jazzygirl Posted May 30, 2010 Share Posted May 30, 2010 Just needing a little advice please guys. As you know we have had our first litter of pups, all has been great until today. Jazz has decided to TRY and keep moving the runt of the litter out and into the next kennel (both our kennels are big apple crate's, fully lined. We keep seeing her do this and it was only today that it started. We have now closed the other kennel off so she can't move little Indie. Has anyone experienced this before and why might she be only the 1 pup? We know it's only the one pup because we watched her after she had moved Indie for the next 20 minutes and she didn't attempt to move any other pups And advice/ help would be much appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozwildflower Posted May 30, 2010 Share Posted May 30, 2010 Just needing a little advice please guys. As you know we have had our first litter of pups, all has been great until today. Jazz has decided to TRY and keep moving the runt of the litter out and into the next kennel (both our kennels are big apple crate's, fully lined. We keep seeing her do this and it was only today that it started. We have now closed the other kennel off so she can't move little Indie. Has anyone experienced this before and why might she be only the 1 pup? We know it's only the one pup because we watched her after she had moved Indie for the next 20 minutes and she didn't attempt to move any other pups And advice/ help would be much appreciated. I do hope everything is okay for you, however, the only time I have had this happen is when something is wrong with the pup and mother rejects it. It might be worth your taking the pup in to the vet for a check-up and/or supplement feed. Could be that mum is just inexperienced and has more than she feel she can cope with. Maybe others will have more or better advice. Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazzygirl Posted May 30, 2010 Author Share Posted May 30, 2010 Thanks ozwildflower. I will get her to the vet for a check up first thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ellz Posted May 30, 2010 Share Posted May 30, 2010 Yep, I hate to agree but it has been my experience that generally if a bitch is moving a puppy away, she is trying to remove a "faulty" puppy from the litter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WreckitWhippet Posted May 30, 2010 Share Posted May 30, 2010 If my bitches have an otherwise healthy litter that are doing well, I believe they do know best and that there is something not right with the pup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cockerlover Posted May 30, 2010 Share Posted May 30, 2010 Have to agree with other replys ,we dont give our dogs the credit they deserve ,its a case of mother knows bst ,suggest u gt the pup checked by vet ,are u sup feeding the wee one ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted May 30, 2010 Share Posted May 30, 2010 I agree- a runt is often that way because of a malformation, like cleft palate ( I presume you had them checked at birth?)..or it is for some reason not digesting food/something else is wrong. The runt may be weaker/smell different/beghave differently ..so mum removes it to care for the healthy ones. Nature knows best most times, but sometimes human intervention can help bring a runt back. Best of luck with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazzygirl Posted May 30, 2010 Author Share Posted May 30, 2010 Thankyou all so much. We couldn't wait until tomorrow and we called the vet and she was fantastic, seeing us late on a sunday. Indie has been fully checked and vet tells us all is normal and she is a healthy girl While she is smaller, she is doing well. The vet told us there could be many reasons Jazz decided to move the pup. Then she went on to ask how often we handle them or do we handle Indie more than the others. as the smells we pass on could upset Jazz. We informed her that we only handle the pups 1 a day to do a bed change and check the pups. We now have a couple of pairs of cotton gloves to wear when doing this. We have been told to watch her over the next 48 hours and if needed, we may have to sup feed little Indie, but not just yet. I will do whatever it takes to help little Indie through this if Jazz can't. Yes persephone, they were checkde by the same vet the day they were born and all given a clean bill of health. (Apart from the 1 male we lost at birth THANKYOU all so much for your advice, my mind is at ease. I just hope Jazz doesn't sense anything the vet can't seem find. Like you say, mother knows best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christina Posted May 30, 2010 Share Posted May 30, 2010 Only once with a cat. For some reason mum kept bringing this one kitten to the door & making a noise for me to come. It was a big litter & the kitten was perfectly healthy & normal size. Maybe she just felt there were too many I used to go in, pick kitten up & put back on mum. It fed ok & she would settle with it & cart it to the door again later. Happened about twice a day for a few days then stopped. Kitten grew to a healthy adult. Usually rejection does mean something wrong but who knows. All you can do now is keep an eye on it. Hope its ok. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ellz Posted May 31, 2010 Share Posted May 31, 2010 The vet told us there could be many reasons Jazz decided to move the pup. Then she went on to ask how often we handle them or do we handle Indie more than the others. as the smells we pass on could upset Jazz. Don't know about other breeders but this concerns me greatly! Puppies NEED handling to stimulate them neurologically and to accustom them to handling when they are older. My puppies are handled every day of their lives from birth and I have never yet had a bitch reject a puppy due to human handling in 24 years of breeding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aziah Posted May 31, 2010 Share Posted May 31, 2010 Ellz - same as you and the only time I've had a bitch 'reject' a puppy is when she knows there's something not quite right... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted May 31, 2010 Share Posted May 31, 2010 Ellz - same as you and the only time I've had a bitch 'reject' a puppy is when she knows there's something not quite right... X2 A wild animal may well reject/cannibalise young if they smell humans on them. A dog living its life closely with a family ? Should not be the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baileys mum Posted May 31, 2010 Share Posted May 31, 2010 I'm with Ellz & Aziah here, At the moment we are raising our first litter of 8 puppies, My OH & I have been handling all our pups several times a day since birth. My bitch (this is her first litter) has never had a problem with this, she loves & trusts us & has been a wonderful mother to all her puppies. In all the books I have read about breeding they have all said that if a bitch rejects/neglects one of her puppies, but is still caring for all the others then there is a good chance that there is something not right with the rejected puppy & the bitch can sense this. :p Maybe you should supplement feed this pup & get the pup checked with another vet, just to be on the safe side. I hope everything will be alright. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortstep Posted May 31, 2010 Share Posted May 31, 2010 I have had dog moms attempt to move their babies and the babies were not sick. It was always because they felt the pups were not safe. Make sure no other dogs can not get near the puppy room, I do not let them stand outside the door of the nursery either, if need be keep them outside or in the far end of the house. If you have visitors keep them away from the nursery area. Don't crowed her with a lot of people looking at the puppies all at one time. Draw the curtains in the room and keep the lights low. She needs a private and quite place, a place she feels no other dogs or strange people can get to her babies. This very protective period will last a couple of weeks. Usually by week 3 they start to relax and you can move the pups to more public areas for short periods of time, again keep the other dogs away. I handle my pups from birth several times a day and this is very important to do. Sit down on the foor next to the box. I sit with the mom and just coo at her and stroke her too and tell her how wonderful she is and stroke the puppies too while she watches me. Mom will soon relax and know you are not going to hurt the babies. At first I just hold them in my hands but low down and next to mom and the other pups. This holding them low is not for the pups it is to reassure mom I am not going to hurt them or take them away. Soon I am holding them in my hands just a little bit away from mom. After a few days she will be Ok with you hldoing the pups provided you do not move them out if her direct area. Hope this helps a little. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Baggins Posted May 31, 2010 Share Posted May 31, 2010 Like everyone else I think the mum knows there is something wrong with the pup. I handle the pups frequently to weigh and jsut touch. mum never gets upset. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Baggins Posted May 31, 2010 Share Posted May 31, 2010 I suggest you read this from the Chinaroad site "DEVELOPING HIGH ACHIEVERS" Originally published as "Early Neurological Stimulation" by Dr. Carmen Battaglia Google Early Neurological Stimulation I can not get the link to work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MissMonaro Posted May 31, 2010 Share Posted May 31, 2010 (edited) I had a bitch that used to carry one particular pup around with her in her mouth. Whenever she hopped in the whelping box she would pick him up before she sat down so that he was always next to her. If you went near the box, she would pick him straight up as though she didnt want you to touch him. At the start she would carry him to the soft crate as it would appear that is where she wanted to raise the pups....we got a really huge box and put it in the whelping box and draped a sheet over the front making her a cave and she settled down after that. But she sure did have a thing for this one pup. Edited to add - she has now just had her second litter (they are 5 1/2 weeks old) and although she has picked them up to move them so she could sit down, she has not been obsessed with any of them this time around. Edited May 31, 2010 by MissMonaro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazzygirl Posted May 31, 2010 Author Share Posted May 31, 2010 Thankyou guys and I understand what you are saying. I don't think I explain quite right in my last post after coming home from the vet. She was more interested in us passing on "other smells" while doing bed changes etc. She did say however not to handle them alot as this may be upsetting Jazz We done hourly watch last night and all throughout today and Jazz has been fine with Indie and no attempts to move her again. we have also been sitting with Jazz and pups every 2 to 3 hours to be sure that Indie is getting enough milk and so far all has been great. I appreciate everything you guys have told me, it means alot, I am going to handle the pups as you guys have suggested and see what happenes. Still a bit confused as to the "don't handle them alot" as the vet suggested. Unless I didn't understand her, but I'm sure I did. Maybe I need a second opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazzygirl Posted May 31, 2010 Author Share Posted May 31, 2010 bilbo baggins - THANKYOU. I just read DEVELOPING HIGH ACHIEVERS as you suggested. I am now going to take this advice and start using the 5 methods of stimulation I can't thankyou enough for that info I'm just hoping I'm not too late ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cockerlover Posted May 31, 2010 Share Posted May 31, 2010 handling yr puppies from day 1is of the upmost inportnce imo ,vets r great for medical consolts but not mant know much about breeding . raising a litter ect . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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