Fear Aggression

[catjar]

Hi,i have a 1.5 gsd with fear aggression toward other dogs, has anyone ever used anxiety meds to help with training. We are seeking help from a behaviourist and wondered whether adding something like this to the program may help.

[sas]

Hi,i have a 1.5 gsd with fear aggression toward other dogs, has anyone ever used anxiety meds to help with training. We are seeking help from a behaviourist and wondered whether adding something like this to the program may help.

Yep, 2 experiences.

1) Great Dane - 18 months old - came to us with Fear Aggression - Prozac & Behaviour Modification. Prozac made him worse and he really lost the plot and was pts

2) Great Dane - Onset at 16 months - Aggression, Anxiety based - Colicalm & behaviour Modification - Completely different dog in a positive way, we still work at it though, it's not a cure but much more managable and a much happier dog.

From what I can tell from talking to different people is that it's such an individual thing, you really don't know how it's going to turn out.

Obviously without the Behaviour modification it's not going to work.

Does your Behaviourist feel that medication is really needed?

Edited June 3, 2010 by sas

[catjar]

Hi,i have a 1.5 gsd with fear aggression toward other dogs, has anyone ever used anxiety meds to help with training. We are seeking help from a behaviourist and wondered whether adding something like this to the program may help.

I havent asked yet, it was just a thought and i was going to ask my vet as well. Because he seems defensive,i thought it might just help give him alittle more nerve and maybe lessen his fast reaction, i want to do whatever i can to help him succeed

[Aidan3]

Hi,i have a 1.5 gsd with fear aggression toward other dogs, has anyone ever used anxiety meds to help with training. We are seeking help from a behaviourist and wondered whether adding something like this to the program may help.

I havent asked yet, it was just a thought and i was going to ask my vet as well. Because he seems defensive,i thought it might just help give him alittle more nerve and maybe lessen his fast reaction, i want to do whatever i can to help him succeed

It's preferable to see a veterinary behaviourist. Vets can prescribe medications, but are not qualified in behaviour until they have completed post-graduate qualifications in this area. Unfortunately this means that they are not always capable of selecting the right medication, and are rarely competent in it's use. There are protocols for going onto and coming off the main drugs used in the treatment of fear aggression because they have effects on brain chemistry.

Not all dogs (or people) have naturally ideal brain chemistry for calm behaviour. So medication can be very useful and I would encourage you to speak to an appropriately qualified person who may be able to work in conjunction with your current behaviourist.

[sas]

I consulted with Robert Holmes on both cases, he is a Vet Behaviourist, you may like to do the same as he does do phone consults as well.

http://animalbehaviour.com/

[Alfie02]

Hi,

I have experience with a small dog who had fear agression, we had been taking him to dog training to help him become more confident around other dogs and it was working a little bit, but not as much as we hoped. So we bought a "Calm Collar" for him to wear at dog training and it is excellent. He is sooo much mre relaxed and much less likely to strike out at other dogs when he feels nervous. He used to not even drink water the whole two hours we were at training, and would not even sit down in the breaks, he was always on the lookout. However now, when he wears his calm collar he drinks water, eats treats and even rolls on his back for pats .

I know that it is the combination of training and socilization that helped, but the calm collar just helped that little bit more.

Best of luck, I know how stressful it is to have a fear agressive dog.

[newfsie]

My newfie Annabelle had fear aggression to both dogs and people. We tried to go the vet behaviourist way, unsuccessfully and found a good dog trainer/behaviorist who had a lot of hands on experience with large dogs. he saved her life, as the vet gave up on her and suggested PTS. Annabelle is a gorgeous people and dog friendly dog now. We just did a lot of obedience and we trained and trained and trained some more. A lot with initially other dogs and dog training people and on the general community, by lots of walks in town.

It was a lot to do with teaching us to and we had to be totally committed to the program. It took at least a good six month before we felt we could trust her. i learned a lot from him and also how to read a dog, which can prevent a lot of potential problems. It is not something that can be fixed with a couple of sessions of training. Obedience is now part of our lives.

I hope you are lucky enough to find someone like I did to help you............

[catjar]

I consulted with Robert Holmes on both cases, he is a Vet Behaviourist, you may like to do the same as he does do phone consults as well.

http://animalbehaviour.com/

Thank all for your thoughts and comments, yes i agree it is a long hard road, i am awaiting a return phone call from my vet to c what their thoughts are aswell. We have made progress and hopefully continue to do so.I am not willing to give up on him and will continue to do whats best for him, i would appreciate more comments and suggestions on this topic

[catjar]

Hi,

I have experience with a small dog who had fear agression, we had been taking him to dog training to help him become more confident around other dogs and it was working a little bit, but not as much as we hoped. So we bought a "Calm Collar" for him to wear at dog training and it is excellent. He is sooo much mre relaxed and much less likely to strike out at other dogs when he feels nervous. He used to not even drink water the whole two hours we were at training, and would not even sit down in the breaks, he was always on the lookout. However now, when he wears his calm collar he drinks water, eats treats and even rolls on his back for pats .

I know that it is the combination of training and socilization that helped, but the calm collar just helped that little bit more.

Best of luck, I know how stressful it is to have a fear agressive dog.

I am interested, was your dog fearful and fight or fearful and run away, my boy turns to kujo and where did you get the calm collar, can you tell me more about please

[haven]

This is absolutely something you need to speak to your behaviourist about, preferably one who is also a Vet like Dr Robert Holmes, as some medications are contraindicated when aggression is present.

[Alfie02]

hi catjar,

Our little dog was very unsure of himself and very unsure around other dogs. He was fear and lunge and bark and snap, it was very scary for others and most people stood far away from us at training.Before the calm collar and dog training he would lunge and snap at other dogs if they got too close or even looked at him the wrong way. When we first took him to dog training the instructor mocked us and told us basically that our dog was a right little Sh#t. Were veryupset at this and knew that he could improve.

Anyway, after a years woth of dog training he was getting a little better but still incined to snap and bark agressivley at other dogs when they got too close (which didnt have to be very close). So we got this "Calm Collar" and it was just the thing he needed to get him that little bit more relaxed. He can now sniff face to face with most other dogs.

It is called a 'GOODbehaviour Pheromone Calming Collar'. We got it from the Pet Shop Boyz store but they are available online for cheaper than what we paid ($60). This is what the box says:

Pheromone Calming Collars for dogs are treated with pheromones, lavender and chamomile to create a soothing blend that eases stress and anxiety in dogs.

A unique collar recommended for decreasing separation anxiety, excessive barking, destructive behaviour, and inappropriate barking.

When activated by a dog’s body heat the collar gives off the same pheromone that lactating mother dogs produce to reassure their puppies.

This scent is combined with soothing lavender and chamomile to create a calming blend.

Also great to decrease anxiety that some dogs experience during thunderstorms, fireworks, and vet visits.

Convenient collar works at home or on the go and lasts up to 30 days.

I have heard that it hasnt worked for some but then others have had sucess with it like us. We were willing to try anything to help us to progress and we are so glad it worked We did however combine this with continued socilisation and training so its not a mirical worker, but its worth a try.

Edit to add: We only put the collar on him when we go to training or we know that we will be meeting other dogs, so it will last alot longer than the 30 days as we store it in an air tight container.

Edited June 4, 2010 by Alfie02

[Black Bronson]

Hi,i have a 1.5 gsd with fear aggression toward other dogs, has anyone ever used anxiety meds to help with training. We are seeking help from a behaviourist and wondered whether adding something like this to the program may help.

Catjar, seriously, I would forget behaviourists, vets and drugs until you can hire a good K9 experienced trainer to assess the dog first. Someone experienced with working breeds and GSD's in particular, what state are you in???. If the dog is fear aggressive and from a registered breeder, I would be asking the breeder why they are breeding dogs of weak nerve.

[animalia]

I have a 3 year old female ACD and ever since she was about a year old she had learned to be aggressive through fear. If she is pushed to a point and there are no other means of getting out of a situation she will lunge, bite and hang on, she even got to the point where her mentally was "I'll get you before you get me". She was VERY territorial of her belongings and would attack anything that went near them, including me.

When I got her she was set in her ways, BUT giving her a lot of exercise, training, and socialising her to the world really helped, and also getting her to the point that she trusts me to deal with the situation at hand so she doesn't have to react. She's by no means perfect and she will never get to perfection as she had poor socialisation in her critical period, at the moment I'm dealing with her being territorial, she's no way near as bad as what she was, women and kids can walk by her things and come in to the house BUT no unfamiliar men, she HATES tradesman.

I recently put one of the DAP bottles in my lounge room (which can be closed of to the rest of the house) and have found that Penny (the ACD) is a lot more calm, she's not always on patrol and can sit and relax.

[Aidan3]

There are, of course, veterinary behaviourists with extensive experience with working breeds including GSDs. Dr Holmes, for e.g, who has been working with these dogs (including dogs in service) since the 70s.

[sas]

Hi,

I have experience with a small dog who had fear agression, we had been taking him to dog training to help him become more confident around other dogs and it was working a little bit, but not as much as we hoped. So we bought a "Calm Collar" for him to wear at dog training and it is excellent. He is sooo much mre relaxed and much less likely to strike out at other dogs when he feels nervous. He used to not even drink water the whole two hours we were at training, and would not even sit down in the breaks, he was always on the lookout. However now, when he wears his calm collar he drinks water, eats treats and even rolls on his back for pats .

I know that it is the combination of training and socilization that helped, but the calm collar just helped that little bit more.

Best of luck, I know how stressful it is to have a fear agressive dog.

Never had heard of them before so had a look, interesting concept, I'm glad it helped you and your dog. You didn't use it as the only collar though right as I'm not sure I would trust an agro dog on it.

This are the ones I found when I went searching:

http://www.bowhouse.com.au/p/1026581/good-...dog-collar.html

http://www.calmingcollars.com/

Edited June 5, 2010 by sas

[sas]

Hi,i have a 1.5 gsd with fear aggression toward other dogs, has anyone ever used anxiety meds to help with training. We are seeking help from a behaviourist and wondered whether adding something like this to the program may help.

Catjar, seriously, I would forget behaviourists, vets and drugs until you can hire a good K9 experienced trainer to assess the dog first. Someone experienced with working breeds and GSD's in particular, what state are you in???. If the dog is fear aggressive and from a registered breeder, I would be asking the breeder why they are breeding dogs of weak nerve.

[sas]

This is absolutely something you need to speak to your behaviourist about, preferably one who is also a Vet like Dr Robert Holmes, as some medications are contraindicated when aggression is present.

Exactly. Robert only likes Prozac actually and not Colicalm as apparantly the aggression can increase on it, it doesn't for us though and had great results.

[Prydenjoy]

I have a reactive dog and used Clomicalm in conjunction with counter conditioning and desensitisation and he is a different dog now. He used to lunge and bite at children, now he goes up to them tail wagging, relaxed and happy, for a pat (and a treat, he hopes!). On walks he knows when the situation is getting above his threshold and comes and sits in front of me, whereas before he would be attacking and going ballistic at the other dog. He is a new dog, he does require constant work though, it's not something that you "fix" and forget about. He's off the clomicalm now, but now that he has alternate behaviors that he has learned he is fine anyway.

Do book yourself into an experienced behaviorist, this is not something you want to "treat" on your own, you need someone with a lot of knowledge and experience to guide you. Good luck!

[ESCS]

We also have a reactive dog who has fear aggression with other dogs, particularly while on a lead. I just started using DAP spray which I spray on to his harness about 10 minutes before going for a walk. I am not sure whether it is the training we have been doing with a dog trainer or the spray (although the training definitely has made a huge difference) but he seems much happier and more relaxed when we go for walks. I have also noticed that he is less likely to lunge, snarl, growl and bark at dogs passing by. He will bounce a bit but happy to move on quietly. I ordered the DAP stray from out vet and I hear the collar version will be available at the end of the year.

[Staranais]

Hi,i have a 1.5 gsd with fear aggression toward other dogs, has anyone ever used anxiety meds to help with training. We are seeking help from a behaviourist and wondered whether adding something like this to the program may help.

I havent asked yet, it was just a thought and i was going to ask my vet as well. Because he seems defensive,i thought it might just help give him alittle more nerve and maybe lessen his fast reaction, i want to do whatever i can to help him succeed

It's preferable to see a veterinary behaviourist. Vets can prescribe medications, but are not qualified in behaviour until they have completed post-graduate qualifications in this area. Unfortunately this means that they are not always capable of selecting the right medication, and are rarely competent in it's use.

Yup, agree with Aidan. If you want to go the drugs route, I'd see a specialist veterinarian. Not just your GP vet.

I'd personally give the behaviourist a chance to work it out without the drugs first, though.