Seeking Advice On Selecting A Puppy

[poodlefan]

Their coats can need quite a bit of work PF. We have one that comes into work who we groomed as well as staying in the daycare and you could literally see him matting up before your eyes! I know they are not all like that but this one certainly was!

I know that show grooming SCWs is hard work and that pets are often clipped. I looked at them at one stage as they have a reputation for trainability amongst the terriers and considered getting one. However, if I wanted a dog that was a difficult to maintain as a poodle in the show ring, I'd have stuck with the poods.

Any coat that has length and fullness is not going to be a cinch to maintain, especially if it is pale.

Edited June 3, 2010 by poodlefan

[Sheridan]

I wasn't actually banging my head about the OP, I was banging my head about you.

Yeah, I got that.

The wheaten sheds, poodlefan. It is not a non-shedding dog. As I said, if you don't know anything about a dog, don't recommend one.

Well, considering that before I posted I checked my understanding of the breed's non-shed coat on the Soft Coated Wheaten Terrier Society of NSW Website that says this:

their non shed coat which simply needs a thorough brush at least once a week

perhaps you might now understand my error. Seems to me you'd better start educating the breed club too. ;)

Oh dear, aren't you behind the times.

All breeds shed Sheridan. Poodles included. They shed into their coats though, they don't drop hair. I falsely believed that SCW's were the same. Best you correct the Wikipedia entry for the breed as it contains the same error.

Precisely, they shed into their coats. So, not non-shedding, as I said. If you knew this, then you shouldn't have said non-shedding.

Their coats can need quite a bit of work PF. We have one that comes into work who we groomed as well as staying in the daycare and you could literally see him matting up before your eyes! I know they are not all like that but this one certainly was!

I know that show grooming SCWs is hard work and that pets are often clipped. I looked at them at one stage as they have a reputation for trainability amongst the terriers and considered getting one. However, if I wanted a dog that was a difficult to maintain as a poodle in the show ring, I'd have stuck with the poods.

Any coat that has length and fullness is not going to be a cinch to maintain, especially if it is pale.

Show grooming is not hard work. This is how they should be groomed for show according to the standard:

Over trimming or stylising should be penalised. For show purposes the coat may be tidied to present a neat outline.

Edited June 3, 2010 by Sheridan

[poodlefan]

Precisely, they shed into their coats. So, not non-shedding, as I said. If you knew this, then you shouldn't have said non-shedding.

Whatever......

Serves me right for mentioning your breed of choice at all I suppose. Won't make that mistake again.

Edited June 3, 2010 by poodlefan

[Sheridan]

Precisely, they shed into their coats. So, not non-shedding, as I said. If you knew this, then you shouldn't have said non-shedding.

Whatever......

Serves me right for mentioning your breed of choice at all I suppose. Won't make that mistake again.

Good.

[ravenau1]

Not very friendly in here! But interesting to read about the different breeds.

[Kavik]

Their coats can need quite a bit of work PF. We have one that comes into work who we groomed as well as staying in the daycare and you could literally see him matting up before your eyes! I know they are not all like that but this one certainly was!

I know that show grooming SCWs is hard work and that pets are often clipped. I looked at them at one stage as they have a reputation for trainability amongst the terriers and considered getting one. However, if I wanted a dog that was a difficult to maintain as a poodle in the show ring, I'd have stuck with the poods.

Any coat that has length and fullness is not going to be a cinch to maintain, especially if it is pale.

This dog's coat was much more difficult to maintain than I thought it would be. Seriously it would mat between the time we groomed him and the time he went home - was very frustrating! I suspect the owners did little in the way of grooming at home though. He does however have a great life and gets to swim in the dam etc but boy does he pick up stuff in that coat! At least now they are clipping him so it is shorter. The ones I have met have had a lovely personality, but I am the first to say I am not a fan of that much grooming.

[Lambo]

The sheer volume and quality of the responses to date are just awesome. Thanks folks.

As for the reaction to my comment about Airedale Terriers - blimey! As I said, it was simply an immediate reaction - based on the photos on pedigree.com.au (it honestly did look small - and nice, hence "cute"). And no, I've never seen one in the flesh. So to those who know otherwise, I stand corrected.

Likewise with my comment about a mix breed. It was just a thought, and a fleeting one at that.

To Bryan Mannix, I'm in Brissie too - southside.

As for the "negative" commentary on some of the breeds, I don't really mind this. As others have already pointed out, at least you go in with eyes wide open. I prefer this approach - its just that some of the websites seem to really give emphasis to the negatives and do not make sufficiently clear what traits can be considered the norm as opposed to the more extreme. Having said that, I accept that it is important for the negatives to be highlighted too - I'm after honest commentary, not someone just what to tell me what I'd really like to hear.

Right now, I think my list is starting to look like this (in order of preference):

1. Weimaraner

2. Border Collie

3. Labrador

4. Staffy

5. Whippet (still chewing on this one).

The Collie probably just beats the Lab at this stage.

Once I settle on my final list, how do I go about checking out the dogs in the flesh? I know people have suggested going to dog shows and speaking to breeders, but I'm not familiar with the dog circle - how exactly do you locate upcoming dog shows? Does it cost anything to turn up to one? What about breeders, do they get narky if you just turn out to be a tyre kicker? When I bought my house I almost drove my family insane because we checked out at least 40 houses before I started to get a real sense of what I was looking for - I don't think selecting a dog that I'm going to have to live with for at least 10 (or more) years is going to be any faster.

Three other questions that I haven't asked to date are to do with yard size, fencing and prices:

(a) How much room do the breeds I have identified need?

(b) How high should my fence be? At the moment I have a standard chain-link fence between me and my neighbours - say a meter high? I figure that I shouldn't get a dog until I raise the height to at least double this. But will that do - what say you all?

© Finally, what's the typical price range for each of the breeds identified? I know I can get a feel for these off sites like, say, gumtree - but how do I know when someone's asking a bit much?

[Kavik]

For the fence - I think it is best if the dog cannot see through the fence - they are less likely to bark at things that way. If you can't change it from chain link, I would put up a screen or a fence inside the chain one. There was a thread a little while ago about ways to do this. I would go around 6 ft high for fences as some of those breeds could get over a shorter fence.

[Kavik]

The sheer volume and quality of the responses to date are just awesome. Thanks folks.

As for the reaction to my comment about Airedale Terriers - blimey! As I said, it was simply an immediate reaction - based on the photos on pedigree.com.au (it honestly did look small - and nice, hence "cute"). And no, I've never seen one in the flesh. So to those who know otherwise, I stand corrected.

Likewise with my comment about a mix breed. It was just a thought, and a fleeting one at that.

To Bryan Mannix, I'm in Brissie too - southside.

As for the "negative" commentary on some of the breeds, I don't really mind this. As others have already pointed out, at least you go in with eyes wide open. I prefer this approach - its just that some of the websites seem to really give emphasis to the negatives and do not make sufficiently clear what traits can be considered the norm as opposed to the more extreme. Having said that, I accept that it is important for the negatives to be highlighted too - I'm after honest commentary, not someone just what to tell me what I'd really like to hear.

Right now, I think my list is starting to look like this (in order of preference):

1. Weimaraner

2. Border Collie

3. Labrador

4. Staffy

5. Whippet (still chewing on this one).

The Collie probably just beats the Lab at this stage.

Once I settle on my final list, how do I go about checking out the dogs in the flesh? I know people have suggested going to dog shows and speaking to breeders, but I'm not familiar with the dog circle - how exactly do you locate upcoming dog shows? Does it cost anything to turn up to one? What about breeders, do they get narky if you just turn out to be a tyre kicker? When I bought my house I almost drove my family insane because we checked out at least 40 houses before I started to get a real sense of what I was looking for - I don't think selecting a dog that I'm going to have to live with for at least 10 (or more) years is going to be any faster.

Three other questions that I haven't asked to date are to do with yard size, fencing and prices:

(a) How much room do the breeds I have identified need?

(b) How high should my fence be? At the moment I have a standard chain-link fence between me and my neighbours - say a meter high? I figure that I shouldn't get a dog until I raise the height to at least double this. But will that do - what say you all?

© Finally, what's the typical price range for each of the breeds identified? I know I can get a feel for these off sites like, say, gumtree - but how do I know when someone's asking a bit much?

What made you choose Border Collie? They are a very active breed, arguably the most intelligent dog breed, need plenty of mental and physical stimulation, shed and are not quiet.

ETA: They are one of the most popular choices for people competing in obedience, agility, flyball and dog dancing for this reason. If you are really interested in one of the high energy intelligent breeds, have you looked into doing a sport with your dog? Lots of fun for you too!

What people have suggested is possibly the Rough or Smooth Collie if you like the Collies.

Edited June 3, 2010 by Kavik

[Guest Tess32]

I don't think a Border Collie suits at all.

Smooth Collie would be ok - Collies are pretty adaptable and tend to fit in with most families. However they can be barkers.

[Monah]

Lambo , shows do not cost anything unless they are 'attached' to say a royal show etc. and you have to pay an entrance fee.

Most breeds are OK with a normal size suburban block as long as they get exercise, we have a couple of acres and mine only 'use' it if I am out there too and would be fine in a smaller area.

I agree with Kavik about the fence.

Price, this can vary greatly depending on lines, litter choice etc. but there should be some sort of 'ball price' although with those breeds I have no idea. All I would say is don't get sucked in by things like 'rare blue staffy' etc. being double the price and any other type statements with the other breeds. There are breeders on DOL who wold probably help you with price ranges if you PMd them privately and you may be able to find some on the actual breed listings on DOL.

With the negative comments re breeds, some (like me ) actually don't find the negative comments a negative. I love the negative(apart from any health, timid issues) about both my breeds, which I suppose is how it works. If you find the neg comments quite easy to live with ;) (slobber etc with a spin?? easy :D 'velcro' viz? easy ) then you know 'this could be the ONE!'

[Monah]

Sorry, just one little thing. If you are still thinking of a low shedder, I'm afraid borders (mine anyway!!) and labs shed like ;) tumble weeds all around the house, and don't even THINK about hairless clothing! or cars!!!

[dancinbcs]

The sheer volume and quality of the responses to date are just awesome. Thanks folks.

As for the reaction to my comment about Airedale Terriers - blimey! As I said, it was simply an immediate reaction - based on the photos on pedigree.com.au (it honestly did look small - and nice, hence "cute"). And no, I've never seen one in the flesh. So to those who know otherwise, I stand corrected.

Likewise with my comment about a mix breed. It was just a thought, and a fleeting one at that.

To Bryan Mannix, I'm in Brissie too - southside.

As for the "negative" commentary on some of the breeds, I don't really mind this. As others have already pointed out, at least you go in with eyes wide open. I prefer this approach - its just that some of the websites seem to really give emphasis to the negatives and do not make sufficiently clear what traits can be considered the norm as opposed to the more extreme. Having said that, I accept that it is important for the negatives to be highlighted too - I'm after honest commentary, not someone just what to tell me what I'd really like to hear.

Right now, I think my list is starting to look like this (in order of preference):

1. Weimaraner

2. Border Collie

3. Labrador

4. Staffy

5. Whippet (still chewing on this one).

The Collie probably just beats the Lab at this stage.

Once I settle on my final list, how do I go about checking out the dogs in the flesh? I know people have suggested going to dog shows and speaking to breeders, but I'm not familiar with the dog circle - how exactly do you locate upcoming dog shows? Does it cost anything to turn up to one? What about breeders, do they get narky if you just turn out to be a tyre kicker? When I bought my house I almost drove my family insane because we checked out at least 40 houses before I started to get a real sense of what I was looking for - I don't think selecting a dog that I'm going to have to live with for at least 10 (or more) years is going to be any faster.

Three other questions that I haven't asked to date are to do with yard size, fencing and prices:

(a) How much room do the breeds I have identified need?

(b) How high should my fence be? At the moment I have a standard chain-link fence between me and my neighbours - say a meter high? I figure that I shouldn't get a dog until I raise the height to at least double this. But will that do - what say you all?

© Finally, what's the typical price range for each of the breeds identified? I know I can get a feel for these off sites like, say, gumtree - but how do I know when someone's asking a bit much?

A Border Collie puppy would definitely not be suited to your home. Maybe a laid back adult but not a puppy. They are probably the most demanding of all breeds to raise and get it right. Once you know the breed they are easy, if time consuming, but new owners often struggle coping with their first puppy that out thinks them at every turn. Their high intelligence means that they need constant training as puppies or they will think up ways to amuse themselves, that I can assure you, will not amuse you. As for fencing, at least 1.8m and be aware that many BCs can climb chainwire like a cat. They are also all quite capable of jumping a 1.8m fence, but most just never discover it. A fence with no footholds is a must.

The males especially need to be with their owners as much as possible. The girls are a little more independant but I still don't sell to anyone where there is no one home for more than 6 hours a day, unless their are other dogs for company.

Borders cope in a normal suburban yard if they have plenty of company and daily exercise but they do prefer acres where they can really run. I have kept them in suburbia for many years but there is nearly always someone home and the dogs compete in shows and obedience and travel most places with me. Keeping their minds occupied is vital.

Price wise a puppy from parents DNA tsted for CL, TNS, CEA as well as beign hip and elbow scored, is about $1000. You may pick up an adult for a bit less if the breeder is looking to rehome an older dog.

Dog shows are free to attend and decent breeders don't mind you tyre kicking so long as you are prepared to wait and talk when they have time. If they are getting ready to go in the ring they will be too busy to talk, so may ask you to come back in an hour or so. In the mean time you can wander around looking at other breeds.

Where are you located? If we know where you are we can let you know when and where shows near you are on.

[shortstep]

Border collie would have been very low on my list for you.

Besides how they look what is attracting them to you? I did rescue for years, border collies are high on the list of dogs taken to the shelter, so you never need to buy one just look at the animal shelter...LOL

Border collie, an intense herding dog, that loves to be on the go all day and that is combine with a mind like no other dog. What every border collies do they do it well, for example they can dismantal your leather couch in 1 hour in the exact reverse order it was put together. Their thick coat sheds all over your house. They can take to barking if lonely and they need close contact with their owners, heaps of training and metal stimlution. I would call them a very demanding breed and I speak from many years of experience with this breed.

Did you read the border collie on What good about them what bad about them?

Border Collie Temperament

What's Good About 'Em,

What's Bad About 'Em

By Michele Welton. Copyright © 2000-2010

This working farm dog is famous for his intimidating "eye" -- a fixed, hypnotic stare as he crouches low and creeps up on the sheep.

One of the most intelligent of all breeds, the Border Collie is also one of the most challenging to live with.

His superior intellect, combined with his intensity and obsessive zeal for working, are his most impressive features -- and also the ones that make him unsuitable for most homes.

This sharp-eyed, quick-thinking, fanatical workaholic has been bred for endless miles of sprinting and stop-and-go action.

If it isn't possible for him to work livestock, you must substitute advanced obedience, agility, jogging or biking, chasing balls, and playing Frisbee -- lots and lots and lots of it.

Without physical and mental stimulation, Border Collies become hyperactive and will drive you up the wall with obsessive and destructive behaviors as they seek creative outlets for their physical and mental energy.

High intelligence does mean they learn very quickly - but that includes learning how to do anything they set their minds to. They are master escape artists who can virtually pick the lock on your gate.

Trying to train a Border Collie, in fact, can be frustrating, because they are constantly thinking, analyzing, and reacting to every tiny movement you make. They can be a bit high-strung and oversensitive to sound and touch.

Border Collies are passionate gatherers of cars, bikes, joggers, cats, other dogs, livestock, deer, and running children -- poking, pushing, and nipping if the pursued person or animal or object doesn't cooperate.

You must stay one step ahead of this challenging breed, and most households are simply not up to the task.

If you want a dog who...

Is medium-sized and natural-looking

Has a handsome, easy-groom coat

Is very athletic and thrives on TONS of exercise and training

Is exceptionally intelligent and versatile -- when well-trained, can learn and do almost anything

Will play fetch for hours and hours

A Border Collie may be right for you.

If you don't want to deal with...

An intense athlete who can drive you up the wall with obsessive and destructive behaviors if you don't provide lots of exercise and creative outlets for his energy

Compulsive chasing and nipping at things that move: children, joggers, other animals, bikes, cars

"Separation anxiety" (destructiveness and barking) when left alone too much

Shyness when not socialized enough

Shedding

A Border Collie may not be right for you.

If I were considering buying or adopting a Border Collie

My major concerns would be:

Providing enough exercise and mental stimulation. Border Collies MUST have frequent opportunities to vent their energy and to use their busy minds to do interesting things. Otherwise they will become rambunctious and bored -- which they usually express by barking and destructive chewing. Bored Border Collies are famous for chewing through drywall, ripping the stuffing out of sofas, and turning your yard into a moonscape of giant craters.

If you simply want a pet for your family, and don't have the time or inclination to take your dog running or hiking or biking or swimming, or to get involved in herding, or agility (obstacle course), or advanced obedience, or tracking, or a similar canine activity, I do not recommend this breed.

Border Collies were never intended to be simply household pets. Their working behaviors (chasing, nipping, poking, barking) are inappropriate in a normal household setting. Trying to suppress these "hardwired" behaviors, without providing alternate outlets for their high energy level, is virtually impossible.

Compulsive chasing and stalking. Most Border Collies are obsessed with stalking and chasing anything that moves -- children, joggers, bicycles, cars, cats, birds. Some Border Collies, unfortunately, go further than that and will seize and kill small running animals, including cats.

Separation anxiety. More than most other breeds, Border Collies need a great deal of companionship and do not like being left alone for more than a few hours. They become anxious, which they express by chewing and barking.

Providing enough socialization. Standoffish by nature, Border Collies need extensive exposure to people and to unusual sights and sounds. Otherwise their natural caution can become shyness.

Training problems. Border Collies are one of smartest and most capable breeds in the world. Many are eager to please and learn very, very quickly. But many Border Collies are very difficult for the average person to train.

Some are manipulative, i.e. using their intelligence to get YOU to do what they want you to do.

Some are willful and dominant (they want to be the boss) and will make you prove that you can make them do things.

Many are so sensitive that if you correct them too harshly, they may freeze and "shut down."

Finally, many Border Collies are frustrating to train because they're hyper-reactive to the slightest sound or movement you make. They are "anticipators" who keep trying to guess what comes next. They will sit, or lie down, or run toward you, or run away from you, when you simply open your mouth or lift your hand.

It often takes an experienced trainer to bring out the inherent genius in this breed. "Respect Training" is mandatory. My Border Collie Training Page discusses the program you need.

Fence security. Quite a few Border Collies are escape artists. With such dogs, fences should be high, with wire sunk into the ground along the fence line to thwart digging. Gates should be extra-secure, as clever Border Collies can virtually pick locks.

Frankly, most Border Collies are "too much dog" for the average household. This is a serious working dog with a complex personality. Very few homes can provide what this breed really needs to be satisfied and well-behaved.

me...

There is not one word of this I disagree with. However as others have said, if you would accpet an adult dog, you might be able to find an adult border collie that was not typical of the breed and was suitable for your home, but you need to work with a rescuer experienced in the breed.

I am being negative again..Sorry but this is know as a high failure breed in unprepared pet homes around the world.

If you want to learn more about BC in person let me known and I can arrange it in QLD.

Edited June 3, 2010 by shortstep

[GoldenWei]

Do you mean a Border Collie or a Rough Collie.... like lassie? I think a collie (both rough and smooth) was suggested to you, but I'd definately not recommand a border collie.

[shortstep]

Just one more comment, please learn how to buy a dog before you go shopping for one.

I would never buy a dog from the Gumtree nor would I use the prices as a guide.

This should be a totally different topic and a very important one.

[shortstep]

One other thing to consider about owning a border collie is you really do need to join the Church. Here is a bit information about that aspect of ownership.

Laughing Dog Press author Laurie Leach

CHURCH OF THE DIVINE BORDER COLLIE

At first glance, the Border Collie (BC) looks like a typical working dog. Border Collie aficionados have graphically described the BC as a well-proportioned chunk of muscle….. Many casual dog owners have mistaken this for an ordinary dog and taken it home. They spend an average of six weeks in rehab getting over the experience.

...It became clear to me in my reading and observation for this article that ownership of a BC ceased to be about owning a dog at some point in history. It became a religion. In order to see if the relationship between BC and owner does in fact meet the criteria, let's start with the Webster definition of religion: A belief in a divine or superhuman power to be obeyed and worshiped as the creator and ruler of the universe. Expression of belief in conduct and ritual. A specific system of beliefs involving a code of ethics and a philosophy.

Let's see if interactions between people and BC fit this bill.

Proof One:

Border Collie people believe, and possibly rightfully, that this is a breed superior to all others. They state unequivocally that they are the world's finest sheepdogs, that they have a stunning intelligence, and that even in a world of technology, they will never be replaced by a machine. Clearly this dog is seen as superhuman. This belief exists despite documented cases of BCs trying for several hours to herd a stump.

Proof Two:

Border Collies have a trait called, “THE EYE.” The eye is a hypnotic stare that the BC turns on anything it wants to control. BC owners talk about “THE EYE” with reverence and love to expound on the way the dogs use it to control sheep. It would be fine if these dogs used “THE EYE” only with sheep, but the BC turns “THE EYE” on anything it might engage to produce fun or work.

Recently I dog-sat a BC for the weekend. Two days. Forty-eight hours of being stared at. No blinking…... Learning to live every day in the presence of “THE EYE” without being institutionalized for a mental or physical collapse is at the heart of success in this religion.

Proof Three:

Border Collie owners speak in tongues. Speaking in tongues, of course, refers to unintelligible sounds viewed by some as a manifestation of a deep religious experience. In the case of the BC owner, speaking in tongues comes in the form of whistles that communicate something between owner and dog. If you attend any sheepdog trials, you will be able to observe this phenomena first hand. The owner will stand in the middle of an arena, lost in space, uttering a series of whistles while her dog races around chasing sheep. It is touching to watch the dog continue his work although his human has clearly crossed over to another dimension.

Proof Four:

Border Collie owners operate by a different set of rituals than other dog owner. They dedicate their days to channeling their dog's energy. They quit their jobs. They are forced to buy acreage. They are directed by their leaders not to leave the dog alone for more than three hours a day lest the pup become bored and remodel the house. Some religions ask members to take a couple of years off to dedicate to the church. The BC owner takes thirteen years off. Unemployment is the sign of the true believer in this church.

I rest my case. Clearly Border Collie ownership goes much beyond an ordinary human-dog relationship.

Joining the Church

Want to be cool? Get a Border Collie.

Want to move a sheep across your 3000 acre ranch? Get two Border Collies.

Want to really compete at agility? Get a Border Collie.

Want to have a job, a life, and your sanity? Get a Lab.

Edited June 3, 2010 by shortstep

[dancinbcs]

One other thing to consider about owning a border collie is you really do need to join the Church. Here is a bit information about that aspect of ownership.

Laughing Dog Press author Laurie Leach

CHURCH OF THE DIVINE BORDER COLLIE

At first glance, the Border Collie (BC) looks like a typical working dog. Border Collie aficionados have graphically described the BC as a well-proportioned chunk of muscle….. Many casual dog owners have mistaken this for an ordinary dog and taken it home. They spend an average of six weeks in rehab getting over the experience.

...It became clear to me in my reading and observation for this article that ownership of a BC ceased to be about owning a dog at some point in history. It became a religion. In order to see if the relationship between BC and owner does in fact meet the criteria, let's start with the Webster definition of religion: A belief in a divine or superhuman power to be obeyed and worshiped as the creator and ruler of the universe. Expression of belief in conduct and ritual. A specific system of beliefs involving a code of ethics and a philosophy.

Let's see if interactions between people and BC fit this bill.

Proof One:

Border Collie people believe, and possibly rightfully, that this is a breed superior to all others. They state unequivocally that they are the world's finest sheepdogs, that they have a stunning intelligence, and that even in a world of technology, they will never be replaced by a machine. Clearly this dog is seen as superhuman. This belief exists despite documented cases of BCs trying for several hours to herd a stump.

Proof Two:

Border Collies have a trait called, “THE EYE.” The eye is a hypnotic stare that the BC turns on anything it wants to control. BC owners talk about “THE EYE” with reverence and love to expound on the way the dogs use it to control sheep. It would be fine if these dogs used “THE EYE” only with sheep, but the BC turns “THE EYE” on anything it might engage to produce fun or work.

Recently I dog-sat a BC for the weekend. Two days. Forty-eight hours of being stared at. No blinking…... Learning to live every day in the presence of “THE EYE” without being institutionalized for a mental or physical collapse is at the heart of success in this religion.

Proof Three:

Border Collie owners speak in tongues. Speaking in tongues, of course, refers to unintelligible sounds viewed by some as a manifestation of a deep religious experience. In the case of the BC owner, speaking in tongues comes in the form of whistles that communicate something between owner and dog. If you attend any sheepdog trials, you will be able to observe this phenomena first hand. The owner will stand in the middle of an arena, lost in space, uttering a series of whistles while her dog races around chasing sheep. It is touching to watch the dog continue his work although his human has clearly crossed over to another dimension.

Proof Four:

Border Collie owners operate by a different set of rituals than other dog owner. They dedicate their days to channeling their dog's energy. They quit their jobs. They are forced to buy acreage. They are directed by their leaders not to leave the dog alone for more than three hours a day lest the pup become bored and remodel the house. Some religions ask members to take a couple of years off to dedicate to the church. The BC owner takes thirteen years off. Unemployment is the sign of the true believer in this church.

I rest my case. Clearly Border Collie ownership goes much beyond an ordinary human-dog relationship.

Joining the Church

Want to be cool? Get a Border Collie.

Want to move a sheep across your 3000 acre ranch? Get two Border Collies.

Want to really compete at agility? Get a Border Collie.

Want to have a job, a life, and your sanity? Get a Lab.

:p

So True. From one who has worshipped at the Church of Border Collie for 27 years.

;) ;)

[Danois]

With weims still on the top of the list - perhaps some experience weim owners/ breeders should set out the things to look for in a good breeder as I know from previously having a dog with a dilute (blue) gene, there can be some health issues around the immune system.

I am also assuming weims are a bloat prone breed? From my own experience, owning a bloat prone breed takes a bit of planning/ organisation and being mindful of separation anxiety given stress is thought to be a cause of bloat.

[Gayle.]

I am not against negative comments, I am against ONLY negative comments. Give a balanced view of the breed. If you own the breed and clearly love it, why would you NOT recommend it to someone for whom it might be suitable?

Comments such as 'I had to do all this for my dog but doing it would probably kill you to do the same" help no one. Particularly of a breed that is entirely suitable for thousands and thousands of families.