Is This A Puppy Farm?

[aussielover]

I have removed the link as requested so as to not give them advertising. Apoolgies if I offended anyone...

They want to get a "labradoodle" puppy from here. Of course, I tried to discourage them from getting a crossbred dog and educate them about puppy farms and ho there are 1000's of good crossbred dogs available in shelters/rescue group etc. I cited the advantages of a well bred purebred dog such as a poodle, lagotto, labrador, cocker etc but they are still adamant about getting cross bred "designer dog".

I had a quick look at the website of the so called "breeders", it appeared not as bad as some puppy farms, but still in my opinion a puppy farm as they clearly have many, many breeding dogs. They are also a "business" which is slightly concerning to me- sort of implies the aim is to make money only. They do health test their dogs for PRA, hip dysplasia and heart disease whcih is better than nothing I suppose. They allow visits to the pup and mother but only with appointments (could be slightly dodgy?). Their health guarantee seems quite generous- 2yrs for hereditary diseases and hip dysplasia but the only options are to return the pup (who would do that after having the pup for 2yrs???) and receive a new one or get a refund. They also have a decent section on things to consider before getting a puppy.

It does worry me that they ship overseas and the sheer volume of dogs they appear to have.

I'd like to hear the opinion of others though, as I showed the website to some of my friends and they didn't see anything wrong with it. So I don't know if its just me...

What do people think about the health testing and the health guarantees though? It sort of indicates some level of resposibility on the owners part. do you think they are lying about it?

Edited May 29, 2010 by aussielover

[gareth]

Yes that is a puppy farm. Please remove the link so as NOT to give them advertising.

[shmoo]

I'd call and ask a few questions, mainly:

what are they doing specifically to improve their lines?

are they doing the correct record keeping and are they aiming to register the breed officially?

how many litters do they have on the ground at one time on average?

where do they bitches and studs live and where are the pups raised?

[Jacquiboss&scoop]

They want to get a "labradoodle" puppy from here. Of course, I tried to discourage them from getting a crossbred dog and educate them about puppy farms and ho there are 1000's of good crossbred dogs available in shelters/rescue group etc. I cited the advantages of a well bred purebred dog such as a poodle, lagotto, labrador, cocker etc but they are still adamant about getting cross bred "designer dog".

I had a quick look at the website of the so called "breeders", it appeared not as bad as some puppy farms, but still in my opinion a puppy farm as they clearly have many, many breeding dogs. They are also a "business" which is slightly concerning to me- sort of implies the aim is to make money only. They do health test their dogs for PRA, hip dysplasia and heart disease whcih is better than nothing I suppose. They allow visits to the pup and mother but only with appointments (could be slightly dodgy?). Their health guarantee seems quite generous- 2yrs for hereditary diseases and hip dysplasia but the only options are to return the pup (who would do that after having the pup for 2yrs???) and receive a new one or get a refund. They also have a decent section on things to consider before getting a puppy.

It does worry me that they ship overseas and the sheer volume of dogs they appear to have.

I'd like to hear the opinion of others though, as I showed the website to some of my friends and they didn't see anything wrong with it. So I don't know if its just me...

Hi Aussie lover

Might be worth asking all the same questions that you would when buying any other puppy of known heritage , do the parents have health clearance for inherited conditions as we are talking poodles and labrador they have different issues so you would need at least eye certified clear hips scored within the tolerances for both poodles and lab and elbows done as well think there is a DNA marker test done with breeding poodles "am not 100% sure as not my breed ) , registered purebreeds have to have this done before breeding so this would be my min requirment for any other dog where both parents are known . General health history of parents and grandparents as well.

Best way to know if you would buy a dog from anywhere is to talk to visit and use your own gut feeling as to how healthy and well adjusted your pet may be should you buy from there .

I would suggest to the friend that should they wish to buy they should require the same testing as for a pure puppy as they appear to be paying pet purebreed price.

As to the ethics and standards of the business in question this is clearly a business but the only way to know if it reflects what you consider good animal husbandry or not is to visit , in saying that it is not unusual for breeders to request visits by appointment only we all have times where visitors are not appropriate for lots of reasons and most kennels are attached to a persons home so do drop in is not encouraged.

I am not a supporter of designer doggies a mut is a mut I have 2 one from the AWL and one was a dumped pup both are very nice dogs, I am a little suprised at the claim of no shed on all their pups one of the reasons that they did not continue to breed them was that the coat was not predictable even after I think 5 generations , so are they culling the incorrect coat types ? is a question that I would like to ask , if not what do they do with them ? as the variation in coat is very high.

Most breeders breed for the next in the chain of a planned outcome , break even is a hope profit is unusual, most breeders would like to register as a business but the ATO takes a dim view of business that loses money 4 years out of five LOL

good luck but if people are determined then the best you can do is arm them with as much info and warning signs as you can

cheers

Edited May 29, 2010 by Schmoo's boss

[Jaxx'sBuddy]

They want to get a "labradoodle" puppy from here. Of course, I tried to discourage them from getting a crossbred dog and educate them about puppy farms and ho there are 1000's of good crossbred dogs available in shelters/rescue group etc. I cited the advantages of a well bred purebred dog such as a poodle, lagotto, labrador, cocker etc but they are still adamant about getting cross bred "designer dog".

I had a quick look at the website of the so called "breeders", it appeared not as bad as some puppy farms, but still in my opinion a puppy farm as they clearly have many, many breeding dogs. They are also a "business" which is slightly concerning to me- sort of implies the aim is to make money only. They do health test their dogs for PRA, hip dysplasia and heart disease whcih is better than nothing I suppose. They allow visits to the pup and mother but only with appointments (could be slightly dodgy?). Their health guarantee seems quite generous- 2yrs for hereditary diseases and hip dysplasia but the only options are to return the pup (who would do that after having the pup for 2yrs???) and receive a new one or get a refund. They also have a decent section on things to consider before getting a puppy.

It does worry me that they ship overseas and the sheer volume of dogs they appear to have.

I'd like to hear the opinion of others though, as I showed the website to some of my friends and they didn't see anything wrong with it. So I don't know if its just me...

Hi Aussie lover

Might be worth asking all the same questions that you would when buying any other puppy of known heritage , do the parents have health clearance for inherited conditions as we are talking poodles and labrador they have different issues so you would need at least eye certified clear hips scored within the tolerances for both poodles and lab and elbows done as well think there is a DNA marker test done with breeding poodles "am not 100% sure as not my breed ) , registered purebreeds have to have this done before breeding so this would be my min requirment for any other dog where both parents are known . General health history of parents and grandparents as well.

Best way to know if you would buy a dog from anywhere is to talk to visit and use your own gut feeling as to how healthy and well adjusted your pet may be should you buy from there .

I would suggest to the friend that should they wish to buy they should require the same testing as for a pure puppy as they appear to be paying pet purebreed price.

As to the ethics and standards of the business in question this is clearly a business but the only way to know if it reflects what you consider good animal husbandry or not is to visit , in saying that it is not unusual for breeders to request visits by appointment only we all have times where visitors are not appropriate for lots of reasons and most kennels are attached to a persons home so do drop in is not encouraged.

I am not a supporter of designer doggies a mut is a mut I have 2 one from the AWL and one was a dumped pup both are very nice dogs, I am a little suprised at the claim of no shed on all their pups one of the reasons that they did not continue to breed them was that the coat was not predictable even after I think 5 generations , so are they culling the incorrect coat types ? is a question that I would like to ask , if not what do they do with them ? as the variation in coat is very high.

Most breeders breed for the next in the chain of a planned outcome , break even is a hope profit is unusual, most breeders would like to register as a business but the ATO takes a dim view of business that loses money 4 years out of five LOL

good luck but if people are determined then the best you can do is arm them with as much info and warning signs as you can

cheers

please remove their link from your post also as it is not allowed to be on here

[mr.mister]

Suggest they go have a look at a rescue, they have scores of DD's, at a fraction of the price.

[Cosmolo]

Its funny you should post this as i was just talking to someone today who purchased a puppy from somewhere who desex, microchip and vaccinate before rehoming, offer a 3 year health guarantee and pups are raised in the house for the first 6 weeks, amongst other things. I have met about 30 puppies from this place- all of whom have been nice dogs with reponsible owners. This raises ethical dilemmas for me- are they a puppy farm? Are there dogs of theirs ending up in shelters etc? So many questions!

[tdierikx]

We have a very cute poodle/schnauzer boy and a nice little poodle/shihtzu boy at our rescue - both are young adults, but very sweet young fellows..

T.

[Christina]

I don't know but there is nothing you can do. You have tried. They know & they want this.

So utterly bloody frustrating isn't it. Even people who know better 100% still buy from pet shops & other dodgy places.

If they want their labradoodle they will have it.

[Black Bronson]

The problem with "designer breedings" is that too many of the general public are recognising these oodles as a proper breed and some of the farmers of these cross breedings supply their own pedigree papers. I know someone with two Golden Retriever Standard Poodle cross's from the same farmer and the dogs look nothing alike. There is no standard in terms of appearance and structure of the dogs which are ultimately just a mutt. But the owners think they are special and paid $1500 each for them and are convinced they are a proper breed. Even their vet has them recorded as Groodle's.......a vet practice should know better than that to encourage something that is not real and doesn't help the situation. Oodles are cross breeds and the sooner people realise this the better.

Whlist people remain willing to pay rediculous prices for a mutt, the farmers will continue to pump them out.

Edited May 29, 2010 by Black Bronson

[stormie]

hehehe one of the first things I did when we took over our clinic was to go through the computer system and remove all the designer dog names and replace them with what they really are. Not sure how impressed the clients are when their reminders etc say Poodle X Lab but meh, not my problem!

[fifi]

hehehe one of the first things I did when we took over our clinic was to go through the computer system and remove all the designer dog names and replace them with what they really are. Not sure how impressed the clients are when their reminders etc say Poodle X Lab but meh, not my problem!

All of us at our clinic won't use the drop down menu options if its a oodle thing !!

all three of us will type in the oodle X floodle,

It really annoys me that all the major practice software has the designer dog names on the dropdown menus

fifi

[stormie]

hehehe one of the first things I did when we took over our clinic was to go through the computer system and remove all the designer dog names and replace them with what they really are. Not sure how impressed the clients are when their reminders etc say Poodle X Lab but meh, not my problem!

All of us at our clinic won't use the drop down menu options if its a oodle thing !!

all three of us will type in the oodle X floodle,

It really annoys me that all the major practice software has the designer dog names on the dropdown menus

fifi

I just assumed it had been added in there by past staff and wasn't installed, cause any time we add a new breed it asks us if we want to add it to the main list. And we have the ability to completely delete breeds from the menu. Which is helpful when staff think someone is coming in with an English Taffy

[Black Bronson]

hehehe one of the first things I did when we took over our clinic was to go through the computer system and remove all the designer dog names and replace them with what they really are. Not sure how impressed the clients are when their reminders etc say Poodle X Lab but meh, not my problem!

I would do exactly the same thing Stormie In fact, if I come across people with these dogs in conversation, I can't help but to ask what they mean..........something "oodle"..........what's that???, you mean a cross breed Some I have spoken with are actually proud of the high price they paid for them, confirming how "special" the breeding is supposed to be

[Black Bronson]

hehehe one of the first things I did when we took over our clinic was to go through the computer system and remove all the designer dog names and replace them with what they really are. Not sure how impressed the clients are when their reminders etc say Poodle X Lab but meh, not my problem!

All of us at our clinic won't use the drop down menu options if its a oodle thing !!

all three of us will type in the oodle X floodle,

It really annoys me that all the major practice software has the designer dog names on the dropdown menus

fifi

That's bloody wrong and much of the cause for people to think the breedings are legitimate breeds which only serves to encourage the puppy farmers to breed and charge rediculous prices for them. The only way to stop them IMHO is a law to prevent dog breeding unless licenced which accomodates only pure breed dogs.

[stormie]

but BB, we have to cater for the consumer remember

[fifi]

hehehe one of the first things I did when we took over our clinic was to go through the computer system and remove all the designer dog names and replace them with what they really are. Not sure how impressed the clients are when their reminders etc say Poodle X Lab but meh, not my problem!

All of us at our clinic won't use the drop down menu options if its a oodle thing !!

all three of us will type in the oodle X floodle,

It really annoys me that all the major practice software has the designer dog names on the dropdown menus

fifi

I just assumed it had been added in there by past staff and wasn't installed, cause any time we add a new breed it asks us if we want to add it to the main list. And we have the ability to completely delete breeds from the menu. Which is helpful when staff think someone is coming in with an English Taffy

I know Rx works & Ciderhouse has them pre-programmed in

We use CHS and its much easier to edit, so I've gone through and deleted all the DD's in the menu

fifi

[fifi]

but BB, we have to cater for the consumer remember

Priceless !!!

fifi

[aussielover]

Thanks everyone for your comments. It is good to know I am not the only one to think these designer breeds and the places that produce them are dodgy.

Regarding vet practices, I know of vets that actively recommend designer breeds as they are "healthier" (what a load of BS!!!!) Just the other day i saw an article where chris brown (Bondi vet) recommended a family to get a cav x poodle or spaniel x poodle. The majority of DD that we see have some kind of skin or ear problem. Whilst they are lovely dogs, they have all seemed to be hyper and lacking in sense (perhaps that's just the influence of the owner).

I have told these people I think the breeder is running a puppy farm but they disagree, they were impressed by the website, and think I am just being a purebred snob. They don't want a pound dog unfortunately, they want a baby puppy.

[Black Bronson]

but BB, we have to cater for the consumer remember

Absolutely , The lack of catering for the consumer in pure breeds is what drives them to the oodle and BYB farmers.