Wazzat Xolo Posted June 4, 2010 Share Posted June 4, 2010 Some people seem to be taking offense to me asking questions. I haven't accused breeders of doing anything wrong, this thread is about why people cross breed so I think it's fair to ask what costs are incurred by registered breeders as opposed to Designer breeders. I have been told that I should go elsewhere because people perceive me as being opposed to breeders for asking simple questions. Do you also suggest that I start aquiring my dogs from BYB and/or puppy farmers because I don't agree with everything you say? With some breeders being this arrogant it's no wonder people choose to aquire pups from other sources.It's a fact that not all registered breeders are in it for the good of the breed. I don't know anyone who breeds designer dogs but perhaps there are those who believe they are doing the right thing just as some of you purebreeders do. And yes this sight is for purebred dogs, so if I own pedigree, papered dogs I should be allowed an opinion on here the same as anyone else, but I say something that a long term member doesn't want me to say, all of a sudden I'm not welcome on this forum. I dont think people are telling you to go elsewhere Furballs ( maybe you could reword some posts in a different manner) On paper ( or posts) some things can come across a bit different than one means. A few breeders have answered your question on costs, but bear in mind it is a personal question and not all will want to/ or should reply, up to the individual and I think you may find these costs across the board with the majority of Registered Dog Breeders. Its always good to ask questions to learn more, but sometimes its good to be very careful how they are worded then everyone can understand and answer if they so desire. There are a lot of long term respected breeders on here that teach so many so much, they no doubt are asked the same question many many times about designer and cross breed dogs and when these little DDs sell for far more than the pure bred health tested dogs which they pour they heart and soul into its no wonder cross bred or designer dogs are not a favourable topic! Lol Use the search button to research a few threads on this THERE are a LOT of topics that a worth a read on the DD debate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lanabanana Posted June 4, 2010 Share Posted June 4, 2010 Some people seem to be taking offense to me asking questions. I haven't accused breeders of doing anything wrong, this thread is about why people cross breed so I think it's fair to ask what costs are incurred by registered breeders as opposed to Designer breeders. I have been told that I should go elsewhere because people perceive me as being opposed to breeders for asking simple questions. Do you also suggest that I start aquiring my dogs from BYB and/or puppy farmers because I don't agree with everything you say? With some breeders being this arrogant it's no wonder people choose to aquire pups from other sources.It's a fact that not all registered breeders are in it for the good of the breed. I don't know anyone who breeds designer dogs but perhaps there are those who believe they are doing the right thing just as some of you purebreeders do. And yes this sight is for purebred dogs, so if I own pedigree, papered dogs I should be allowed an opinion on here the same as anyone else, but I say something that a long term member doesn't want me to say, all of a sudden I'm not welcome on this forum. yep it is a pure bred forum and your line of questions and attitude would be better placed in another forum that has cross breds as its focus IMO So you people can judge others as you please but when someone asks a question that you don't like they should go elsewhere? yes when the questions, subject and attitude are against the forum rules and intent Can you explain what you mean by the above comment from here which you should have read before posting http://www.dolforums.com.au/forumrules.html This site is for pure bred dog discussion The primary purpose of this forum is to promote and discuss pure bred dogs (as recognised by the ANKC) so we ask you respect our aim when visiting here. If you own a cross breed dog, you are also welcome here, but we ask that you refer to it by it's proper name (eg a pug-x or cavalier-x instead of the designer term 'pugalier'). Do not make comments that are likely to start or perpetuate an argument. This is not related to just having a difference of opinion. No promotion of cross breeds / designer dogs This site has nothing against cross breeds (most of us have had one at some stage in our life), however we are against the promotion of them as being superior to the purebred dog and people cashing in on the 'designer dog' craze. We also ask that you refrain from unnecessary designer dog discussion. (ie discussion that has no real purpose other than to express dismay at the latest 'cross breed' you saw (or read about)). Sure, we all know they are out there, but we prefer to concentrate on discussing the pure bred dog (ANKC recognised breeds). No denigration of pure bred dogs Speaks for itself. If you don't think pure bred dogs make the perfect pets, then maybe this forum is not for you. No denigration of responsible, registered breeders and breeding practices Our site has a lot of breeders with a lot of knowledge to share. We will not tolerate members who denigrate (however subtle) responsible breeders and breeding practices. I don't see that furballs is breaking any of those rules. All crossbred dogs in this thread have been referred to as their name rather than some cutesy name. This thread hasnt caused an argument - only a difference of opinion Nobody is promoting crossbreeds or putting down purebreds. No rules broken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
furballs Posted June 4, 2010 Share Posted June 4, 2010 Some people seem to be taking offense to me asking questions. I haven't accused breeders of doing anything wrong, this thread is about why people cross breed so I think it's fair to ask what costs are incurred by registered breeders as opposed to Designer breeders. I have been told that I should go elsewhere because people perceive me as being opposed to breeders for asking simple questions. Do you also suggest that I start aquiring my dogs from BYB and/or puppy farmers because I don't agree with everything you say? With some breeders being this arrogant it's no wonder people choose to aquire pups from other sources.It's a fact that not all registered breeders are in it for the good of the breed. I don't know anyone who breeds designer dogs but perhaps there are those who believe they are doing the right thing just as some of you purebreeders do. And yes this sight is for purebred dogs, so if I own pedigree, papered dogs I should be allowed an opinion on here the same as anyone else, but I say something that a long term member doesn't want me to say, all of a sudden I'm not welcome on this forum. yep it is a pure bred forum and your line of questions and attitude would be better placed in another forum that has cross breds as its focus IMO So you people can judge others as you please but when someone asks a question that you don't like they should go elsewhere? yes when the questions, subject and attitude are against the forum rules and intent Can you explain what you mean by the above comment from here which you should have read before posting http://www.dolforums.com.au/forumrules.html This site is for pure bred dog discussion The primary purpose of this forum is to promote and discuss pure bred dogs (as recognised by the ANKC) so we ask you respect our aim when visiting here. If you own a cross breed dog, you are also welcome here, but we ask that you refer to it by it's proper name (eg a pug-x or cavalier-x instead of the designer term 'pugalier'). Do not make comments that are likely to start or perpetuate an argument. This is not related to just having a difference of opinion. No promotion of cross breeds / designer dogs This site has nothing against cross breeds (most of us have had one at some stage in our life), however we are against the promotion of them as being superior to the purebred dog and people cashing in on the 'designer dog' craze. We also ask that you refrain from unnecessary designer dog discussion. (ie discussion that has no real purpose other than to express dismay at the latest 'cross breed' you saw (or read about)). Sure, we all know they are out there, but we prefer to concentrate on discussing the pure bred dog (ANKC recognised breeds). No denigration of pure bred dogs Speaks for itself. If you don't think pure bred dogs make the perfect pets, then maybe this forum is not for you. No denigration of responsible, registered breeders and breeding practices Our site has a lot of breeders with a lot of knowledge to share. We will not tolerate members who denigrate (however subtle) responsible breeders and breeding practices. I don't see that furballs is breaking any of those rules. All crossbred dogs in this thread have been referred to as their name rather than some cutesy name. This thread hasnt caused an argument - only a difference of opinion Nobody is promoting crossbreeds or putting down purebreds. No rules broken Thank you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaxx'sBuddy Posted June 4, 2010 Share Posted June 4, 2010 Some people seem to be taking offense to me asking questions. I haven't accused breeders of doing anything wrong, this thread is about why people cross breed so I think it's fair to ask what costs are incurred by registered breeders as opposed to Designer breeders. I have been told that I should go elsewhere because people perceive me as being opposed to breeders for asking simple questions. Do you also suggest that I start aquiring my dogs from BYB and/or puppy farmers because I don't agree with everything you say? With some breeders being this arrogant it's no wonder people choose to aquire pups from other sources.It's a fact that not all registered breeders are in it for the good of the breed. I don't know anyone who breeds designer dogs but perhaps there are those who believe they are doing the right thing just as some of you purebreeders do. And yes this sight is for purebred dogs, so if I own pedigree, papered dogs I should be allowed an opinion on here the same as anyone else, but I say something that a long term member doesn't want me to say, all of a sudden I'm not welcome on this forum. yep it is a pure bred forum and your line of questions and attitude would be better placed in another forum that has cross breds as its focus IMO So you people can judge others as you please but when someone asks a question that you don't like they should go elsewhere? yes when the questions, subject and attitude are against the forum rules and intent Can you explain what you mean by the above comment from here which you should have read before posting http://www.dolforums.com.au/forumrules.html This site is for pure bred dog discussion The primary purpose of this forum is to promote and discuss pure bred dogs (as recognised by the ANKC) so we ask you respect our aim when visiting here. If you own a cross breed dog, you are also welcome here, but we ask that you refer to it by it's proper name (eg a pug-x or cavalier-x instead of the designer term 'pugalier'). Do not make comments that are likely to start or perpetuate an argument. This is not related to just having a difference of opinion. No promotion of cross breeds / designer dogs This site has nothing against cross breeds (most of us have had one at some stage in our life), however we are against the promotion of them as being superior to the purebred dog and people cashing in on the 'designer dog' craze. We also ask that you refrain from unnecessary designer dog discussion. (ie discussion that has no real purpose other than to express dismay at the latest 'cross breed' you saw (or read about)). Sure, we all know they are out there, but we prefer to concentrate on discussing the pure bred dog (ANKC recognised breeds). No denigration of pure bred dogs Speaks for itself. If you don't think pure bred dogs make the perfect pets, then maybe this forum is not for you. No denigration of responsible, registered breeders and breeding practices Our site has a lot of breeders with a lot of knowledge to share. We will not tolerate members who denigrate (however subtle) responsible breeders and breeding practices. I don't see that furballs is breaking any of those rules. All crossbred dogs in this thread have been referred to as their name rather than some cutesy name. This thread hasnt caused an argument - only a difference of opinion Nobody is promoting crossbreeds or putting down purebreds. No rules broken i really cant be bothered going through the posts and you havent either so you cant say no rules broken (having only 11 posts doesnt exactly give you much experience with the rules here either) furballs just isnt listening to what people are saying and repeatedly asking the same questions and i am done with this thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bigdogg Posted June 4, 2010 Share Posted June 4, 2010 Maybe the reduction in ANKC memberships is from some of the passionate attitudes and extreme dictatorship that are present on this forum.. DOL needs a "round and round in bloody circles" emotion.. or "flogging a dead horse one" Feel free to fire abuse at me.. I believe in cross breeding dogs that are used for working pourposes.. (pigdogs, cattle dogs and the likes) Furballs - a little tip.. Do the same as I do.. Take the good information and learn from it.. There are some great topics and information on here.. Some great members that are only too happy to help and a lot of extremists.. I enjoy reading this forum and have gained a lot out of it.. Sometimes its easier just to nod your head though and dont rock the boat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lanabanana Posted June 4, 2010 Share Posted June 4, 2010 Jaxx's Buddy: "i really cant be bothered going through the posts and you havent either so you cant say no rules broken (having only 11 posts doesnt exactly give you much experience with the rules here either) furballs just isnt listening to what people are saying and repeatedly asking the same questions and i am done with this thread " I have read every post in this thread and I don't see anything against the rules. 11 posts means I can't read and understand a set of rules? LMAO ridiculous much. 11 posts doesn't make me a regular or popular poster but I assure you, I can read and my comprehension of the written word is pretty good too. Especially when you consider the rules are typed in fairly plain english stipulating what is and is not allowed. I didn't realise repeatedly asking the same questioning and not listening was against the rules - they should add that to the rules page, we can't know these things by osmosis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
furballs Posted June 4, 2010 Share Posted June 4, 2010 Jaxx's Buddy:"i really cant be bothered going through the posts and you havent either so you cant say no rules broken (having only 11 posts doesnt exactly give you much experience with the rules here either) furballs just isnt listening to what people are saying and repeatedly asking the same questions and i am done with this thread " I have read every post in this thread and I don't see anything against the rules. 11 posts means I can't read and understand a set of rules? LMAO ridiculous much. 11 posts doesn't make me a regular or popular poster but I assure you, I can read and my comprehension of the written word is pretty good too. Especially when you consider the rules are typed in fairly plain english stipulating what is and is not allowed. I didn't realise repeatedly asking the same questioning and not listening was against the rules - they should add that to the rules page, we can't know these things by osmosis I was about to post a similar reply to this but you said it all for me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
furballs Posted June 4, 2010 Share Posted June 4, 2010 Maybe the reduction in ANKC memberships is from some of the passionate attitudes and extreme dictatorship that are present on this forum.. DOL needs a "round and round in bloody circles" emotion.. or "flogging a dead horse one" Feel free to fire abuse at me.. I believe in cross breeding dogs that are used for working pourposes.. (pigdogs, cattle dogs and the likes) Furballs - a little tip.. Do the same as I do.. Take the good information and learn from it.. There are some great topics and information on here.. Some great members that are only too happy to help and a lot of extremists.. I enjoy reading this forum and have gained a lot out of it.. Sometimes its easier just to nod your head though and dont rock the boat. Thanks for the tip bigdogg You're right, it's better not to rock the boat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ncarter Posted June 4, 2010 Share Posted June 4, 2010 Sorry Nic it was Jed.......... but I recall from memory ( I am old) that Jdavis has spome knwoledge on this through her work with primates ??Title: Some Practical Solutions to Welfare Problems in Dog Breeding Authors: P D McGreevy & F W Nichols - 1999 Summary : This paper reviews the history of the establishment of dog breeds summarises current health and welfare problems, and makes suggestiongs about outcrossing and introducing new blood into established breeds. Also information on F1 hybrids, and hybrid vigour Link: <a href="http://www.terrierman.com/mcgreevey-some-p...og-breeding.pdf" target="_blank">http://www.terrierman.com/mcgreevey-some-p...og-breeding.pdf </a> This post has been edited by Jed: 6th Feb 2010 - 07:49 PM Thanks for that Wazzat. The link didnt work on my computer though. Anyway this thread has degenerated too far. According to Terrierman.com "If you cannot pick up a border terrier by its tail and throw it over a fence, it's not a true border terrier", now I think this is the crux of this debate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wazzat Xolo Posted June 4, 2010 Share Posted June 4, 2010 Sorry Nic it was Jed.......... but I recall from memory ( I am old) that Jdavis has spome knwoledge on this through her work with primates ??Title: Some Practical Solutions to Welfare Problems in Dog Breeding Authors: P D McGreevy & F W Nichols - 1999 Summary : This paper reviews the history of the establishment of dog breeds summarises current health and welfare problems, and makes suggestiongs about outcrossing and introducing new blood into established breeds. Also information on F1 hybrids, and hybrid vigour Link: <a href="http://www.terrierman.com/mcgreevey-some-p...og-breeding.pdf" target="_blank">http://www.terrierman.com/mcgreevey-some-p...og-breeding.pdf </a> This post has been edited by Jed: 6th Feb 2010 - 07:49 PM Thanks for that Wazzat. The link didnt work on my computer though. Anyway this thread has degenerated too far. According to Terrierman.com "If you cannot pick up a border terrier by its tail and throw it over a fence, it's not a true border terrier", now I think this is the crux of this debate lol about the only sensible comment in the thread well said Nic! its become a Mass debate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lanabanana Posted June 4, 2010 Share Posted June 4, 2010 "mass debate" get it? *snigger* Maybe I am just filthy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shmurps Posted June 4, 2010 Author Share Posted June 4, 2010 (edited) Sorry guys. dumb topic anyway as I knew the answer to my own question. I did learn something thou in steve's post and that was I didn't realize that there are only 10% of purebeed breeders in this country. Edited June 4, 2010 by Shmurps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catzatsea Posted June 4, 2010 Share Posted June 4, 2010 Good heavens, if a breeder can do it all right and still make money over an extended period of time then all power to them. Since when is it a case of remain poverty stricken = an ethical breeder? People cross breed because they can, there is a demand and just as anyone choosing to breed purebred dogs has the right in this country to do so because a minority of people - us - prefer purebred dogs thats not going to stop them. Purebred breeders breed less than 10% of puppies bred in this country each year and it doesnt matter what side of the fence you sit on you can make an argument to justify what you do. What you breed or why you breed it or even if you make truck loads of money isnt counted. What is counted is the things a person is prepared not to compromise on to ensure that every puppy has the chance of the best life with the best family. I breed Maremmas and most of my dogs work - without them my stud Dorper sheep some of which are worth tens of thousands of dollars would be plagued by foxes and crows.My lambs would be lucky to survive their first week of life. Put simply I cant live without them. During lambing season I get calls from farmers who offer me thousands of dollars for my dogs some of which wouldbe happy to only take them for a few months and then return them.the difference for me is that the year before I got the Maremmas we lost 200 lambs since the Maremmas Ive lost none. How much is a working Maremma worth ? If I have one which a farmer is prepared to pay $5000 for which takes it away from where its working for me should I say no and put a lesser price on it so I remain ethical? A working Kelpie - papered or not that is good at what it does easily replaces 2 men when it comes to handling mobs of sheep. $6000 is cheap. Well Said Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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