Recurring Cartrophen Injections After Cruciate Repair

[Tansy]

Just heard from one of my puppy buyers (dog is just under 2 yo now) that he needed a cruciate repair after suffering an injury (rough housing with the kids, and landed badly). It has only been a few weeks, so he is still in the recovery phase, but seems to be going OK. The vet is encouraging them to have regular cartophen injections to prevent the later onset of arthritis, and they have asked me if I think this is necessary. Unfortunately (or fortunately I guess!) I have no experience with with this, so not sure what to tell them.

The dog is beautifully maintained, at a correct weight, and has been very well brought up by his family.They have done some Obedience with him and were thinking about giving Agility a go. I know they will do whatever is best for him, but are just not sure if the injections are necessary, and for how long.

Does anyone have any experience in this regards?

[temperamentfirst]

Just heard from one of my puppy buyers (dog is just under 2 yo now) that he needed a cruciate repair after suffering an injury (rough housing with the kids, and landed badly). It has only been a few weeks, so he is still in the recovery phase, but seems to be going OK. The vet is encouraging them to have regular cartophen injections to prevent the later onset of arthritis, and they have asked me if I think this is necessary. Unfortunately (or fortunately I guess!) I have no experience with with this, so not sure what to tell them.

The dog is beautifully maintained, at a correct weight, and has been very well brought up by his family.They have done some Obedience with him and were thinking about giving Agility a go. I know they will do whatever is best for him, but are just not sure if the injections are necessary, and for how long.

Does anyone have any experience in this regards?

Sadly, I have, but in older dogs.

I would be wary of too much Cartrophen in such a young dog. Long term, it can damage the liver and kidneys.

Instead I'd be doing maybe one course after healing, then use supplements like glucosamine chondroiten and perhaps musseltone for inflammation if it develops.

If they really want to go the whole hog, it has been reported that using stem cells at the injury site will do wonders.

[montall]

My vet mentioned something similar after Tallulah's patella surgery but also suggested OsteoEze Active as a supplement instead of the injections if I wanted to go down that path. He stressed that it had to be the Active type which has Chondroitin (shark cartilage) added to the Glucosamine. Apparently the injections are pretty costly. I went with the OsteoEze.

[KJ]

I would be wary of too much Cartrophen in such a young dog. Long term, it can damage the liver and kidneys.

Instead I'd be doing maybe one course after healing, then use supplements like glucosamine chondroiten and perhaps musseltone for inflammation if it develops.

If they really want to go the whole hog, it has been reported that using stem cells at the injury site will do wonders.

Really?I have a 2 year old Lab who has monthly Cartrophen injections(and has done so for the for the last 12 months) and her vet and specialist have not ever mentioned that it can cause liver and kidney damage.

[Dogsfevr]

My guy gets it weekly with no issues at all

[Golden Rules]

My dog has had both cruciates done, the first one 3 years ago now - and he has had 3 monthly Cartrophen injections ever since - and he will continue for as long as he lives.

It is standard practice it seems, and considering you are talking about such a young dog, I would definitely be telling your puppy buyers/owners that yes it is necessary!

[Tiggy]

Sophie did her cruciate as a pup and is now going on 5. She's on a 4 week course of cartrophen at the moment, only needs it at the start of winter and only since last winter, and she has Joint Guard all year. I wouldn't think they could do agility with the dog, I do obedience with Sophie but not agility and definitely no ball chasing where they run and twist after the ball.

[zenchel]

I would be wary of too much Cartrophen in such a young dog. Long term, it can damage the liver and kidneys.

Please provide references for this statement. You might have manufacturers making an appointment to see you in court - I have scoured the literature re Cartrophen and can find no references to long term kidney and/or liver damage.

Sylvia

[Staff'n'Toller]

Just heard from one of my puppy buyers (dog is just under 2 yo now) that he needed a cruciate repair after suffering an injury (rough housing with the kids, and landed badly). It has only been a few weeks, so he is still in the recovery phase, but seems to be going OK. The vet is encouraging them to have regular cartophen injections to prevent the later onset of arthritis, and they have asked me if I think this is necessary. Unfortunately (or fortunately I guess!) I have no experience with with this, so not sure what to tell them.

The dog is beautifully maintained, at a correct weight, and has been very well brought up by his family.They have done some Obedience with him and were thinking about giving Agility a go. I know they will do whatever is best for him, but are just not sure if the injections are necessary, and for how long.

Does anyone have any experience in this regards?

Sadly, I have, but in older dogs.

I would be wary of too much Cartrophen in such a young dog. Long term, it can damage the liver and kidneys.

Instead I'd be doing maybe one course after healing, then use supplements like glucosamine chondroiten and perhaps musseltone for inflammation if it develops.

If they really want to go the whole hog, it has been reported that using stem cells at the injury site will do wonders.

Are you sure you're not getting confused between Cartrophen and Carprofen (non-steroidal anti-inflammatory)??? They are both very separate medications.

[Tansy]

Thanks for the responses. My initial gut feel was that he was a young dog and assuming he had a good recovery he wouldn't need any recurring treatment - I'm not one to over medicate. That said, after responses here and from talking to other breeders, it sounds like a good idea for him to have the injections. I know his owners will do what is best for him, and will be very responsible in managing his recovery appropriately.

[westiemum]

Hi Tansy, My boy has just had his right ACL repaired for the second time... and cartrophen injections have also been recommended. As my vet has never once led me astray, I'll take that advice and start him on his first injection next week. I understand your preference not to over-medicate - but these new drugs are so good these days IMO over-medication generally is less of a worry - and I certainly know my boy is much more comfy when he's well medicated (not over medicated mind you).

Good Luck!

Thanks for the responses. My initial gut feel was that he was a young dog and assuming he had a good recovery he wouldn't need any recurring treatment - I'm not one to over medicate. That said, after responses here and from talking to other breeders, it sounds like a good idea for him to have the injections. I know his owners will do what is best for him, and will be very responsible in managing his recovery appropriately.

Edited June 6, 2010 by westiemum

[temperamentfirst]

I would be wary of too much Cartrophen in such a young dog. Long term, it can damage the liver and kidneys.

Please provide references for this statement. You might have manufacturers making an appointment to see you in court - I have scoured the literature re Cartrophen and can find no references to long term kidney and/or liver damage.

Sylvia

Maybe my dog who died from from those causes, because his arthritis was so bad there was no alternative?

Why are you so aggressive? I was reporting my experience, and after losing an extremely special dog, it is hard to even discuss his treatment, and I wanted to warn of the unintended consequences. It is strange that you have reacted so strongly and unpleasantly. We are meant to be sharing our experiences, and just because mine is different, you do not have to react as you have.

My vet said all along that long term it could affect him. And yes, I know the difference between it and Carprophen, which is also known as Rimadyl. Cartrophen helped him a lot, but eventually it caught up with him. I console myself that without it we'd have had to let him go much sooner. My vet told me that it gradually built up and his kidneys failed. It got so that after each injection he became incontinent, and while the injections helped his pain, we'd worry about him having the whole course. We got him through them, but they also stopped being as effective, which the literature does warn of.

NOTE, I said, TOO MUCH, not to avoid it altogether. With most drugs there is a downside as well as benefits, and it is always a balance and quality of life is very important. Also, my dog did not suffer from arthritis in the cruciate ligament leg. Even though it required a lot of surgeries because he reacted to the line used, we took a very proactive path and he had a lot of laser treatment as soon as the stitches were out. It really made a huge difference, and if stem cell had been available I would have used it. And I am not saying that I would never use it again, just that I would not want to use it too much.

Your attitude is the reason I rarely post to this forum, and I shan't bother posting to this group again, too many painful memories.

[Dog_Horse_Girl]

I would be wary of too much Cartrophen in such a young dog. Long term, it can damage the liver and kidneys.

Please provide references for this statement. You might have manufacturers making an appointment to see you in court - I have scoured the literature re Cartrophen and can find no references to long term kidney and/or liver damage.

Sylvia

Maybe my dog who died from from those causes, because his arthritis was so bad there was no alternative?

Why are you so aggressive? I was reporting my experience, and after losing an extremely special dog, it is hard to even discuss his treatment, and I wanted to warn of the unintended consequences. It is strange that you have reacted so strongly and unpleasantly. We are meant to be sharing our experiences, and just because mine is different, you do not have to react as you have.

My vet said all along that long term it could affect him. And yes, I know the difference between it and Carprophen, which is also known as Rimadyl. Cartrophen helped him a lot, but eventually it caught up with him. I console myself that without it we'd have had to let him go much sooner. My vet told me that it gradually built up and his kidneys failed. It got so that after each injection he became incontinent, and while the injections helped his pain, we'd worry about him having the whole course. We got him through them, but they also stopped being as effective, which the literature does warn of.

NOTE, I said, TOO MUCH, not to avoid it altogether. With most drugs there is a downside as well as benefits, and it is always a balance and quality of life is very important. Also, my dog did not suffer from arthritis in the cruciate ligament leg. Even though it required a lot of surgeries because he reacted to the line used, we took a very proactive path and he had a lot of laser treatment as soon as the stitches were out. It really made a huge difference, and if stem cell had been available I would have used it. And I am not saying that I would never use it again, just that I would not want to use it too much.

Your attitude is the reason I rarely post to this forum, and I shan't bother posting to this group again, too many painful memories.

It's odd but I didn't find this reply aggressive in the least. I actually thought it was a sensible reply given that this is a public forum and drug manufacturers are very protective of their collective reputations. I would hate to see anyone on the board taken to court over something said here, perhaps Sylvia was looking out for you?

As for cartrophen causing problems, our staffy cross Ruby has had a course recently, also following cruciate ligament repair surgery. She has also been on Rimadyl and our greyhound has been on Metacam. None of these drugs has caused any adverse reactions to date. Ruby is aged 10 and so is the greyhound. The greyhound was on Metacam for a slipped disc in her neck. Cartrophen has been used to assist in the treatment of arthritis for some time now and many vets and patients' owners find it works a treat.

I'm sorry that you lost your dog, it's always difficult to lose such a loved family member. If he wasn't on cartrophen as a result of the knee surgery, then may I ask for what reason he was prescribed it?

To the OP - a course of cartrophen is one injection weekly for four weeks. Repeat at six-monthly intervals if needed, i.e twice a year. Swimming and other non-weight-bearing activities are a good idea as well as this helps to strengthen the muscles which support the joints.

[kamuzz]

My GSD injured his knee at a young age too, and has now had surgery twice to repair his cruciate.

The only food additive I can get him to eat is Joint Guard, but I don't see much difference when he is on it or off it.

He was on Previcox daily for ages, but then got a persistent bout of diarrhoea that took us over 4 weeks to settle down. As part of this the vet took him off the Previcox and he didn't seem to be any worse off it. I have the tablets and give him a half when he seems to be especially sore.

He does get the injections, I think about every 6-8 months. My vet has never mentioned kidney damage when talking about these.

[zenchel]

Why are you so aggressive? I was reporting my experience, and after losing an extremely special dog, it is hard to even discuss his treatment, and I wanted to warn of the unintended consequences. It is strange that you have reacted so strongly and unpleasantly. We are meant to be sharing our experiences, and just because mine is different, you do not have to react as you have.

I am sorry that you feel I am being aggressive; my intention was to discover if there was any published data confirming that long term use of Cartrophen causes kidney and/or liver failure. The benefits of Cartrophen and lack of side effects make it such an important drug to our beloved dogs that it would be a real worry if there was a problem with its use. The relating of experiences is quite different to claiming long term side effects of a drug without documentation.

My vet said all along that long term it could affect him. And yes, I know the difference between it and Carprophen, which is also known as Rimadyl. Cartrophen helped him a lot, but eventually it caught up with him. I console myself that without it we'd have had to let him go much sooner. My vet told me that it gradually built up and his kidneys failed. It got so that after each injection he became incontinent, and while the injections helped his pain, we'd worry about him having the whole course. We got him through them, but they also stopped being as effective, which the literature does warn of.

I'm very sorry that you lost your dog after a long battle and am pleased to hear that the Cartrophen was such a help, however I am still sceptical of the idea that its long term use caused kidney failure.

Your attitude is the reason I rarely post to this forum, and I shan't bother posting to this group again, too many painful memories.

I'm sorry that you regard my wanting to clarify an issue as "attitude" and also that you regard this group as having painful memories for you. I hope that time can help heal your sadness over losing your special friend.

Sylvia

[Staff'n'Toller]

I would be wary of too much Cartrophen in such a young dog. Long term, it can damage the liver and kidneys.

Please provide references for this statement. You might have manufacturers making an appointment to see you in court - I have scoured the literature re Cartrophen and can find no references to long term kidney and/or liver damage.

Sylvia

Maybe my dog who died from from those causes, because his arthritis was so bad there was no alternative?

Why are you so aggressive? I was reporting my experience, and after losing an extremely special dog, it is hard to even discuss his treatment, and I wanted to warn of the unintended consequences. It is strange that you have reacted so strongly and unpleasantly. We are meant to be sharing our experiences, and just because mine is different, you do not have to react as you have.

My vet said all along that long term it could affect him. And yes, I know the difference between it and Carprophen, which is also known as Rimadyl. Cartrophen helped him a lot, but eventually it caught up with him. I console myself that without it we'd have had to let him go much sooner. My vet told me that it gradually built up and his kidneys failed. It got so that after each injection he became incontinent, and while the injections helped his pain, we'd worry about him having the whole course. We got him through them, but they also stopped being as effective, which the literature does warn of.

NOTE, I said, TOO MUCH, not to avoid it altogether. With most drugs there is a downside as well as benefits, and it is always a balance and quality of life is very important. Also, my dog did not suffer from arthritis in the cruciate ligament leg. Even though it required a lot of surgeries because he reacted to the line used, we took a very proactive path and he had a lot of laser treatment as soon as the stitches were out. It really made a huge difference, and if stem cell had been available I would have used it. And I am not saying that I would never use it again, just that I would not want to use it too much.

Your attitude is the reason I rarely post to this forum, and I shan't bother posting to this group again, too many painful memories.

I'm sorry that you lost your dog, but I am puzzled as to why you continued with the whole course if you felt the injections were a direct cause?

Did you have regular screening pathology done to get an idea of kidney values?

There is a caution on using Cartrophen in dogs with bleeding disorders- this can include dogs with tumours- hence why we send blood for a full body profile before starting to rule out any other underlying issues.