Grain Free Dog Food In Australia

[Shmurps]

Thanks PSA. Always interested in new foods. I use EP and Nutro and I find my dogs do really well on it.

[tyra2007]

I believe what a reseller has to say about processed dog foods about as much as I believe a Vet who sells the products - if they sell it, then it is in their best interest to promote it blindly to create profits for their business.

What about the fact that it is super heat treated? And the fact that ALL meat meal is obtained in a rendering process which destroys the goodness, adding in nutrients at another stage does not make that product better to feed than the real thing.

Yes people are going to get emotional about the way they feed their animals and yes feeding a well balanced BARF based diet requires a little more effort that just opening a packet and believing the hype. IMO the reason so many feed processed pet food is simply laziness. Which is why so many retaillers out there (including most vets) are easily able to con the consumer into buying overpriced, over processed rubbish food. I guess these people are also happy to eat rubbish human food too so it makes sense that they want to continue the laziness and feed their dogs crap. So does this make it good/better?? NOT just plain bone lazy!

No, I am not so blind as to believe "everything" I read on the internet - (I have studied the raw feeding thoroughly for over a decade and read thousands of pages on the internet to get the information I need. As well as books and speaking to others who have converted to BARF) The difference is I do not believe the "hype" from dog food producers websites as it is in their best interest to tell you the good not the bad.

Don't bother answering again PSA (No loss there) all you do is blindly quote the website verbatim - a monkey could find that information to post.

[Jaxx'sBuddy]

I believe what a reseller has to say about processed dog foods about as much as I believe a Vet who sells the products - if they sell it, then it is in their best interest to promote it blindly to create profits for their business.

What about the fact that it is super heat treated? And the fact that ALL meat meal is obtained in a rendering process which destroys the goodness, adding in nutrients at another stage does not make that product better to feed than the real thing.

Yes people are going to get emotional about the way they feed their animals and yes feeding a well balanced BARF based diet requires a little more effort that just opening a packet and believing the hype. IMO the reason so many feed processed pet food is simply laziness. Which is why so many retaillers out there (including most vets) are easily able to con the consumer into buying overpriced, over processed rubbish food. I guess these people are also happy to eat rubbish human food too so it makes sense that they want to continue the laziness and feed their dogs crap. So does this make it good/better?? NOT just plain bone lazy!

No, I am not so blind as to believe "everything" I read on the internet - (I have studied the raw feeding thoroughly for over a decade and read thousands of pages on the internet to get the information I need. As well as books and speaking to others who have converted to BARF) The difference is I do not believe the "hype" from dog food producers websites as it is in their best interest to tell you the good not the bad.

Don't bother answering again PSA (No loss there) all you do is blindly quote the website verbatim - a monkey could find that information to post.

well what if you have a dog that throws up when it eats raw food and bones...yes they do exist and yes i know of one. if they didnt eat kibble they would starve. my dog is fed on raw but for this other dog it doesnt work. that why i say feed your dog on what it does best on.

no one can say any one type of food works for all dogs

[tyra2007]

well what if you have a dog that throws up when it eats raw food and bones...yes they do exist and yes i know of one. if they didnt eat kibble they would starve. my dog is fed on raw but for this other dog it doesnt work. that why i say feed your dog on what it does best on.

no one can say any one type of food works for all dogs

It is the same with dogs that vomit up certain varieties of processed food, if they did that you would change brands right!

If a dog had issues with raw food you feed it, it is the same as allergies in humans and an elimination diet would be the best avenue to isolate which part of the diet wasn't suited to the dog. So you start simple and bring in different elements one at a time so that you know what is best for your dog.

By taking an easy way out and simply feeding processed I cannot see that being good at all. Would you feed a child that didn't like vegetables McDonalds for every meal? I don't think many would say yes to that one.

[Sagittarian]

Wow - I didn't think the title of this thread was - "dry v raw"!!!!!

Great to be passionate, but being nasty and personally offensive doesn't add to any argument.

Canidae, along with Eagle Pack and several others have grain free variaties, which are advertised as such, plus they have some which are not advertised as grain free.

PSA, can you clarify which Eagle Pack variety is grain free? Last time I read one of their brochures they specifically stated their view on grain free foods, and it wasn't pretty.

Good to hear that more options are here - to join such foods as Artemis and Earthborn Holistic.

Sags

(who has fed raw and fed dry and everything in between and so far hasn't poisoned a dog).

Edited May 30, 2010 by Sagittarian

[Shmurps]

Each to their own.

So to those who don't feed their dogs processed food, do you and your dogs only eat organic, free range foods? No tinned food, take away, treats, alcohol or anything that has ever been sprayed or gm?

[Jaxx'sBuddy]

well what if you have a dog that throws up when it eats raw food and bones...yes they do exist and yes i know of one. if they didnt eat kibble they would starve. my dog is fed on raw but for this other dog it doesnt work. that why i say feed your dog on what it does best on.

no one can say any one type of food works for all dogs

It is the same with dogs that vomit up certain varieties of processed food, if they did that you would change brands right!

If a dog had issues with raw food you feed it, it is the same as allergies in humans and an elimination diet would be the best avenue to isolate which part of the diet wasn't suited to the dog. So you start simple and bring in different elements one at a time so that you know what is best for your dog.

By taking an easy way out and simply feeding processed I cannot see that being good at all. Would you feed a child that didn't like vegetables McDonalds for every meal? I don't think many would say yes to that one.

i really dont need a lecture and i do think you come across as rude and patronising. all foods have been tried and NO raw is tolerated, no type of meat, not pig, not beef, not chicken, not lamb, not turkey, not duck, not roo, not rabbit....nothing

Edited May 30, 2010 by Jaxx'sBuddy

[stormie]

Tyra some dogs just can't tolerate raw food, no matter what it is. But hey, I work in a vet so we must be talking crap to get everyone to eat the food that we sell. Funny though, that we recommend a raw diet where possible and stock lots of different foods, from the Eagle Pack Holistic to that nasty Hills food. So no, not all vets just want to push that food they they stock, some, believe it or not, encourage people to find a food that works for them.

I get that you're passionate about raw food. And lucky for you that your dog can eat any type of raw. But spare a thought for those who can't.

I feed raw but I'm not a natzi about it. Except Orbit has allergies so we have to be careful about what snacks and stuff I give him. I guess my food isn't human grade. I know it comes from a human grade company though. But my dog is a dog, and the road kill rabbit he'd happily munch on isn't exactly human grade either so... There have been times where I've forgotten to get meat out to thaw the night before so in those cases I have opened a tin of Hills I/D as its turkey and rice which he can eat.

He also gets my left over veges and stuff here and there, which sometimes comes from the Organic markets, but other times the supermarket. Like I said, I'm not a massive natzi about it all - he gets cortisone for his allergies and other medications, so being worried about other things is kinda pointless for me.

[blacklabrador]

Hey all,

I was looking on the canidae website and came across this.

Is this true? I have always though that just plain 'meat' (e.g. chicken, lamb, beef etc.) on the packaging was preferable to 'meat meal' (e.g. chicken meal, lamb meal, beef meal etc.) Is what they say about 'meat meal' having higher levels of meat protein than 'meat' true?

Thanks,

Josh

It is 100% true, and part of the reason I would not argue the point to those that 'think' fresh meat is better. What they are really feeding there pet is mostly moisture, a large part of that being H20.

I have spent years dealing with aquaculture foods and the very best ingredient you can use for really adding protein is fish meal, it is a scientifically proven fact.

The commercial foods used for growing aqua-cultured Salmon and Trout, have extremely high levels of protein, this can only be provided by using fish and crustacea meal. The same is on offer for aquatic hobbyists who want high quality foods, although other ingredients such as the skin of shrimp and some fish are added to increase Omega fats and protein levels.

To put it in simple terms, you are dealing with a concentrate.

I could bore you with pages of data, but google will help you make your own mind up.

There is a place for Kibble, as there is for fresh foods, it really comes down to personal preference and what your pet likes or is happy with.

Personally I think a combination of kibble and fresh foods is the best option for feeding of my own pets, but as per above, personal preference is the key to this

I just wanted to comment on that:

There is so much more to food that a compilation of ingredients and nutrients. The form that the food takes is also very important. Cooking and dehydrating meat to make into kibble vastly changes the way it is handled during the digestive process. Food eaten the way that nature intended is the way that the body best deals with digestion to give the biggest benefits to the body. So "moisture" or not, fresh meaty bones are the way that nature intends for our carnivorous dogs to get their food. Whether people want to pay attention to that fact is a personal choice but it's an unavoidable fact.

[JulesP]

I just don't understand why people that think all kibble is crap jump on threads that are clearly about kibble. You don't feed kibble - good for you, leave people alone that do. Some very rude behavior demonstrated on here.

Thank you the OP for the heads up on this food.

[Danois]

Tyra2007 - Troy has previously posted this warning on the forum:

Respect another person's choice to feed their dog whatever they choose and move on. All you need to care about is what you feed your own dog.

So quit insulting other people's informed decisions to feed what works best for their dog.

[Jaxx'sBuddy]

Tyra2007 - Troy has previously posted this warning on the forum:

Respect another person's choice to feed their dog whatever they choose and move on. All you need to care about is what you feed your own dog.

So quit insulting other people's informed decisions to feed what works best for their dog.

[goldielover]

For those in S.E Melbourne, i noticed that Robbo's Petbarn in Dandenong Sth is stocking the Canidae - various formulas and sizes including larger bags

[~Anne~]

Is it really grains that are affecting our dogs though?

I don't believe it is.

I feed my cat and all my dogs a combination, including some kibble, and I find it suits them perfectly. Personally, I feel we will see far more health problems in the future, from a lack of proper nutrition, which will be directly attributable to the raw/barf push.

[Erny]

Tyra some dogs just can't tolerate raw food ...

I would be inclined to agree. I prefer the whole raw feeding regime. When I was a kid, that's all that was available as pre-prepared commercial dog food just wasn't heard of. (And no, that wasn't 100 years ago - I might be older than many of you, but not that old .) Table scraps (including vegies), raw meaty bones .... that was pretty much our dogs' staple diet (apart from their brown (bone shaped), green (fish shaped), red (heart shaped) and biege (can't remember that shape) dog biscuits and the other of the human treats we used to share with them, and they did very nicely on it.

These days I do seem to see more dogs with digestive issues; allergies; etc. Without going into the why's and wherefores, that just seems to be the facts and although it would do well to address the cause for those occurrences, the point is that those dogs need something they can eat, period. And if that happens to be a commercial food that contains all the necessary dietary requirements; is healthy for the absence of harmful processes such as irradiation; and is as holistic as one can get in a commerically prepared product, then that would have to be the product of choice. (I'm generalising here, because I am not familiar with Canidae food, so I'm not referring to them specifically.)

Just a question though, Stormie (or anyone else who knows). If a commercially prepared product comprises of all natural food, the only real difference being that the moisture is absent from it, why would and do some allergy dogs do better on that than they do on raw foods? IOW, what makes the commercial product so different that some dogs can eat it and not raw?

Edited May 30, 2010 by Erny

[Erny]

And PSA, may I please ask why is the "Canidae All Life Stages Formula" so much cheaper than the "Canidae Grain Free All Life Stages Formula"?

The former contains Flaxseed Meal and Cranberries.

The latter does not.

So why would the latter be 33% more expensive than the former?

Canidae All Life Stages Formula - Chicken, Turkey, Lamb and Fish Meals - Contains Flaxseed Meal and Cranberries

2.27kg - $29.95

6.8kg - $69.95

15.9kg - $104.95

20kg - $119.95

Canidae Grain Free All Life Stages Formula - Chicken, Turkey and Fish Meals with Fresh Lamb and 0% Grain Formulated for All Life Stages

2.27kg - $34.95

6.8kg - $79.95

13.6kg - $119.95

Edited May 30, 2010 by Erny

[stormie]

Erny - its not just allergies that are a problem. Some dogs have food intolerance issues too. Others have things like EPI, or inflammatory bowel disease.

As to why some cope better on commercial over raw, I can't be sure. Raw meat, whilst easily digested, I would say is overall quite rich and obviously bones in the diet mean more digestion needs to take place.

Many people believe that because the commercial diets have grains in them, they're not very digestible, but this isn't quite true. The part of the corn which is so indigestible is the main husk, but the meal inside is highly digestible. And grains like rice are also very digestible and easy on the stomach.

Interestingly, many dogs who don't tolerate raw meat, can cope very well if the meat is cooked, which again I put down to being not so rich?

Another thing I would add is that the dogs who have a more sensitive stomach, can often not do very well on the holistic diets, like Eagle Pack, which I wonder if its due to the complexity of the food - there's so much in it and it's also quite rich, where as something more commercial like Eukanuba, Advance etc, doesn't have as much meat and may not be so irritating to the stomach, being simpler, so they can do better on it.

But as to the whys of it all, I think it would come down to the individuals problem, whether they can't digest it properly, of the intestines are too inflamed to cope with bones etc etc...

[Erny]

Erny - its not just allergies that are a problem. Some dogs have food intolerance issues too. Others have things like EPI, or inflammatory bowel disease.

Yeah - I agree. That's why I mentioned "digestive problems" as well as allergies.

Thanks for the explanation of possibilities. I wonder if, for some dogs who can't tolerate commercial diets, it's the "meat meal" component that could be contributing. I always thought of "meat meal" as being the 'rubbish swept off the processing plant floor' so I appreciate the explanation in previous post. You learn something new every day, huh?

It is such a complex topic and yes, it is so individualistic.

[Staff'n'Toller]

Erny - its not just allergies that are a problem. Some dogs have food intolerance issues too. Others have things like EPI, or inflammatory bowel disease.

Yeah - I agree. That's why I mentioned "digestive problems" as well as allergies.

Thanks for the explanation of possibilities. I wonder if, for some dogs who can't tolerate commercial diets, it's the "meat meal" component that could be contributing. I always thought of "meat meal" as being the 'rubbish swept off the processing plant floor' so I appreciate the explanation in previous post. You learn something new every day, huh?

It is such a complex topic and yes, it is so individualistic.

By-product meal is the crap stuff (heads, feet, feathers etc.) to have chicken meal or lamb meal in the ingredients panel it must be identifiable as *meat* before processing. Meal is dried meat. So that's where you get the better quality protein- hence why super premium is more expensive.

[stormie]

The other thing I'm trying to find out at the moment, is how the actual ingredients list works. They say the ingredients are listed in order of weight, most to least. So that could mean two things.

For example, here are the first 5 ingredients in Euks Premium Performance:

Chicken, Chicken By-Product Meal, Corn Meal, Brewers Rice, Fish Meal.

So it could be that the ingredients are added in the following weights:

Chicken - 100g

Chicken By-Product Meal - 95g

Corn Meal - 90g

Brewers Rice - 85g

Fish Meal 80g.....

So whilst Chicken is technically the highest weight, out of the 450g total, chicken is only 100g worth, where as grain is 270g. So chicken really isn't the main ingredient as such.

Or, is it calculated that chicken is the main ingredient, in that if the mix weighs 500g, Chicken makes up over 250g of that??

Does anyone know for sure how it works? Google isn't helping but but I have a feeling it's the first example...