learning all the time!

Not all groups use or are aware of proper processes. But you can choose to deal with groups that do.

And it is this attitude that has cost me two tanks of fuel and a wasted weekend with THREE rescue dogs still looking for their forever homes. Even knowing a yard check was a requisite they lied on their application which cost me time and money (that I DONT have) in order to drive and find out they were not suitable. I don't ask for 6ft fences, but I do ask for secure fencing and it was extremely disappointing to find one fence was probably about 2ft at it's lowest and the other end wasn't even fastened to the end post.

eta. Sorry if this is abrupt but I put the dogs ahead of some wonderful personal life events I could have enjoyed far more than journeying around South East Queensland looking at inappropriate fencing for my dogs.

There are some groups in America now charging a $50 deposit before the Home Visit is done, to cover the costs of petrol and processing the application. That way if the applicant does not end up adopting, you haven't ended up out of pocket. I think the idea has merit.

I remember a man telling me on the phone that his fences were 1.8 metres. When I did the Home Visit, I saw that one fence was only 1.2 metres. He explained that it wasn't his fence, it was the neighbour's fence.

[voloclydes]

well one side is 6 foot netting the other only standard farm height.... which most city/townie dog owners its far to low.... none of my dogs can get over it or out it. a cow has recently trashed it yesterday.... let me tell you the cows owner will be repairing it as well. oh it has electric round the outside too to keep out horses. so if anyone climbs it they do tend to only do it once! all these factors while being standard in the bush are not understood or even approved of by town people, and will more than likely now get me flamed.... so hence the need to tell a fence fib!

imo it's dog proof. from my house it is over 3km to the road... i have 3 neighbours who are around most days so if they escaped they would be seen and caught... same as we have done for the neighbours.

i answered a million times on average 6 calls per day to people who wanted a million questions. most times to find dog was going to the best friends second cousin... not sure why they even bothered to ask.

i won't go down the rescue track ever again. i took huge amounts of time writing emails and making calls to which most never bothered to return the message or email. it took a huge chunk of my life for very little return.

[lanabanana]

Surely though sometimes a breeder will get a feeling for an owner (is this true?) and some other stuff may not be as important if the breeder thinks this person will supply the best home?

Breeders?

[Wazzat Xolo]

Sorry stupid fingers pressed too many times!!

Edited June 6, 2010 by Wazzat Xolo

[Wazzat Xolo]

Old age this time forgot I replied! lol

Edited June 6, 2010 by Wazzat Xolo

[Wazzat Xolo]

Surely though sometimes a breeder will get a feeling for an owner (is this true?) and some other stuff may not be as important if the breeder thinks this person will supply the best home?

Breeders?

Very True I guess in some csaes I have a lovely old couple who will definately be getting a Xolo puppy, everything about them is fantastic and they are willing to travel over here to collect the dog. They have put a lot of time and research into this breed and I consider it a great home, on the other hand I have people offering a lot of money for a dog, but thats all they have, nothing at all to offer the dog, these people will not even be cosidered for a dog as IMO they are not the dogs best options.

I am sure all breeders worth their salt want the best home for the puppy! after all they are like extended family!~

[Whipitgood]

Actually, GayleK, it is very much the business of the people rehoming a rescue or homing a puppy. Some dogs are simply not suited to being left home alone for long periods and some dogs will take to it with not a problem at all. It is essential that rehomers/homers know their dogs so they can put their dogs where all parties' needs will be met.

My sentiments exactly (in relation to a thread i started yesterday about how puppies cope when owners work FT, where i was shot down for having the cheek to decide not to sell my pups to people when they are at work all day every day! )

I generally meet my potential puppy families when they come to visit the pups at 4 weeks of age. They are encouraged to come and see the pups as often as they like till they go to their new homes. During that time i spend a lot of time with them, chatting about everything to do with owning a puppy, i get to know about their home lives, personal lives, lifestyle and their philosophies about raising dogs. I dont give anyone a list of questions, it is all done in a casual "getting to know you" manner. I find i gain a lot more knowledge about the family this way and most of my puppy families i am still in contact with, some are very good friends who's weddings ive been to and them to mine!!

The casual approach works for me. I dont do home visits, i think this is an invasion of privacy. I ask them about their yard etc but i figure if they are going to pay a substantial amount for a puppy, go to the trouble of finding a registered breeder, then they are smart enough to dog proof their home. I still give them tips on dog proofing their home in my puppy pack with a file of info. A lot of my pups go to families with kids, so their hoems are already puppy/child proof! But most people are not idiots and i respect that. If they have no idea, for instance i had a woman contact me enquiring about whippet pups recently, she had no fencing, lived on acreage with tiger snakes near water at the bottom of her block. She assumed whippets just laid indoors all day and wouldnt roam and were not hunters. Of course i corrected her and she is back to looking at 2 other breeds!

[NZVizsla]

It isn't so much that they "say the right things", it is more that they are open to learning "the right things".

We all have to start somewhere.

[Whipitgood]

Surely though sometimes a breeder will get a feeling for an owner (is this true?) and some other stuff may not be as important if the breeder thinks this person will supply the best home?

Breeders?

Yes and thats why i like to get to know them over a period of time, rather than giving them a formal questionaire which they can fudge anyway.

I can always get a sense of what sort of family and home my pups are going to within the first couple of visits. If im not happy or get a bad feeling, i will simply not sell them a puppy. I had a couple who were interested in a puppy for a long time and waited for almost a year to have one from a litter i had planned. I had screened them fairly well, or so i thought. When it came time for them to meet the pups, i finally met them in person (they lived rural) and over the course of the weeks they said many things that made me very uneasy. I eventually gained the courage to tell them i wasnt happy for them to have a puppy ( i felt terrible as they had waited so long). I have since found out that they got 2 whippets from a breeder interstate and have been breeding the bitch every season because "the demand for hunting whippets is so big up here and there are no breeders". Clearly they were in it for the cash and im so glad i listened to my gut feeling.

[lanabanana]

Yea good job gut huh!

That raises another query for me - how do you tell peopel you don't think they are suitable? Especially say a family who are really excited about getting a dog.