Broken Leg

[Winterpaws]

Just wondering what people think about this as I am finding it hard to get my head around.

Last week my 11 year old ridgy slipped and somehow shattered her shin bone. Is that something normal for an older dog? I asked the vet if she had osteo issues and she said no. I asked about bone cancer and she said no.

She's got her leg in plaster and it will be like that for 3 months. Apparently we probably will eventually be able to leave her by herself but not for more than a few hours and she will not be able to be left in the yard with the other big dogs. That's OK we can manage around that somehow I guess

Adding to this 3 weeks ago she had bloat, it was pretty serious, they removed her spleen, found a tumour on the spleen and also removed part of her stomach. It was an intense 3 hour surgery they tell me and the anaesthetic knocked her around a lot. She fell the day before she was due to have the tummy full of stitches out .

My vets have changed hands and the one I have been dealing with on the two emergencies is ummmm hard to talk to, I've been told they are a very capable vet, I guess I feel like I am being fobbed off a bit? For example yesterday I called to say that we could not get her to drink and they told me there is water in food and as long as she eats then not to worry, I thought it was the opposite?

But I will give them credit as they did send the vet nurse down with the car when she fell as I was home alone and could not mover her by myself, that was very nice of them and helped a lot!

I just struggle with the idea that she can slip and shatter her bone - it's not a clean break, there are shards where it just shattered. I'm worried about long term issues and more breaks

[fifi]

So sorry to hear this WP.

Is this the rescue girl we talked about a few years ago ? the LW one ?

I guess its very similar to elderly people where you have brittle bone that fracture easily. Usually associated with osteoporosis. If she were human they'd probably do a bone denisty scan. There was no sign of degenerative joint disease or arthritis ?

We dont know if she was leaching or not properly absorbing minerals either.

She does need to be drinking, I think I'd be getting a 2nd opinion there.

Have you tried chicken broth ? boil up some chicken & give her the water.

poor old girl, I have to say after my old girl Molly went through surgery for torsion & splenic torsion, she didn't bounce back & tumours were scanned on her liver. we made a decision years ago, that we don't put the older dogs through this surgery now, I just havn't seen enough recover sufficiently with long term quality. But that is for our breed, who are old at eight. I've seen old dogs in other breeds spring back :-)

Quite a few people are using the stem cell supplements with reported success.

fifi

[OSoSwift]

WHat an awful few weeks for you.

She sounds like she is a toughie with all that she has been through.

I would also be a little bit worried about the strength of her bones if she slipped and shattered a bone. Yes the bones get more brittle as a dog ages ( same as people) but I have never seen a dog slip and shatter one. I have seen a Sibe slide off a seat when then person had to brake hard and she broke her femur, which was pinned but didn't heal and she had it amputated.

I guess at this point I would concentrate on getting her eating and resting and I would consider adding bone food to her diet. It isn't calcium alone and may help the integrity of her bones in general and help to heal her fracture site.

I worked for a vet that was brilliant and was an exceptional orthopedic surgeon, but talking wasn't his strong point. Sometimes the bedside manner can be lacking and it is hard as it doesn't help you feel at ease.

BEst of luck with your old girl and I am sending all the healing vibes to you I can.

[Winterpaws]

So sorry to hear this WP.

Is this the rescue girl we talked about a few years ago ? the LW one ?

I guess its very similar to elderly people where you have brittle bone that fracture easily. Usually associated with osteoporosis. If she were human they'd probably do a bone denisty scan. There was no sign of degenerative joint disease or arthritis ?

We dont know if she was leaching or not properly absorbing minerals either.

She does need to be drinking, I think I'd be getting a 2nd opinion there.

Have you tried chicken broth ? boil up some chicken & give her the water.

poor old girl, I have to say after my old girl Molly went through surgery for torsion & splenic torsion, she didn't bounce back & tumours were scanned on her liver. we made a decision years ago, that we don't put the older dogs through this surgery now, I just havn't seen enough recover sufficiently with long term quality. But that is for our breed, who are old at eight. I've seen old dogs in other breeds spring back :-)

Quite a few people are using the stem cell supplements with reported success.

fifi

It is her Fifi and I updated her breeder on what is happening and she has been fantastic. I feel so bad that I've not made the time to get up there and see them, it's on the priority list for when she is mobile again

When they did the surgery for the stomach they said they wouldn't like to do another surgery on her - she had intusuccpetion last year and had a big surgery (though this new vet tells me it wasn't intusucception, but buggered if I know where I would have got that word from!!!!! I'm positive they told me the bowel twisted) for that. But then they put her under GA for this and one of the options was surgery for the leg? I've had so many rescues here over the years and so have seen the range of how they recover from surgery and she is the worst. She was fine last year with that surgery but these two things have really knocked her around hard

I ended up making up a beef stock yesterday and put a bit of that in some water to encourage her to drink

They mentioned nothing about athritis or anything like that?

[KZs Mum]

Some food for thought for you would be: why did she slip in the first place? And how can you prevent it happening again?

Look at the risks around your home for her, then modify as appropriate. I know some dogs that wear grip shoes as they're on floorboards, other options are putting mats down on tiles, a step off to get on/off couch if needed etc. etc.

Poor little lady - I hope she recovers soon! and copes well with further surgery.

[Erny]

I have nothing to add that would be of any use, WP, other than to say "what a trial your poor ridgy has gone through" and I can empathise for her and also for you. If it were me, I'd probably want to look more into the 'bone density' angle of things regardless of what this Vet has said, and yes, I too would be a bit concerned that the Vet isn't concerned about her drinking if she is eating, although eating is a good sign and depending on the food type, yes it does contain water in itself.

Good luck - I hope your girl's recovery is swift (as can be) and smooth sailing from now, with no more incidents in the future

[Staff'n'Toller]

I would be concerned that the tumour on the spleen is connected to the leg. Could be totally unrelated but I think if you have doubts then you need to go further with it.

I would be sending the xrays off to a specialist, we use Charles Kuntz down here in Melbourne, he is great with offering a 2nd opinion.

[aussielover]

Sorry to hear about your poor girl

Is there another vet at the same practice- perhaps you could speak with them as this one seems a bit offhand and rude.

I hope it is nothing serious and your girl recovers well.

[Winterpaws]

WHat an awful few weeks for you.

She sounds like she is a toughie with all that she has been through.

I would also be a little bit worried about the strength of her bones if she slipped and shattered a bone. Yes the bones get more brittle as a dog ages ( same as people) but I have never seen a dog slip and shatter one. I have seen a Sibe slide off a seat when then person had to brake hard and she broke her femur, which was pinned but didn't heal and she had it amputated.

I guess at this point I would concentrate on getting her eating and resting and I would consider adding bone food to her diet. It isn't calcium alone and may help the integrity of her bones in general and help to heal her fracture site.

I worked for a vet that was brilliant and was an exceptional orthopedic surgeon, but talking wasn't his strong point. Sometimes the bedside manner can be lacking and it is hard as it doesn't help you feel at ease.

BEst of luck with your old girl and I am sending all the healing vibes to you I can.

Thanks When you say bone food, what do you use or reccomend?

I have nothing to add that would be of any use, WP, other than to say "what a trial your poor ridgy has gone through" and I can empathise for her and also for you. If it were me, I'd probably want to look more into the 'bone density' angle of things regardless of what this Vet has said, and yes, I too would be a bit concerned that the Vet isn't concerned about her drinking if she is eating, although eating is a good sign and depending on the food type, yes it does contain water in itself.

Good luck - I hope your girl's recovery is swift (as can be) and smooth sailing from now, with no more incidents in the future

Thanks Erny, she's the sweetest ridgy you could ever meet

I would be concerned that the tumour on the spleen is connected to the leg. Could be totally unrelated but I think if you have doubts then you need to go further with it.

I would be sending the xrays off to a specialist, we use Charles Kuntz down here in Melbourne, he is great with offering a 2nd opinion.

I am very concerned about that but the vets don't seem to be as worried

Sorry to hear about your poor girl ;)

Is there another vet at the same practice- perhaps you could speak with them as this one seems a bit offhand and rude.

I hope it is nothing serious and your girl recovers well.

We tried that on the morning of the bloat incident and had no luck. I did actually ask for another vet to have a look

Fifi - I meant to say that if I had the choice of whether to do the surgery I am not 100% sure of what I would have said. When they called they said that the liquid they had pumped from her stomach indicated that the spleen would be involved. They said they would do exploratoy surgery and get back to me. 4 hours later I followed them up to find out what was going on and was told that they had done this massive surgery. I'm thrilled she is still with us obviously, but if they had called me and said there was a tumour present I am not sure what I would have said and whether I would have opted for surgery....

I don't think the vet is bad, they've done a remarkable job both times and my girl is here with us and comfortable. But I am worried long term that there is more going on

[stormie]

Hey WP. Sorry I haven't replied to you yet.

Did the vets tell you exactly what they thought the splenic tumour was? In older dogs, they can get masses in their spleen which aren't tumours as such, but more a haemangioma (a benign tumour of the splenic blood vessels) and also the possibility of a haematoma, and splenic nodules, all of which are benign.

So we wouldn't be trying to connect the shattered leg with the splenic tumour at this stage because it's quite possible they aren't related at all.

Shame they didn't get the tumour histo'd because then you'd potentially have your answer.

As to her shin shattering, one would naturally firstly think osteosarcoma in this sort of situation. Sometimes it's not always obvious on an xray, but I'm assuming they will continue to xray her leg to monitor its healing progress, in which case it will become more obvious if this is what it is.

Obviously too, dogs can just twist themselves at the wrong angle and snap a bone. Osteoporosis is something else to consider which again, you cannot always diagnose via xray.

We not long ago had a 14yo BC who broke his radius, which like the tibia (I'm assuming by shin you're talking about her tibia) has a poor blood supply, poor muscle protection and is slow to heal. We aligned it and put it in a cast which came off after about 9weeks and he is able to walk really well now.

Hope she is feeling better and you aren't stressing too much.

[OSoSwift]

Sorry I haven' posted sooner - it appears that "Bone Food" isn't available any more - It was some years ago that I last saw it. That was it's name it was a mixture of Calcium, phospherous and other vitamins and things to help good bone density and growth. Someone may know of something similar.

Hope your girl is drinking now.

[Winterpaws]

Thanks Rommi

Hey WP. Sorry I haven't replied to you yet.

Did the vets tell you exactly what they thought the splenic tumour was? In older dogs, they can get masses in their spleen which aren't tumours as such, but more a haemangioma (a benign tumour of the splenic blood vessels) and also the possibility of a haematoma, and splenic nodules, all of which are benign.

So we wouldn't be trying to connect the shattered leg with the splenic tumour at this stage because it's quite possible they aren't related at all.

Shame they didn't get the tumour histo'd because then you'd potentially have your answer.

As to her shin shattering, one would naturally firstly think osteosarcoma in this sort of situation. Sometimes it's not always obvious on an xray, but I'm assuming they will continue to xray her leg to monitor its healing progress, in which case it will become more obvious if this is what it is.

Obviously too, dogs can just twist themselves at the wrong angle and snap a bone. Osteoporosis is something else to consider which again, you cannot always diagnose via xray.

We not long ago had a 14yo BC who broke his radius, which like the tibia (I'm assuming by shin you're talking about her tibia) has a poor blood supply, poor muscle protection and is slow to heal. We aligned it and put it in a cast which came off after about 9weeks and he is able to walk really well now.

Hope she is feeling better and you aren't stressing too much.

They had actually saved the tumour for me but I told them to have it They said there was not really much point in testing it as even if it showed cancer it still wouldn't tell us how far the cancer had spread

The legs giving out seems to be something that affects her moreso in winter. We discussed today maybe using an athritis med like Previcox long term but I just looked at my bill and it was $44.30 for 10 tablets That is a lot of money for meds but I guess if she needs it we find the money somehow? I am really stressing a bit about how to sort her out on the flooring here - it is all tiles and that doesn't seem to help her at all

She had her bandages changed today and she was very good. I expected her to act up but she actually sat quite still and let them take off all the bandages and put a fresh lot over the plaster cast (it's only a half one). The only time she flinched was when they were pulling the tape off the groin area, the skin is quite pink there so she may have had a little reaction

[stormie]

Yeah previcox is probably the most expensive NSAID, but it works out cheaper if you buy the largest pack. For example with us, with the difference between the 10pack and the 60pack, comparing the cost, you're essentially getting 10 for free if you buy the 60's.

One that might work out a bit more cost effective is the generic Rimadyl - Carprofen. It's not flavoured, but half the price per tablet and the same thing.

Tramadol is pretty cheap too compared to the NSAIDs and is just as good for arthritis.

She sounds like she's being a real trooper with the whole thing

[Winterpaws]

Yeah previcox is probably the most expensive NSAID, but it works out cheaper if you buy the largest pack. For example with us, with the difference between the 10pack and the 60pack, comparing the cost, you're essentially getting 10 for free if you buy the 60's.

One that might work out a bit more cost effective is the generic Rimadyl - Carprofen. It's not flavoured, but half the price per tablet and the same thing.

Tramadol is pretty cheap too compared to the NSAIDs and is just as good for arthritis.

She sounds like she's being a real trooper with the whole thing

Is tramadol different to tramal?

She also mentioned needing a blood test every 3 months if we do use the previcox?

My head is spinning with questions

[smooch]

[Quote -Is tramadol different to tramal?

She also mentioned needing a blood test every 3 months if we do use the previcox?

My head is spinning with questions

tramadol and tramal are the same thing so is Zydol (Tramadol Hydrochloride).

Hope the leg heals well.

Edited June 1, 2010 by smooch