Dog Laying Down In Sit Stay

[Mas1981]

My dog kept lying down in the sit stay during our lesson today, I went closer and rewarded him more frequently while he was up but he made it very hard by wanting to lay down the whole time. Any advice??

[sas]

Any reason for him to be dropping i.e. soreness?

I'm not sure what type of training you do i.e. positive etc, the work I have done with my trainer in the past is about starting Sit Stays in small time increments and working up to longer ones and doing 3 ones where he wins and one where he fails....I don't train 100% positive, I use corrections with this specific dog so that may not be suitable for you.

[Mas1981]

Any reason for him to be dropping i.e. soreness?

I'm not sure what type of training you do i.e. positive etc, the work I have done with my trainer in the past is about starting Sit Stays in small time increments and working up to longer ones and doing 3 ones where he wins and one where he fails....I don't train 100% positive, I use corrections with this specific dog so that may not be suitable for you.

I think he could have been hot and tired, we had a long session this morning where the trainer worked with us each for a short while and then we stood around watching, stays were done at the end and by this time he was just hot and bothered ( he gets hot in the sun even if its not warm as he is black) so maybe thats it. He normally stays really well but just today he wanted to lie down. He did slip and fall at the park yesterday but I have not noticed that he is sore at all.

[Steve K9Pro]

K9: there are two common reasons this occurs, one is the the dog has no drive for your work, ie the dog is not invested. The second is that there is no clear communication marking the sit position.

[ness]

Sounds like it was possibly tiredness in this instance but if you try one when he is fresh and he is still struggling I wouldn't rule out soreness. Sometimes it can be very hard to pick up on especially in dogs with high tolerance for pain.

I would also ask what else might have been happening around at the time you were doing stays? Are you talking group stays with lots of dogs, people correcting dogs for breaking etc. I have seen dogs drop in a sit stay because they are impacted by what is going on around them. Some dogs would react by breaking and coming to the handler others lie down and you can clearly see they just aren't comfortable in a particular situation.

Edited May 29, 2010 by ness

[Mas1981]

Sounds like it was possibly tiredness in this instance but if you try one when he is fresh and he is still struggling I wouldn't rule out soreness. Sometimes it can be very hard to pick up on especially in dogs with high tolerance for pain.

I would also ask what else might have been happening around at the time you were doing stays? Are you talking group stays with lots of dogs, people correcting dogs for breaking etc. I have seen dogs drop in a sit stay because they are impacted by what is going on around them. Some dogs would react by breaking and coming to the handler others lie down and you can clearly see they just aren't comfortable in a particular situation.

There were 4 of us, and the one other dog kept getting up during the sit stay, so maybe that was it.

[bedazzledx2]

My bolding. You answered your own question. Novice dogs are not up to this and it is actually very poor training. You need to keep your dog interested and in the game as much as you can so don't ever have your dog sitting or wandering around in a training session. When you have finished your bit put him away either in the car or in a crate in the shade until you are ready for him again. When you are ready to do stays get him out...have a little routine you go through...I do multiple hand touches to wake him up and be prepared to reward at random points in the stays....30 seconds....1 minute....20 seconds etc. Don't do the same time every stay....do some 2 minute stays, 4 minute and 30 second ones. Keep him guessing. I rarely do a down stay straight after a sit stay.

Any reason for him to be dropping i.e. soreness?

I'm not sure what type of training you do i.e. positive etc, the work I have done with my trainer in the past is about starting Sit Stays in small time increments and working up to longer ones and doing 3 ones where he wins and one where he fails....I don't train 100% positive, I use corrections with this specific dog so that may not be suitable for you.

I think he could have been hot and tired, we had a long session this morning where the trainer worked with us each for a short while and then we stood around watching, stays were done at the end and by this time he was just hot and bothered ( he gets hot in the sun even if its not warm as he is black) so maybe thats it. He normally stays really well but just today he wanted to lie down. He did slip and fall at the park yesterday but I have not noticed that he is sore at all.

[Mas1981]

My bolding. You answered your own question. Novice dogs are not up to this and it is actually very poor training. You need to keep your dog interested and in the game as much as you can so don't ever have your dog sitting or wandering around in a training session. When you have finished your bit put him away either in the car or in a crate in the shade until you are ready for him again. When you are ready to do stays get him out...have a little routine you go through...I do multiple hand touches to wake him up and be prepared to reward at random points in the stays....30 seconds....1 minute....20 seconds etc. Don't do the same time every stay....do some 2 minute stays, 4 minute and 30 second ones. Keep him guessing. I rarely do a down stay straight after a sit stay.

Any reason for him to be dropping i.e. soreness?

I'm not sure what type of training you do i.e. positive etc, the work I have done with my trainer in the past is about starting Sit Stays in small time increments and working up to longer ones and doing 3 ones where he wins and one where he fails....I don't train 100% positive, I use corrections with this specific dog so that may not be suitable for you.

I think he could have been hot and tired, we had a long session this morning where the trainer worked with us each for a short while and then we stood around watching, stays were done at the end and by this time he was just hot and bothered ( he gets hot in the sun even if its not warm as he is black) so maybe thats it. He normally stays really well but just today he wanted to lie down. He did slip and fall at the park yesterday but I have not noticed that he is sore at all.

It was impossible to put him back in the car as we each had a turn at each exercise, he would have been in the car for like 10 or 15 mins at a time and then it would have been our turn again.

[bedazzledx2]

I understand and it can be a problem in group classes. If he is crate trained then I would bring a crate to class and set it up a short distance away either in the shade or bring your own shade. If he is good and will relax on a tie out then you can do that as well. I'm sure the instructor won't mind if you run it by them before class starts. You may have to get there a bit earlier to organize it but to have a dog in class not paying attention for the better part of an hour is a recipe for boredom. I encourage people to bring their own crates or tie outs when I teach as there is a bit of downtime and I don't want them turning off. The purpose of classes is really to teach YOU how to teach your dog certain skills. You then need to take that information away with you and train your dog in the meantime. So you can put your dog away and re-join the class to get the information. I would never have a young dog in a class for a full hour and all my training is actually in 5 to 10 minute bursts of intensive training and then back in the car or crate. If you can organize it with your instructor I think you'll find classes a bit easier on both of you and he will be set up for success rather than failure.

My bolding. You answered your own question. Novice dogs are not up to this and it is actually very poor training. You need to keep your dog interested and in the game as much as you can so don't ever have your dog sitting or wandering around in a training session. When you have finished your bit put him away either in the car or in a crate in the shade until you are ready for him again. When you are ready to do stays get him out...have a little routine you go through...I do multiple hand touches to wake him up and be prepared to reward at random points in the stays....30 seconds....1 minute....20 seconds etc. Don't do the same time every stay....do some 2 minute stays, 4 minute and 30 second ones. Keep him guessing. I rarely do a down stay straight after a sit stay.

Any reason for him to be dropping i.e. soreness?

I'm not sure what type of training you do i.e. positive etc, the work I have done with my trainer in the past is about starting Sit Stays in small time increments and working up to longer ones and doing 3 ones where he wins and one where he fails....I don't train 100% positive, I use corrections with this specific dog so that may not be suitable for you.

I think he could have been hot and tired, we had a long session this morning where the trainer worked with us each for a short while and then we stood around watching, stays were done at the end and by this time he was just hot and bothered ( he gets hot in the sun even if its not warm as he is black) so maybe thats it. He normally stays really well but just today he wanted to lie down. He did slip and fall at the park yesterday but I have not noticed that he is sore at all.

It was impossible to put him back in the car as we each had a turn at each exercise, he would have been in the car for like 10 or 15 mins at a time and then it would have been our turn again.

[Tiggy]

The crate gives you a chance to have a break to. I haven't been using the crate at agility because I have to lug it such a long way but I'm thinking I'll start bringing it again because I get exhausted keeping Banjo occupied in between exercises.

[Mrs Rusty Bucket]

I'd been having a problem with my dog lying down during a sit stay and rolling over (dead dog) during a down stay.

The rolling over - was usually on hot days, she was just trying to cool off, so if I scooped a bucket of water over her beforehand, she was ok.

I have largely sorted the dropping during a sit stay by working on a nice stay before she gets her meal. I think the main problem was she didn't understand it is important to stay sitting.

So for dinner, I'd put her in a sit stay, and put the dinner down in front of her and then make her stay, start with short times. And when she achieves time - release for dinner. If she fails to achieve time, I shorten the subsequent time she needs to stay, to something a little bit less than she achieved before she broke, and then release for dinner. The idea is for her to get it right so she knows what right is. If you make her stay too long - is your mistake.

If she drops, I physically catch her or pick her up, and then repeat as if she got up and wandered off. Ie shorter stay and then release. I don't work on being far away (distance) until she's getting the time and pose right. But stuff she has to master in order to get dinner - seems to have a better retention for my dog.

Variety is good too. Different lengths of time, and I'm doing recalls as well. Ie a "wait", "recall", "remote drop", "recall", sit stay, down stay. And I get her to stay on her mat while I make dinner too. If she breaks that stay, I stop making dinner and reset her. Making dog dinner is slower if dog isn't doing what I ask. She is gradually getting that.

Making dog work for dinner, is part of Triangle of Temptation - find it and have a read.

[Mas1981]

I'd been having a problem with my dog lying down during a sit stay and rolling over (dead dog) during a down stay.

The rolling over - was usually on hot days, she was just trying to cool off, so if I scooped a bucket of water over her beforehand, she was ok.

I have largely sorted the dropping during a sit stay by working on a nice stay before she gets her meal. I think the main problem was she didn't understand it is important to stay sitting.

So for dinner, I'd put her in a sit stay, and put the dinner down in front of her and then make her stay, start with short times. And when she achieves time - release for dinner. If she fails to achieve time, I shorten the subsequent time she needs to stay, to something a little bit less than she achieved before she broke, and then release for dinner. The idea is for her to get it right so she knows what right is. If you make her stay too long - is your mistake.

If she drops, I physically catch her or pick her up, and then repeat as if she got up and wandered off. Ie shorter stay and then release. I don't work on being far away (distance) until she's getting the time and pose right. But stuff she has to master in order to get dinner - seems to have a better retention for my dog.

Variety is good too. Different lengths of time, and I'm doing recalls as well. Ie a "wait", "recall", "remote drop", "recall", sit stay, down stay. And I get her to stay on her mat while I make dinner too. If she breaks that stay, I stop making dinner and reset her. Making dog dinner is slower if dog isn't doing what I ask. She is gradually getting that.

Making dog work for dinner, is part of Triangle of Temptation - find it and have a read.

I always train my dog before dinner, he will do a sit stay with the food in front of him but when its not there than thats a problem. Someone suggested taking his food down to the park in a container, making him do a sit stay and if he doesnt break then giving him the whole dinner.