Clicking For Calm?

[corvus]

Erik gets quite aroused very easily. Once he gets aroused he spends a lot of time barking at things getting himself more aroused. I've started clicking for lying beside me quietly on his bed. The problem is, I think the clicker itself gets him aroused. I dumped it and have been rewarding without a marker at all, which seems to be working, but I wonder if I should persist with the clicker to mark nice, calm signals like sleepy eyes and tail down? Did I maybe bail too soon, not giving him a chance to

learn to be calm with the clicker sometimes as well?

[megan_]

Maybe use a different marker instead? Could be a word said very calmly. For my dog, the clicker ONLY means "try many different things until you get it right! Go! Go! Go!" (becasue we do free shaping with it). I use "yes' as a general marker.

[Jigsaw]

The clicker engages the amygdala which is associated with emotion such as fear and arousal. If you've used the clicker to mark and then reward an active behaviour when training such as sit, down etc or free shaping, when you use a clicker to mark a more passive behaviour such as a relaxed state it can actually trigger the opposite of what your after as the click is arousing and the dog then looks for the reward (at least that's my understanding of how it works!). There is also the association of the click with a dopamine release and dopamine is an excitatory neurotransmitter which can lead to action or movement in anticipation of a reward (putting it in terms I can understand! .

I would suggest using a word marker instead as you can adjust the volume level more easily or even try pairing a touch on the body (say the cheek) with a reward such as an ear rub, massage or something he finds less stimulating and then work on putting it on cue. I've also seen suggestions of using your scent such as your hand over their nose or scent of lavender as a "keep going" signal to maintain the relaxed behaviour (I can't remember where I read that now).

[corvus]

Makes sense!

[corvus]

It does beg the question why there is a book entitled "Click to Calm" though. Presumably you can click for calm behaviours and click for more active behaviours for the same dog sometimes and not crank up an active dopamine arousal sort of pathway? I guess if you didn't first build a whole lot of establishing operations into normal active clicker training and started with calm behaviours as well and kind of built EOs for calm behaviours and EOs for active behaviours you could maybe still use the clicker for both. Not that I especially want to.

If I recall correctly, Karen Overall's protocol for calm doesn't use markers at all. I remember giving that one a shot when Erik was young and giving up in frustration. He was so excited by possibly getting food that we were actually getting less calm as we proceeded than more calm. And then once we'd done the first session he knew what it looked like and the next time I tried to start a session he got more excited again! I thought I'd try it with rubs as rewards instead of food, but I think I give out too many rubs for free and if Erik thinks he's working he gets excited even for rubs. I swear Erik has an over-sensitive reward system. He's manic!

[fbaudry]

makes plenty of sense Jigsaw!

the clicker is one of the many things that arouse Archie so clicking to reward calm behaviour was never an option

Corvus have you looked into Karen Overall's protocol for relaxation?

http://dogscouts.org/Protocol_for_relaxation.html

[fbaudry]

Oops must have posted at the same time!

Click to calm is more geared towards reactive/aggressive dogs. The idea is that the instant your dog looks at another dog coming, you redirect him to watch you, then C&T. You are "calming" your dog in a sense that you are not letting the situation escalate but teach your dog to redirect. I know I am over simplifying, the book is well worth a read!

The version of the relaxation protocol I work on with my behaviourist involves verbal communication (lots of it!), almost whispering in a soothing voice.