Ruptured Cruciate

[jodi_adam]

has anyone on here had a dog rupture a cruciate and successfully treated it with out surgery? names of dog rehab would be helpful???

A FEW FACTS ABOUT PORSCHA BEFORE YOU ANSWER;

porscha is my loyal 2year old female 22kg staffy who decided to jump her 6ft pen about a month ago wanting to chase another dog walking past the front of our house, porscha often plays ruff with her best friend a amstaff and sometimes she ends up with a few scratches and bumps and the occasional limp which resolves its self by the end of the day, well anyways she continued to play and act like her normal happy self for the next 1.5 days and I just got sick of looking at her limp. when I took her to the vets she had xrays done this is what it said on the recept: prob bilateral cruciate: unable to get draw but xrays indicate of r cruciate.. Ok well she has had four weeks of cartrophen and she is starting another round .

Now for the stuff I feel bad about I have been told that the surgery will cost $4000- this is not a option as I can not find that anywhere plus the i do not think I can contain her through out the recovery the vet said that one wrong move from a dog of this breed could end in devastation, at the moment she is in a porta cot in my lounge room and every time I get up eg toilet or chase my 2 nearly 3year old son she gets up too, I bought a little pen for outside in the daytime and she pulled the metal bars off to get out I even carry her outside to the toilet and the moment I put her on the ground she wants to play with me

I guess what I am asking is, has any one seen or heard of a miracle happen with out surgery?

[kezzzza]

My pug did his c/l by jumping onto my bed. He got over it without surgery. I cant remember what the vet gave me but I know it was not what you used. It started with a "M". He was given it again later in his life for a swallen foot.

sorry this is not much help.

Kerry

[aussielover]

With proper rest, physio and weight loss (if dog is overweight), there can be an improvement in the condition of the dog. However, it is unlikely you will ever get 100% recovery and you will always have to be careful with watching how the dog is exercising and playing.

I am slightly confused by the vet report- did they say whether it was a partial tear or rupture? if your dog has ruptured both cruciates, it would be walking with a lot of difficulty. In this case, you should proably seriously consider surgery.

If you are not going ahead with surgery (which is understandable if you simply can't afford it) I would recommend that you restrict the dog from exercising for at least one week, preferably longer. That means no running or jumping at all. You may want to contact a dog physio who may be able to suggest some gentle exercsises. If the dog is overweight, put the dog on a diet, this alone often will result in a great improvement.

I have friends whose dog has a partial tear of one cruciate, they decided not to do surgery. The dog was limping quite badly but after some rest (unfortunately the dog has not lost weight) the limping has decreased and the dog can walk around quite normally.

[jodi_adam]

With proper rest, physio and weight loss (if dog is overweight), there can be an improvement in the condition of the dog. However, it is unlikely you will ever get 100% recovery and you will always have to be careful with watching how the dog is exercising and playing.

I am slightly confused by the vet report- did they say whether it was a partial tear or rupture? if your dog has ruptured both cruciates, it would be walking with a lot of difficulty. In this case, you should proably seriously consider surgery.

If you are not going ahead with surgery (which is understandable if you simply can't afford it) I would recommend that you restrict the dog from exercising for at least one week, preferably longer. That means no running or jumping at all. You may want to contact a dog physio who may be able to suggest some gentle exercsises. If the dog is overweight, put the dog on a diet, this alone often will result in a great improvement.

I have friends whose dog has a partial tear of one cruciate, they decided not to do surgery. The dog was limping quite badly but after some rest (unfortunately the dog has not lost weight) the limping has decreased and the dog can walk around quite normally.

the vet doesn't know as the xray shows mostley intact and some swelling?? i get really upset when i talk to the vets about porscha that i don't seem to take muck in, but it was first the right leg then followed but a panic visit when she had problems with the left leg but i think she may have just bumped it as it was better within a day.

[jodi_adam]

With proper rest, physio and weight loss (if dog is overweight), there can be an improvement in the condition of the dog. However, it is unlikely you will ever get 100% recovery and you will always have to be careful with watching how the dog is exercising and playing.

I am slightly confused by the vet report- did they say whether it was a partial tear or rupture? if your dog has ruptured both cruciates, it would be walking with a lot of difficulty. In this case, you should proably seriously consider surgery.

If you are not going ahead with surgery (which is understandable if you simply can't afford it) I would recommend that you restrict the dog from exercising for at least one week, preferably longer. That means no running or jumping at all. You may want to contact a dog physio who may be able to suggest some gentle exercsises. If the dog is overweight, put the dog on a diet, this alone often will result in a great improvement.

I have friends whose dog has a partial tear of one cruciate, they decided not to do surgery. The dog was limping quite badly but after some rest (unfortunately the dog has not lost weight) the limping has decreased and the dog can walk around quite normally.

the vet doesn't know as the xray shows mostley intact and some swelling?? i get really upset when i talk to the vets about porscha that i don't seem to take muck in, but it was first the right leg then followed but a panic visit when she had problems with the left leg but i think she may have just bumped it as it was better within a day.

i must also add that as of wednesday she can walk great with no limp for around 5mins or so then she gets tired and the limp starts again

[stormie]

just so you know, you can't see ligaments on xrays

[stormie]

what area are you at? see i love my vets they have always been understanding and they don't just treat my animals like just another $ i have heard so many bad stories about vets, i guess thats why i haven't changed and i have brang all my friends and family to these vets as well.

i heard that the old school surgery is better for the smaller dogs like the malts and poms but not so good for the bigger ones? what did you have to do to get your retriever up and walking? im having a real hard time keeping her still, she is still very much a puppy in the head.

We just rested her and she eventually came good. But this was before I was nursing and if I knew what I knew now, I'd probably have had her operated on because I don't think it was fair for her to be so lame for so long. We just didn't understand really.

As for the DeAngelis technique, lots of people will tell you its no good for bigger dogs, and the newer more expensive options are possibly better, however, as I said in my post, the surgery is only as good as your surgeon, as well as the post surgery care. We have done cruciate repairs on Samoyeds, Rotties etc with perfect results and the knees have stayed rock solid stable.

I think it's odd that there's no draw in the knee, but they're still diagnosing a RAC based on xrays, when you can't see ligaments in xrays...

[jodi_adam]

just so you know, you can't see ligaments on xrays

im off to the vets again at 6.45pm so i will ask again but she said that "it looks like she might have done a cruciate" and that it was hard to tell??

[anniejac]

has anyone on here had a dog rupture a cruciate and successfully treated it with out surgery? names of dog rehab would be helpful???

A FEW FACTS ABOUT PORSCHA BEFORE YOU ANSWER;

porscha is my loyal 2year old female 22kg staffy who decided to jump her 6ft pen about a month ago wanting to chase another dog walking past the front of our house, porscha often plays ruff with her best friend a amstaff and sometimes she ends up with a few scratches and bumps and the occasional limp which resolves its self by the end of the day, well anyways she continued to play and act like her normal happy self for the next 1.5 days and I just got sick of looking at her limp. when I took her to the vets she had xrays done this is what it said on the recept: prob bilateral cruciate: unable to get draw but xrays indicate of r cruciate.. Ok well she has had four weeks of cartrophen and she is starting another round .

Now for the stuff I feel bad about I have been told that the surgery will cost $4000- this is not a option as I can not find that anywhere plus the i do not think I can contain her through out the recovery the vet said that one wrong move from a dog of this breed could end in devastation, at the moment she is in a porta cot in my lounge room and every time I get up eg toilet or chase my 2 nearly 3year old son she gets up too, I bought a little pen for outside in the daytime and she pulled the metal bars off to get out I even carry her outside to the toilet and the moment I put her on the ground she wants to play with me

I guess what I am asking is, has any one seen or heard of a miracle happen with out surgery?

My Second Staffy just had her Cruciate done and it cost me $1700 with a course Cartrophen injections also / your quote for $4000 seems a lot.

My other Girl had hers done about 3 yrs ago and that was about $1500.

[stormie]

just so you know, you can't see ligaments on xrays

im off to the vets again at 6.45pm so i will ask again but she said that "it looks like she might have done a cruciate" and that it was hard to tell??

well, the main way to diagnose is by feeling for draw. If its ruptured, you can move it, if its not, its solid. I'd want to be pretty sure that was the problem before having major surgery!

[jodi_adam]

well i just got home from the vets, i had a different vet today that expected to see porscha draging her back legs behind her ( as last they seen she had hurt the left leg as well) she had a slight limp and he looked suprised and impressed. after talking to one of the ladies in the wait room i didn't ask all the questios that i wanted to as she seemed to think that porscha shouldn't be able to walk on that leg at all! but she can? so she had her shot & he said that he wants to see her again in another week and we will set whatever is next in motion depending on her progress. but he said he was happy with how far she had come

[APBT]

With proper rest, physio and weight loss (if dog is overweight), there can be an improvement in the condition of the dog. However, it is unlikely you will ever get 100% recovery and you will always have to be careful with watching how the dog is exercising and playing.

I am slightly confused by the vet report- did they say whether it was a partial tear or rupture? if your dog has ruptured both cruciates, it would be walking with a lot of difficulty. In this case, you should proably seriously consider surgery.

If you are not going ahead with surgery (which is understandable if you simply can't afford it) I would recommend that you restrict the dog from exercising for at least one week, preferably longer. That means no running or jumping at all. You may want to contact a dog physio who may be able to suggest some gentle exercsises. If the dog is overweight, put the dog on a diet, this alone often will result in a great improvement.

I have friends whose dog has a partial tear of one cruciate, they decided not to do surgery. The dog was limping quite badly but after some rest (unfortunately the dog has not lost weight) the limping has decreased and the dog can walk around quite normally.

the vet doesn't know as the xray shows mostley intact and some swelling?? i get really upset when i talk to the vets about porscha that i don't seem to take muck in, but it was first the right leg then followed but a panic visit when she had problems with the left leg but i think she may have just bumped it as it was better within a day.

i must also add that as of wednesday she can walk great with no limp for around 5mins or so then she gets tired and the limp starts again

The limp starts when the knee cap comes out of place? Were you advised to push it back into postion? or Have you noticed she her doing it herself when lying down.

[stormie]

wait up, so the patella is luxating???

[Kelly_Louise]

wait up, so the patella is luxating???

I don't think so, OP has not mentioned that...

My Chloe ruptured both her cruciates - and whoever told you that if they were ruptured the dog wouldn't be able to walk or was dragging their legs was extremely incorrect. Chloe walked, sometimes with a limp, sometimes awkwardly, sometimes seemingly okay. They find a way to walk because they have to. Doesn't mean they aren't suffering greatly, it just means they find a way to do it that hurts them the least because they need to get around. Resting will get the inflamation down, and allow them to move around more easily - however, once they overdo it, it aggravates the injury again.

Once the damage is done, there is no 'cure'. If you don't opt for surgery, the injury will always be there - you will always need to monitor the exercise and limit any impacting activity/jumping etc. It will, more likely than not, reoccur many times off and on throughout the rest of the dogs life - and you will always need to be aware of it. Any untreated/injured joint is going to develop arthritis more quickly as well - which is another incentive to ensure that the injury does not keep recurring and why monitoring exercise etc is important. But there are alot of things other than surgery you can do to assist, but they will not fix. First and foremost she will need to be as light as possible - get off all excess weight.

Surgery doesn't work for all dogs... for us, we had Chloe done 4 years ago and not had an issue since. She was able to continue a normal life (after her recovery period of course). I agree it does depend on the surgeon, but the aftercare and recovery period is just as important. Some dogs, even after surgery can still limp occasionally if they really overdo the exercise - but with successful surgery, at least the knee is stable - and whilst there may be occasional discomfort - it allows them to move around quite normally.

Also with ruptured cruciates, once one side goes, the chances are very good that the other will also rupture. This is because the 'good' leg takes up the slack for the injured leg, and puts alot of pressure on it. There have been many people who have successfully managed a cruciate injury without surgery - many on this forum, however it does take alot of dedication and commitment, and involved lots of alternate therapy. It will also depend on how damaged the cruciate is.

I think the best way to decide which way to go, is to decide what will be best manageable for you. Alternative therapies may cost less, but with maintenance needed regularly over time, may end up costing more than surgery. If you opted for surgery, you need to decide if you can provide sufficient aftercare etc until healed. Remember that after surgery they are very sore etc, and won't feel like moving around as much. When they start to feel a little better is the danger period - but we kept Chloe in a small pen, and kept her amused with (non moving) games and training/tricks. I was lucky to be living at home then and she had someone at home monitoring her pretty much 24/7 - so I know it's not possible for everyone. But I have heard of others who have taken a couple of weeks off work, and then gone back and been able to manage the recovery. Just depends, you know your dog better than anyone. Your dog is young, and for her quality of life it is important to make the right decision for her.

[jodi_adam]

surgery has become a maybe after a long chat with my ex and my vet has said a i can have a payment plan(for the cheaper surgery), thats one less worry.

i live on acres with four dogs and a cat that thinks she is a dog and a nearly three year old son, so im affraid that i will not be able to give her the recovery that she needs i don't remember seeing her walk at a normal pace she is always playing, she gets so bouncy and still trys to jump up to sit on my lap, see she thinks she's a little dog as she owns two malts.. i have put her on a diet so she has lost 1.5kg over the last two weeks. i guess my other main fear now is will she ever be able to play normal?

oh and what is patella is luxating?

[Kimjm1]

There are now stifle braces avaliable in Australia for dogs with ruptured cruciates, in a young healthy active breed surgery would always be reccomended as the first option but if this is not possible at this point a brace would be the next best thing in m.y opinion.

[aussielover]

surgery has become a maybe after a long chat with my ex and my vet has said a i can have a payment plan(for the cheaper surgery), thats one less worry.

i live on acres with four dogs and a cat that thinks she is a dog and a nearly three year old son, so im affraid that i will not be able to give her the recovery that she needs i don't remember seeing her walk at a normal pace she is always playing, she gets so bouncy and still trys to jump up to sit on my lap, see she thinks she's a little dog as she owns two malts.. i have put her on a diet so she has lost 1.5kg over the last two weeks. i guess my other main fear now is will she ever be able to play normal?

oh and what is patella is luxating?

So you have a diagnosis then?

To get a proper diagnosis of a ruptured cruciate it requires the dog to be put under GA, and then the stifle joint manipulated. You may be able to get some idea without using GA, but its pretty hard to diagnose without the dog being under.

I wouldn't do surgery unless you have had the diagnosis confirmed. She will need strict cage rest after the operation, do you have a crate or something? Honestly, if you don't do the cage rest, there is a VERY HIGH chance that she will ruin the surgery- I have seen this many times and its is a comnplete waste of time and money. Alternatively you could board her at the vet hospital for a period after the surgery.

Its great you have managed to get some weight off her though, I'm sure it is helping her

A luxating patella is when the knee cap slips out of place, it is quite common in little dogs and not usually a major problem. If you have ever seen a little dog that appears to be "skipping" when it is walking its probably a luxating patella.

[Kelly_Louise]

surgery has become a maybe after a long chat with my ex and my vet has said a i can have a payment plan(for the cheaper surgery), thats one less worry.

i live on acres with four dogs and a cat that thinks she is a dog and a nearly three year old son, so im affraid that i will not be able to give her the recovery that she needs i don't remember seeing her walk at a normal pace she is always playing, she gets so bouncy and still trys to jump up to sit on my lap, see she thinks she's a little dog as she owns two malts.. i have put her on a diet so she has lost 1.5kg over the last two weeks. i guess my other main fear now is will she ever be able to play normal?

That's very positive news that they can offer you a payment plan - would make life so much easier if more vets did this (most people just dont have the thousands lying around). I agree that you need a definite diagnosis before opting for surgery.

I think, if you can manage to keep her inside with you during her recovery, in a small pen (that is not on slippery floors or near stairs) and separate to the other dogs (who may excite her) - you should be able to keep her quiet enough for recovery and if she is inside in a pen you can keep an eye on her whilst you are going about your day in the house (but she can still see you for company). That way, she can still move around to be comfortable, but if only in a small area then she can not do anything too strenuous. My Chloe was not crate trained - and could not be crated... so we set up a small pen for her. The only time they should come out of that pen is for trips to the vet, and ON LEAD trips to outside to the toilet. Any time outside the pen should ALWAYS be on lead until sufficient healing has taken place and as advised by the vet. Even then, until the muscle has built back up again, I would only exercise on lead for a time.

If you need to have cuddle time and spend time with her - start a routine of discouraging her jumping up (on you, or if she jumps up on things). If you opt for surgery, try sitting on the floor with her to have a cuddle, or just sit with her for some company and some attention - rather than having her jump up on you etc. Replace ball toys with chew toys/soft squeaky toys etc. Get her used to other things that will not impact her joints as much.

Most dogs will adjust to this after time. They may not like it, but they do accept it if you are consistent with them and they learn what they can or can not do (with your control of course). Even though you may feel sorry for them, you must be firm for their own good and not give them an inch. The recovery and rehabilitation is crucial - but they do not know this.

It sounds daunting, and 6 - 8 weeks of confinement sounds like forever... but it is manageable. You just have to come up with alternatives to what would normally happen, and to keep them occupied. It may mean a bit of extra work to ensure they are complying with their recovery, but it can be done. If you are not able to be at home for majority of the recovery, I would look at arranging alternate care, or I would definitely crate them.

Hoping it's not a full rupture though, and can repair itself naturally with some rest.

[Bullbreedlover]

One of our show Bulldogs ruptured a cruciate.

He was operated on by one of the most awesome vets I have ever had the pleasure of knowing and working with.

Absolutely and completely recovered after complete rest.

The way the surgery was done was great and the operating scar was on the inside of the dogs leg.

And yes even though it was nearly 10 years ago the cost then was around $400.00.

[kirst_goldens]

my cat was quoted 700 for cruciate surgery but after 2 weeks they had decided it was a partial tear and cause he was crated and rested so well he had healed really well himself and it was fine to just have some rimadyl injections and a bit more crateing and it came good... then he broke his hip... hahaha i swear million dollar cat hahaha

I would make sure of the diagnoses first - ie that it is a ful rupture and not a sprain or partial tear as everyone else said otherwise it is alot of crazyness for something that might not have needed it... u could talk to ur vet about xrays and what not or go to another vet for a second opinion?? anyone on here in the same area who can reccomend a vet??

But i would say if its a full rupture then u should do the surgery - permanent damage is not good and very preventable.

Good luck!