What Age To Desex?

[LizT]

I've always liked to let my Male GSD'smature 'a bit' before desexing them at around seven months old. Usually if he's cocking his leg I consider him old enough.

With females I think the biggest concern is that if they are desexed BEFORE 6 months of age OR before their first 'season', (not always the same as larger breeds do often take longer to have a first season), then they are protected moreso against breast and ovarian cancers than if they are desexed after they have begun to cycle.

[K9Nev]

Mmm, I was told that by a Veterinary Behaviourist

Yes, but I am talking about normal, healthy, well-behaved dogs, that are just undergoing a domestic rehabilitation. Sexually mature dogs that have never been allowed to mate. Not dogs showing serious problems like anxiety, aggression or fence jumping.

Many foster carers reported to me an immediate improvement in their ability to discourage naughty boy behaviour. We are expecting the dog's behaviour to improve anyway during foster care, but getting the castration done earlier does seem to help. It's like the dogs are listening more to their owner and less to their boy bits.

I wouldn't agree that foster care would provide the best indication that desexing has improved behaviour and handler focus. More than likely, the dog is more relaxed in it's foster arrangement and some training has taken effect. Desexing is no substitute for training for developing the required behaviour from a dog IMHO

Cheers

Nev

[Miranda]

Humping, marking, aggression and jumping 6 foot fences to find bitches in season etc, and all the terrible behavioural issues supposedly associated with entire males is absolute bulldust.

I couldn't agree more. I have a large breed and don't advocate early desexing at all, I recommend at least 1 year for a male and I like a bitch to have a season prior to speying.

I am, of course, speaking as a breeder not a rescuer.

Edited July 26, 2010 by Miranda

[Greytmate]

Mmm, I was told that by a Veterinary Behaviourist

Yes, but I am talking about normal, healthy, well-behaved dogs, that are just undergoing a domestic rehabilitation. Sexually mature dogs that have never been allowed to mate. Not dogs showing serious problems like anxiety, aggression or fence jumping.

Many foster carers reported to me an immediate improvement in their ability to discourage naughty boy behaviour. We are expecting the dog's behaviour to improve anyway during foster care, but getting the castration done earlier does seem to help. It's like the dogs are listening more to their owner and less to their boy bits.

I wouldn't agree that foster care would provide the best indication that desexing has improved behaviour and handler focus. More than likely, the dog is more relaxed in it's foster arrangement and some training has taken effect. Desexing is no substitute for training for developing the required behaviour from a dog IMHO

Cheers

Nev

Yes that is the case, and of course I am taking that into account. But we have noticed a difference when the dogs are desexed. We used to delay desexing to allow the dog to settle into the home first, but started bringing it forward for its behaviour benefits.

This is observed over hundreds of dogs, in care with skilled people that have been caring for dozens of dogs of the same breed and age. You can dismiss it because it isn't a scientific study. But I am not going to write off five years of careful observation and experience as a coincidence, just because other people doubt it. That would be quite stupid.

Desexing is never substitute for training. But I know it can make a huge difference by lowering testosterone levels and behaviour associated with that.

[Greytmate]

I wouldn't agree that foster care would provide the best indication that desexing has improved behaviour and handler focus.

Well where would you do a study to find an indication?

If not with a group of dogs of a similar age, breed, and similar upbringing and known clean history, all having passed a standardised behaviour test, and all being fostered in the care of people that have been trained to use the same training techniques and are documenting the training progress in the same way?

Why wouldn't that give us an indication with the main variable being time in care, both before and after castration?

[Mystiqview]

Desex when you feel comfortable. I tell my male puppy buyers to leave it if they can until at least 12 months to give them time to mature UNLESS they are finding they are having problems with the dog being entire.

I have seen desexed early, desexed at 6 months and desexed at 12 months, personally I do think there is a difference in coat texture/length, and physical look to the dog.

As for vets, that has been standard practice to desex at 6 months. It is a nice easy figure for most to remember and has been pretty much set over the years as that is when you desex the dog in the mind of the general populous. It is also as someone else has said, it is generally before most dogs reach maturity. (males around 9-10 months, females from 6 months generally speaking). It is also a valid point someone made when making considerations for anaesthetic for 30+ kilos, so that may be something to consider as well.

I would leave it as long as possible to what the others are saying for medium to large breeds, UNLESS you are having issues with him being entire.

As for entire male dogs being aggressive etc: I have run and seen run up to 10 stud dogs together WITHOUT issue. They are non related, and do not live together etc. Some have had bitch up their noses. It really in my opinion come down to how those those dogs were socialised, what the pack order is at home (person and dog included) and the respect the dog has for the owner.

I have seen desexed dogs who have been desexed early at dog parks cause fights and trouble. Desexing does not stop some dogs from wanting to hump everything in site and being a right royal pain the butt. Most of these dogs I have seen in the off lead park, the owners do not have any control over the dog nor respect by the dog. Some seem to think it funny their dogs harrasses all the females and tries to hump them all the time.

[Mystiqview]

Forgot to add. Another consideration is if you are planning holidays and need to board your dog, some boarding kennels do not take whole dogs after 6 months of age, especially in peak season.

Remembered that from another topic

[K9Nev]

I wouldn't agree that foster care would provide the best indication that desexing has improved behaviour and handler focus.

Well where would you do a study to find an indication?

If not with a group of dogs of a similar age, breed, and similar upbringing and known clean history, all having passed a standardised behaviour test, and all being fostered in the care of people that have been trained to use the same training techniques and are documenting the training progress in the same way?

Why wouldn't that give us an indication with the main variable being time in care, both before and after castration?

I am thinking a foster care situation being tempory housing for a dog of unknown history awaiting a permanent home. Many unwanted behaviours could exist in foster care from a general lack of previous training or the dog being unsettled in it's new surroundings etc etc. I would be more looking at the dog to stabilise and become settled, train the dog and then desex where I would be confident to say that in 99% of the time, desexing the (male) dog would make little difference if at all. IMHO, poor animal behaviour is the result of inadequate training more so than the effects of testosterone

Cheers

Nev

[Parkeyre]

In my breed; dogs desexed early just look leggier then the dogs left entire while growing.

That's the ONLY difference I see.

I just wanted to Edit to Add that most pet owners don't even notice it.

Edited July 26, 2010 by Parkeyre

[lovemesideways]

When you are putting some serious thought into making your decision about desexing, make sure you're working with facts, not myths and legends as seem to be perpetuated on internet forums.

And if you have an agreement with the dogs breeder to desex before a certain age, it's not up to you to change the rules.

No agreement with breeder

Hard to find facts when everyone thinks that their opinion is 'fact', vets included.

I have already made my decision though, not desexing Riddick until I think 12 months or later.

[Greytmate]

I wouldn't agree that foster care would provide the best indication that desexing has improved behaviour and handler focus.

Well where would you do a study to find an indication?

If not with a group of dogs of a similar age, breed, and similar upbringing and known clean history, all having passed a standardised behaviour test, and all being fostered in the care of people that have been trained to use the same training techniques and are documenting the training progress in the same way?

Why wouldn't that give us an indication with the main variable being time in care, both before and after castration?

I am thinking a foster care situation being tempory housing for a dog of unknown history awaiting a permanent home. Many unwanted behaviours could exist in foster care from a general lack of previous training or the dog being unsettled in it's new surroundings etc etc. I would be more looking at the dog to stabilise and become settled, train the dog and then desex where I would be confident to say that in 99% of the time, desexing the (male) dog would make little difference if at all. IMHO, poor animal behaviour is the result of inadequate training more so than the effects of testosterone

Cheers

Nev

I am not talking about dogs of unknown history, temperament or breeding.

Most poor behaviours have nothing to do with desexing. But castration quickly lowers testosterone levels, and this causes some undesirable behaviours to either decrease in frequency, or become a lot less intense, making it easier to train the dog out of doing.

All of these foster dogs generally had been given no previous training to curb any undesirable behaviours resulting from sex drive.

Unwanted behaviour does not exist because of lack of training or how 'settled' the dog is. Behaviour (wanted or not) exists in its own right for its own reasons, one of which is an attempt to satisfy sex drive. Remove the testosterone, and straight away you are reducing one of the drives that motivates a dog to behave in a certain way. Then training can be used to more easily stop any behaviour that has just become a habit, but isn't as driven as it used to be.