Leaving Puppy (and Then Dog) Alone In Yard When At Work

[koalathebear]

I am feeling very upset/frustrated ...

We think that we're pretty good puppy parents - or at least trying to be. We've got Elbie crate-trained and house-trained, he's stopped biting, he's a very loving and affectionate little puppy. He's clearly very clever - you can see here that even before attending obedience classes, he has been a very receptive learner from youtube videos!

We've been able to spend a LOT of time with him because we're both temporarily off work. That being said, that was just luck on our part and this is reality so we're going to have to go back to full-time work soon. He's 14 weeks now, he seems pretty good in the backyard (which we have puppy-proofed) and to try to get a better idea of what he does when we're at work, we have been monitoring him on a web cam for the trial periods that we are leaving him at home in the yard.

We will be switching him to two meals a day soon as we can't come home at lunch to feed him. This means he's going to be alone at least 8 hours in the backyard while we're at work. We'll give him two walks a day, we'll play with him but we do both have to work. Growing up - this was normal. Dogs were dogs and most dogs I knew hung out in the backyard even if they were allowed in the house. As I grew older, more and more people chose to keep their dogs inside for part of the time but most people I knew still kept their dogs in the yard unless they were lap dogs.

Although Elbie does sleep through the night in his crate, he will be in the yard when we're away and in the house when we're home. Sometimes if we're just heading out for short trips, then we'll crate him for a maximum of 2-3 hours - but even with a larger crate, given that he's kelpie/bc, I really think it's better for him to be in the yard then crated.

I'm a member of a US dog community on discussion forum and when I first mentioned even considering leaving Elbie in the backyard unattended, I received a LOT of criticism. Fortunately I found this thread here at DOL that made me realise that at least in Australia, it's still not unusual/uncommon to leave your dog alone in the yard if it's puppy-proofed.

So far, we've only left him in the yard for 4 hours unattended but when we are working our way back up to 8-9 hours in preparation for work. There just aren't other options - we can't come home at lunch to release him from his crate for an hour and we don't want to get other people to do have to come and do it for us. Elbie's our responsibility and we want him to get used to our lifestyle. When people on the other forum heard that we were intending to leave Elbie alone, these are the comments we received:

I really don't think it's a good idea to leave any dog (let alone such a baby puppy) alone outside, especially while you are away from the house. As you have already discovered, you really can't tell what he's doing out there, and may think he's peed when he hasn't. A pup this age is not ready to be alone, and at 10 weeks is vulnerable to forming bad habits and having negative experiences that will affect him for the rest of his life. Many of the nuisance behaviors that people struggle with (digging holes, escaping the yard, barking at neighbors, chasing cars and/or animals, and more) develop when young dogs are left alone outside to entertain themselves. Think about the things that could go wrong while you are away ... he could get stuck somewhere unusual, he could eat something he shouldn't, he could be harassed by passing strangers (hate to say it, but teens getting off the bus after school are sometimes just awful!), he could be barked at by a passing dog and scared, wild animals could come into your yard (think skunks etc.) ... the list goes on. The safe place for a puppy when you are busy or are out of the house is inside, in a crate.

and

FWIW I agree with the others about the issue of leaving him outside unsupervised at 10 wks. That would be like leaving a 4 year old child outside unsupervised for the same amount of time IMO. But that being said, I don't leave my dogs outside in their fenced area unsupervised for longer than it takes for me to run in and go to the bathroom. My dogs are 3 and 4 years old.

and

I really, really don't recommend leaving him alone that long in the yard. There's just so much that could go wrong - he could piss off a neighbor, a dog or other animal could come in and injure him, he could figure out how to dig under/through the fence, he could be stolen (especially if he even LOOKS possibly purebred). Just because he's behaving well now doesn't mean that after two months of this every single day he won't get incredibly bored one day and spend hours on end barking or try to escape. It's really not worth the risk if there's any possible way to leave him indoors (either crated or not).

and

IA. Dogs should not be left to their own (and everyone else's!) devices outdoors. Bad, bad, bad news. :D

and

Leaving him in the yard for that long a period of time could be dangerous. If he doesn't get hurt or loose, someone might come in and steal him. If I may make a suggestion, perhaps leave him in a crate or secured room while you're away and hire someone or ask a friend to stop in at a specified time to bring him for a short walk so he can go to the bathroom and stretch his legs.

and

I agree with everyone above: please do not leave your dog unattended in the backyard. So many things can go wrong. I've personally witnessed a couple of horrific disasters from dogs being left in the backyard alone. One broke his 2 front legs and walked on the broken legs to the back of the yard to lay under a tree. Which meant by the time he was found, both broken bones were sticking out clear through the skin. He survived, but I will never, ever leave a dog outside unattended again.

What blows my mind is that they're not even just talking about puppies - they are talking about DOGS - even when they're fully grown. I realise that all sorts of bad things can happen when a dog's left alone but my view is that for every scenario and situation, someone has a horror story. There is no perfect way to raise a dog. All we can do is try to create a safe environment in the backyard so that when we're not around, Elbie can sun himself, run around in the open air and roll in the grass as he pleases.

Did anyone else get condemned when they started to leave puppy alone in the yard when going to work? The thing is friends and family who are OFFline think that we're babying/spoiling Elbie and keep reminding us that he's a dog and a working dog at that We didn't make the decision to get a puppy lightly - we did consider time and financial constraints. We have been trying to make sure we're at home with Elbie during the formative months but I don't think that being a dog owner means that you crate your dog all day, make sure that you have a job that allows you to come home at lunchtime or give up your job altogether ...

Edited May 28, 2010 by koalathebear

[wuffles]

As a dog owner who posts on internet forums and talks to other people about their dogs... you have to have tough skin :D

Take all the advice you receive into consideration, but he's YOUR puppy and YOU have to live with your decisions.

Ours are both outside all day while we're at work, Ava has been out there since she was 13 weeks old. I don't feel guilty, this is what works for us, and our dogs are happy and well-adjusted.

[koalathebear]

As a dog owner who posts on internet forums and talks to other people about their dogs... you have to have tough skin :D Take all the advice you receive into consideration, but he's YOUR puppy and YOU have to live with your decisions.

Heh heh. You're right. It's just that there's no absolutely right way to do it and some people seem to think that they have all the answers to raising the perfect dog and if you deviate from their way, then you are WRONG.

[Zug Zug]

Mine too.

Try to make the change gradually if you can, and get your puppy used to gradually longer periods of time without you. Don't make a big fuss when you leave or when you get home, but make sure the puppy's life is full of learning opportunities and stimulation after hours and on weekends.

Most dogs adapt very well.

[alpha bet]

Many many many dogs are left home alone while people go to work, dinner, bed whatever. Yes even people on DOL leave their dogs home alone. Some might even put their dog in a pen and leave them there for 8-10 hours - but they are still without human company or supervision thus quite capabable of developing bad habits such as barking constantly or chewing themselves.

Some people make the effort to set things up for the dog - others don't.

The thing is you cant be expected to raise your dog to please other people - if you do then just go get a hammer and hit yourself on the head a few times.

Raise your dog the way you feel best.

[Sandra777]

If your yard is secure (and I mean SECURE) and the dog has shelter I don't have an issue if you are comfortable doing it. I would never do it myself and my dogs are LOCKED in walk-in kennels. This is because they are a breed which is prone to doing insane things if they decide to try and get out and which are targets for thieves.

Thousands of dogs are left alone in backyards every day and come to no harm. If you said you were going to leave him crated inside all day you would have received the same number of stories about the terrible things which have happened to dogs left crated inside.

[kyliegirl]

the thing I noticed with US dog communities is they seem to have the idea that everything needs to be babied and that an animal is incapable of taking care of itself. The comments I received about leaving a dobermann home alone in a dog run during work hours was that I shouldn't get a dog if I cant spend 24 hours with it, apparently to them a dobermann cannot live without a human. However after discussing with breeders and dol members in aus, the dobermann can live as happily as any other dog who is left alone when their owners go to work.

Many breeds, today and in the past were left outside and with proper preparation, training and care they can live a balanced life inside and outside. Most dogs left alone outside when their masters go to work opt to sleep most of the day and then are very energetic when they return home.

The truth is, a dog who has people around 24/7 can sometimes receive less attention than a dog who is left home alone during work hours. It really boils down to how much time you will devote to the dog when you are with them.

edit: From what I have seen so far with your youtube videos, you have made an excellent effort in ensuring your puppy is comfortable and safe when home alone and at the same time the ability to know if your puppy changes its behaviour when home alone.

Edited May 29, 2010 by kyliegirl

[koalathebear]

the thing I noticed with US dog communities is they seem to have the idea that everything needs to be babied and that an animal is incapable of taking care of itself. The comments I received about leaving a dobermann home alone in a dog run during work hours was that I shouldn't get a dog if I cant spend 24 hours with it, apparently to them a dobermann cannot live without a human. However after discussing with breeders and dol members in aus, the dobermann can live as happily as any other dog who is left alone when their owners go to work.

Many breeds, today and in the past were left outside and with proper preparation, training and care they can live a balanced life inside and outside. Most dogs left alone outside when their masters go to work opt to sleep most of the day and then are very energetic when they return home.

Thank you - the differences in viewpoints are s exactly what I've noticed as well. DOL members love their dogs just as much as the US forum posts and yet many are still able to take a pretty robust view of dog care. I know I have to develop a thicker skin but it's just that trying to raise a well-adjusted puppy is already hard work and sometimes it feels like EVERYONE is criticising your approach with the dog - too strict/too soft/too whatever ... While I understand that a very young puppy should always be supervised - I'm baffled at the thought that the dog is supposed to be supervised ALL the time even when it's not a puppy anymore.

Our view is that a kelpie/bc isn't supposed to be a pampered lap dog - we are giving him heaps of love and attention but we need him to learn how to spend hours away from us without imploding for his own benefit as well as ours. We're pretty happy with his progress because while he honks and whines a bit when we leave, he's always very settled when we return and not overly manic and hyper even though he's clearly happy to see us again. We've been trying to keep departures and arrivals pretty low key and make sure he gets lots of together time when we're home. Kelpies aren't normally supposed to be so affectionate, but Elbie's a bit of a sook

Edited May 29, 2010 by koalathebear

[furballs]

You obviously really love your pup and want to do the best thing. My opinion is that if the dog/pup enjoys being outside during the day while you're working, then leave it outside. If it really doesn't like being outside, leave it in. Dogs like to sniff different smells in the air and hear different sounds, which they can't do if they're cooped up inside all day. I keep pups inside the house until they're about 5 months old because I'm concerned about them being stolen or hurt by some idiot jumping the fence. At the end of the day, it should be about what makes the dog happy, not the owner's opinion of what is best.

BTW, that is such a cute puppy you have

Edited May 29, 2010 by furballs

[aussielover]

You seem very responsible to me. I like the idea of monitoring with a webcam! If the puppy is eventually to be left outside for any period of time, it is probably best to get him used to it now, for shorter periods.

It is ridiculous to think that anyone can monitor a dog 24/7 and I would say that anyone who does this is neurotic.

Good luck with your puppy, you sound like you are doing a great job with him and he is very cute btw!

PS it sounds like some of those people who commented on the other forum have an anxiety disorder or something....

I mean seriously, NEVER leave your dog unattended in the backyard? what the hell? If they are unattended in the house, there are still risks, just as great IMO. do they follow their dog around all day and night? must be very tired people

Edited May 29, 2010 by aussielover

[corvus]

Someone on a US board pointed out to me that it's not like Australia over there and claimed that yards aren't safe from thieves and that puppies get stolen. I had my older dog in the yard in a pen for a while. I was nervous about giving him the full run of the yard just because puppies can get themselves stuck places and that kind of thing.

[tez]

My first dog had free access to the backyard and the house via a doggy door from day 1 at 8 weeks old. Sure there was some minor collateral damage but she is a happy well adjusted dog who was able to enjoy a safe secue yard with trees, grass, bushes and well penned chooks who she has never harrassed but does enjoy wandering over to watch through the wire.

Now we have our second dog and he enjoys the same freedom. They now get to zoom around the backyard and relax together and I have to say that relaxing is what they do MOST OF THE TIME!

Watching my two, I don't believe dogs dig because they are bored. They dig because its a hell of a lot of fun. Its great exercise and the ground is a wonderful treasure trove of smells and sensations for a young dog!

Each to their own of course and I know alot of people are more house proud than me but I'm happier knowing my dogs have a variety of choices when I have to leave them while I'm at work. Even though they are 15 months and 16 weeks respectively I know that for the most part, they are snoozing either outside or on the lounge!

[cowanbree]

Personally I wouldn't leave such a young puppy loose in the yard either and also wouldn't have him down to 2 meals at such a young age. If he was mine he would have a safe kennel and run and be only 3 meals for at least another 4-6weeks. You can still do 3 meals and work quite easily without coming home for lunch.

Mind you I also don't think crating dogs for such long periods of time is a good idea either

[koalathebear]

Personally I wouldn't leave such a young puppy loose in the yard either and also wouldn't have him down to 2 meals at such a young age. If he was mine he would have a safe kennel and run and be only 3 meals for at least another 4-6weeks. You can still do 3 meals and work quite easily without coming home for lunch.

Mind you I also don't think crating dogs for such long periods of time is a good idea either

Well he's on three meals right now and he's not going to be left alone and on two meals for another couple of months or so - but the US forum seem to think that it's never ok to leave a dog alone in the yard regardless of age

And if I'm feeling annoyed and defensive right now it's because I can't help wondering why rabid dog owners attack people like us for the way we look after our puppy just because it's not the way they would do it - why not reserve their ire for people who mistreat their dogs or dump them? *shrug* In its own way, over-spoiling your dog is form of cruelty.

Edited May 29, 2010 by koalathebear

[sas]

Some doggie people are crazy cautious and a wee bit just generally crazy LOL

Your dog is fine in your back yard as is your puppy if you do all the common sense things other crazy dog owners may think you're incapable of doing LOL Such as:

1) Making sure your Pup/Dog can not get out of the yard

2) Making sure your Pup/Dog can't get into things you don't want them to get into

3) Be prepared to not have a tante when you come home to find they may have wrecked every garden bed you have as a source of fun for them LOL

4) Be prepared to not have a tante when you come home to find they have chewed on your outdoor dinning set or anything else plastic or wood LOL

5) Making sure you have given your pup/dog alone time everyday outside whilst you're home so they get used to being outside alone

6) Letting your neighbours know what the situation is so they can give you feedback on noise levels and give you some time to work it out

2 meals a day is fine for most pups, they start to refuse one of their meals soon enough anyhow, if you really feel you need to give a lunch meal as per the Breeders reccomendation then use a timmer meal device.

In regards to leaving a puppy with an adult, I can't do that because I have Danes and as strange as it sounds Dane puppies are extremely fragile so they are put in a dog run whilst I'm at work.

Also you may want to consider if a pup may just harass the adult dog whenever its' awake etc.

You'll find that pups do generally sleep most of the day anyhow.

Crating is not intended for long term use all day....that's not going to help toilet training at all, a young pup is active and a crate is only going to provide pent up energy.

but the US forum seem to think that it's never ok to leave a dog alone in the yard regardless of age

Those Crazy Americans

Edited May 29, 2010 by sas

[TangerineDream]

My dogs have always been left outside during the day, mostly in a secure dogrun (mainly for my peace of mind for the garden or to keep 2 dogs separate while I wasn't home)...my GSP is left in the dogrun while I work - and I have to be away from home for 13 hours a day...both he and my previous dog have survived fine so long as they have a protected area, a warm box and lots of water....and that was from the age of 14 weeks....Tango always hase and still does at the age of 4.5 years get 2 breakfasts and dinner (5.10am, 5.50am and after I get home).

Just make sure that the yard or run is secure and puppy proof and maybe if you have a friendly neighbour they could keep an eye out during the day.

You should be fine......

[Sydoo]

One of our family dogs (a desexed adult labrador) was taken from our yard when I was a teenager. It was devastating, but our other dogs continued to live outside and my puppy will soon be transitioning to outside all day while we are away. I have taken some precautions - we added fencing so she cannot get close to/be seen from our street frontage and we will have locks on our external gates. If I lived somewhere that dog theft was a problem or had a 'high value' dog (high value to lowlives that take animals; my doglet is priceless to me), we would take different precautions. You can only do what you think is right - I personally don't feel it is neglectful to have a puppy Elbie's age outside in a suitable yard.

[koalathebear]

If you said you were going to leave him crated inside all day you would have received the same number of stories about the terrible things which have happened to dogs left crated inside

That's true! If you look up dog, crate escape on youtube, under the comments that say 'oh so funny', you get just as many comments that condemn the owner for being cruel and putting their dog in a cage ...

[Kavik]

Mine are outside in the yard during the day, no problems

I have 6ft colourbond fences, which cannot be opened from the outside.

[joanne76]

I had a laugh over one of the US comments that said " I leave my dogs in there pen outside only for as long as it takes me to use the toilet"!!!!! hahahahah you really have to laugh.

My dogs have always spent the time we are at work in our back yard. Its nothing at all like "leaving a 4 year old human unsupervised".... so long as your yard is safe for your pup there is no reason why she wont be ok.

I find as they get older they dont want to go outside when its time to go to work. My old Golden Retriever refused to go out on cold mornings so he was allowed to stay in and the same in the middle of summer I would keep him in with the a/c running for him. I now have an ageing malt x and she wont go outside if its too warm/cold/wet. I let them choose but on the whole I think its better for themt o be outside in the fresh air, chasing flies and each other.