tlc Posted May 31, 2010 Share Posted May 31, 2010 Just wanted to mention also that I have read in a few spots that a dog with crystals should have a more wet/moist diet, so dry food is not neccessarily the best option, but this can be hard if dry is all they ill eat! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karly101 Posted May 31, 2010 Share Posted May 31, 2010 C/d can be fed long term... s/d is the one that cannot. As for increasing thirst that is not true.. it just means that the dog is getting less water out of the food so needs to drink more to compensate for that...overall they should not be consuming more water than before its just that they are getting less from the food. They do make a wet c/d as well so that is something to consider. You could also look into Royal Canin but I'm told is more expensive? The diet is not designed to increase thirst.. rather it is low protein, phosphorous, magnesium and calcium that makes your dog have a more acidic urine. There are recipes around for homecooked low protein and phosphorous diets but I'd run these past your vet first (my vet had one in his nutrition for small animals textbook). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MavericksMission Posted May 31, 2010 Share Posted May 31, 2010 Mine both get Eagle Pack - Holistic Select and they are doing really well on it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CavsRcute Posted May 31, 2010 Share Posted May 31, 2010 When my Cavlier has dry food it is Nutro Lamb(light) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted May 31, 2010 Share Posted May 31, 2010 TLC: My theory....Cooper only eating a lot of grain based food and not a lot else, this is how he developed the crystals in the first place? I do feel the change of diet has maybe not caused the crystals but flaired up what ever is going on in there? I don't know how to explain it but it is a worry for sure. My solution for the time being is now I have cut back his eagle pack intake and mixed in half supercoat supplementing also with chicken wings or necks and he still has a couple of bones a week. Or he has had a recurring bladder infection that antibiotics aren't completely knocking out of his system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rysup Posted May 31, 2010 Share Posted May 31, 2010 Ive used Eagle Pack Holistic, Artemis Maximal, Artemis Adult Fresh Mix, and have finally settled my boy on Nutro Lamb & Rice. Its the first food he has been able to eat and not have chronic diarrhea. I've come to the conclusion he is allergic to wheat AND chicken. He also LOVES it, unlike the others. He likes to try and steal the Coprice that the rest of the gang here are on, but he isnt allowed to have that, it goes straight through him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
animalia Posted May 31, 2010 Share Posted May 31, 2010 (edited) From memory when I went to TAFE Urolithiasis was described as- Aggregation of crystalline along the urinary tract that can cause inflammation and or blockage of the urinary tract. Males are more prone to blockage due to the greater length and smaller diameter of the urethra. Struvite uroliths is when crystals form stones. Carnivores eating high protein diets produce acid which results in acid urine. Below a pH of 6.6 struvite remains in solution, if the urinary pH rises above 7.1 crystallisation may occur. A major nutritional factor in the development of urolithiasis is the injestion of a diet which results in alkaline urine Clinical signs -Anorexia -weight loss -depression -hunched posture -no urine or haematuria (blood in urine) -frequent attempts at urination The aim of dietary management in struvite associated Urolithiasis is to: - -to produce a high urine output - this is achieved by feeding a high moisture content diet -have a low magnesium level in diet -produce urine which is acid Treatment -surgical removal of stone -treatment of infection Hope this helps! Edited May 31, 2010 by animalia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tlc Posted May 31, 2010 Share Posted May 31, 2010 TLC: My theory....Cooper only eating a lot of grain based food and not a lot else, this is how he developed the crystals in the first place? I do feel the change of diet has maybe not caused the crystals but flaired up what ever is going on in there? I don't know how to explain it but it is a worry for sure. My solution for the time being is now I have cut back his eagle pack intake and mixed in half supercoat supplementing also with chicken wings or necks and he still has a couple of bones a week. Or he has had a recurring bladder infection that antibiotics aren't completely knocking out of his system. Infection was my first initial thought at the start of all this (12 months ago) and also the vet said that would be his first job to test for UTI so on the first bout of blood the vet got a good sample strait from the bladder as he had the cathetar inserted and what came out was just blood red. He tested that and they found no crystals or no infection So the second bout of blood Cooper had ultra sound which also showed no crystals or stones on the same day we got a decent sample which looked clear and he wasn't straining to go and that was tested for infection and there was none. SO my boy is a bit of a mystery. Each time I have noticed him straining to go and there is blood it lasts about 4 days and then it goes away, so this has happened 3 times and the last time was when I noticed not only blood but kind of like a clot that had the consistancy of gritty dirt. The vet said it sounded like crystals and if I get another one to bring it in for testing but since then he has been fine! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted May 31, 2010 Share Posted May 31, 2010 Why not seek out the services of a GOOD canine Naturopath? I have my boy with one at the present and have found her excellent not only in her advice and ongoing support in working through my boy's (complicated) issues, but I enjoy the fact that she will work in and around Veterinary reports and recommendations as well (ie takes them into account). The Naturopath should also be able to assist you in ensuring that the natural diet you have your dog on contains the vitamins/minerals that your dog needs and if it doesn't, will be able to offer supplements to balance this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tlc Posted June 1, 2010 Share Posted June 1, 2010 Good advice Erny! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunnyflower Posted June 1, 2010 Author Share Posted June 1, 2010 From memory when I went to TAFE Urolithiasis was described as-Aggregation of crystalline along the urinary tract that can cause inflammation and or blockage of the urinary tract. Males are more prone to blockage due to the greater length and smaller diameter of the urethra. Struvite uroliths is when crystals form stones. Carnivores eating high protein diets produce acid which results in acid urine. Below a pH of 6.6 struvite remains in solution, if the urinary pH rises above 7.1 crystallisation may occur. A major nutritional factor in the development of urolithiasis is the injestion of a diet which results in alkaline urine Clinical signs -Anorexia -weight loss -depression -hunched posture -no urine or haematuria (blood in urine) -frequent attempts at urination The aim of dietary management in struvite associated Urolithiasis is to: - -to produce a high urine output - this is achieved by feeding a high moisture content diet -have a low magnesium level in diet -produce urine which is acid Treatment -surgical removal of stone -treatment of infection Hope this helps! Thank you for that information. I just called the vet then to confirm if it is actually Struvite Crystals as I was starting to get really confused and second guess myself. She said that there is "traces" of Struvite and that they need to determine the underlying problem. She didn't like that I was questioning here and I told her that I want to do my own research so I understand it completely for myself and that I have spoken to people that understand or have experienced this particular issue and have offered help and advice. Her response "well you need to understand that these people aren't vets". I'm aware of that and I can appreciate that but it really doesn't hurt for us to do our research. Animalia - all of those symptoms that you have put down for Struvite Crystal Oscar didn't suffer from one of them. If she suggests surgery then I certainly will get a second opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunnyflower Posted June 1, 2010 Author Share Posted June 1, 2010 sorry TLC I just assumed he was an "older" boy.. He is still a spring chicken. Sorry Cooper.. The prescription biscuit they have put me on is $72 for 4.5kgs, definitely not something I realistic could afford if that's all he was allowed to eat. Definitely not something I could really budget for anyways but it would be easier to swollow if he was allowed his mince, veggies and bones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kirst_goldens Posted June 1, 2010 Share Posted June 1, 2010 from my understanding - struvite crystals can be caused by infections... infections can be caused by holding urine in a full bladder too long?? Oks correct me if im wrong people but sounds ot me like u should find another vet and get a second opinion.. I read in ur OT that u boy was stuck under the house and didnt go to the toilet for quite some time so this seems to be a big part of the problem and if my assumptions are correct then the specialst diet shouldnt be needed... i would say antibiotics to clear the infections and maybe the special diet till there is no signs of crystals anymore - though she only said signs of crystals? then i would say put him on a raw diet though i am biased and nopt all are able to do this so maybe just a high quality kibble would do.. Would be getting another opinion for sure though this vet sounds like she might be taking u for a ride if she doesnt like u learning for urself?? just my 2 cents lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunnyflower Posted June 1, 2010 Author Share Posted June 1, 2010 (edited) from my understanding - struvite crystals can be caused by infections... infections can be caused by holding urine in a full bladder too long?? Oks correct me if im wrong people but sounds ot me like u should find another vet and get a second opinion.. I read in ur OT that u boy was stuck under the house and didnt go to the toilet for quite some time so this seems to be a big part of the problem and if my assumptions are correct then the specialst diet shouldnt be needed... i would say antibiotics to clear the infections and maybe the special diet till there is no signs of crystals anymore - though she only said signs of crystals? then i would say put him on a raw diet though i am biased and nopt all are able to do this so maybe just a high quality kibble would do.. Would be getting another opinion for sure though this vet sounds like she might be taking u for a ride if she doesnt like u learning for urself?? just my 2 cents lol Kirst I like your two cents. What you are saying is EXACTLY what I am thinking. He wasn't able to go potty for over 24 hours and he had no blood prior to this. I do definitely feel as though I am being taken for a ride, there are no two ways about it. We still have 9 days left of the anti-biotics and his urine is already clear. I do feel him going on anti-biotics was essential. I will have him checked over again this Friday when I pick up his biscuits and depending on what she says I will get a second opinion. I know I'm not a vet but I certainly know my dog. My life seriously revolves around him . I'll get him checked over on Friday, which I know he will get a clean bill of health, we'll start him on this fang dango biscuit, finish his meds and then I think I'll monitor him from there. I am getting daily samples of his urine to see the change in colour, so I will continue to do that, if his urine gets anymore blood in it then I'll go to another vet. Oscar now currently eats Raw Kangaroo mince, veggies, chicken drumsticks and beef offcuts from the butcher and his dried biscuit. Sometimes when I can get chicken on special I will buy it and boil it for him and pull all the chicken away and give him that with veggies and a little bit of rice. I have just started to give him some Apple Cider Vinegar as well in his meals. My boy eats very well, so I will just slowly change his biscuit and cut down the amount he is eating. What you are saying and everyone has been saying makes completely sense so minimising the biscuit is what we'll do. very thankful for everyones help Edited June 1, 2010 by Sunnyflower Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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