What Age To Desex?

[poodlefan]

That's a valid point poodlefan (and a great photo too). However, perhaps that does indicate that entire dogs are not for everyone. The average dog owner would be better off with desexed dogs.

I agree. The issue then becomes at what age to desex. I posted the pic to show that you don't need to desex a dog before 12 months of age to stop it displaying undesireable behaviour.

There's more to turning a male dog into a good canine citizen that lopping off its testicles. Strange how some people object wildly to tail docking but see no issue with subjecting baby puppies to surgery to 'control their behaviour'.

Hormones affect more than sexual organs. Best we be sure we know what those effects are before desexing baby pups IMO.

Edited May 26, 2010 by poodlefan

[oakway]

I do believe in time we all learn to accept early de sexing as the norm.

I truely hope you are wrong. Most dog sports folk oppose the practice for a start.

Many many breeds benefit from a structural perspective with longer exposure to hormones. There are links being researched between early desexing and a range of conditions including HD, increased cruciate ligament rupture, certain cancers.. all kinds of things.

You don't have to be a rocket scientist or a professional trainer to manage most breeds of dogs as entires until they finish growing.

You can negate the "but they'll make puppies" argument with a vasectomy if that concerns folk.

I really do believe that in time we will have to de sexed all pets before they are sold.

But until then it's the owners choice when to de sex.

I have seen sight hounds de sexed at 12 weeks with nothing happening that was detrimental to the dogs health or growth.

I can but only tell the truth.

[fiveplusone]

What an awesome photo poodlefan.

How long did it take to get that shot....or where all the doggies so well behaved they all did as they were told???

ETA...oops, sorry (about being OT!)

Edited May 26, 2010 by fiveplusone

[poodlefan]

I have seen sight hounds de sexed at 12 weeks with nothing happening that was detrimental to the dogs health or growth.

I can but only tell the truth.

And if I bred pups that were sought after for the wrong reasons Oakway, I'd probably consider early desexing as a better option for the dog than being used to churn out pups for someone else.

Sighthounds with their leaner structures might not suffer from the same issues that more solidly built dogs can experience when early desexing causes early growth plate closure with associated changes in femur length and angulation. Who knows?

It's not like the issue seems to have been studied. The RSPCA study that concluded that early desexing did not create health issues for pups didn't look at anything past the age of 12 weeks.

[poodlefan]

What an awesome photo poodlefan.

How long did it take to get that shot....or where all the doggies so well behaved they all did as they were told???

OT but dogs were told to stay and owners moved out of shot. FHRP took several pics. Total time was about 5 minutes? The pup in the middle that broke was only 5 months old. Oldest dog in the shot was 15. It was taken at an annual get together we go to at a friend's property.

All dogs belong to dog sports folk/obedience and agility instructors. The 31 dogs in the shot have 100 Agility, 21 Obedience, 6 Champion and 6 Retrieving titles among them.

My friend's vet has a similar one from an earlier get together. The vet put it up and most customers believe its been photoshopped.

Edited May 26, 2010 by poodlefan

[oakway]

I have seen sight hounds de sexed at 12 weeks with nothing happening that was detrimental to the dogs health or growth.

I can but only tell the truth.

And if I bred pups that were sought after for the wrong reasons Oakway, I'd probably consider early desexing as a better option for the dog than being used to churn out pups for someone else.

Sighthounds with their leaner structures might not suffer from the same issues that more solidly built dogs can experience when early desexing causes early growth plate closure with associated changes in femur length and angulation. Who knows?

It's not like the issue seems to have been studied. The RSPCA study that concluded that early desexing did not create health issues for pups didn't look at anything past the age of 12 weeks.

Who knows what may happen in in the future or what it may bring.

Yes, I do understand that some of popular breeds need protecting from the unscrupulous BYB's.

I also hope the OP is reading what is being said and makes a wise decision with their dog.

[Bjelkier]

My male elkhound was desexed at 6 months (medium breed), so was my female goldy. My goldy does look taller and leaner compared to other goldies, but there is no discernible difference in my male dog compared to other elkies.

I do have a question about entire male dogs though. Every single entire male dog I have seen in dog parks ends up getting into fights with other males. Particularly if there are two entire male dogs around. Do entire males bring out aggressiveness in other male dogs? Do they tend to be more aggressive towards other males, including other entire male dogs?

Would anyone here leave two entire male dogs unsupervised for a whole day if they know each other very well?

My entire male has never had a fight with another male dog.

He has played with many different breeds including Bullmastiff's, AKita's and Staffords. Never had an issue.

I think it has a lot more to do with how the dog is trained and managed then if it's desexed or not.

[Wazzat Xolo]

I just had too reply !!

Mastectomy may reduce the risk of Breast cancer BUT silicone implants then up it again lol

You are correct Wazzat. What are your thoughts on testicular cancer in dog's, have you experienced it???.

Having no testicles myself No ( Although my old boss thinks I have em!)

I personally desex all dogs if they are not being used for breeding by myslef, although I have heard

That most malignant prostatic tumors in dogs occur in desexed dogs and desexing your dog puts him at risk for one of the worst cancers they can get. You can remove the very slight risk of testicular cancer in desexed dogs, that's a small matter; the incidence of testicular cancer is so minimal. I have read a large number of testicular cancers in dogs are benign.

But this is only what i have read on the net, I myself am a desex em if your not using them person and will continue this as I have had no problems in the past with my choices.

It will be an ongoing debate and there are both good and not so good for both realms of thought

[Melo]

Well someone forgot to tell our GS that if he was done early he would not develop properly, he was de-sexed at 6 months and still grew into a hulk like 60kg german shepherd. (and he is purebred, with papers and no he is not over weight) Health wise he is now 11 and showing signs of problems in being such a large dog, other than that his health is fine. Do we regret him being desexed, umm NO!

Each to their own..............

[poodlefan]

Well someone forgot to tell our GS that if he was done early he would not develop properly, he was de-sexed at 6 months and still grew into a hulk like 60kg german shepherd. (and he is purebred, with papers and no he is not over weight) Health wise he is now 11 and showing signs of problems in being such a large dog, other than that his health is fine. Do we regret him being desexed, umm NO!

Each to their own..............

German Shepherd Breed Standard:

Dogs: Height at withers 60-65 cm (23½ - 241/2 ins)

Weight 30-40 kg (66-88 lbs)

Hulk is right!!

[Melo]

Yes his nickname is 'freak of nature', and no-one believes us UNTIL they meet him

[Rysup]

I've owned entire dogs & bitches for the last 18 years. I have never had testicular cancer in a dog, never had mammary cancer in a bitch, and only had one case of pyometra in a bitch (who had never had a litter). My dogs are entire from the day they are born to the day they die. My eldest here at the moment is a 14 year old dog, and a 13 year old bitch.

I believe that the average pet should be desexed. I have no opinion on age, but it should be done whenever is the best for that dogs owner. Some people cannot handle a bitch in season, in which case I totally agree that they should have her done before her first season.

I dont think that desexing a dog early makes up for poor training. If you dont put any work into a dog, it will still turn out feral, testicles or not.

[stormie]

You don't have to be a rocket scientist or a professional trainer to manage most breeds of dogs as entires until they finish growing.

True, but I think we're overestimating the general dog owners ability. The majority of the DOL community are quite dog savvy, in all aspects of ownership, but I have to say a large amount of the dog owners we see really have no idea.

Take the phone call I had the other day - An owner called up asking if they can start feeding their 3month old small breed puppy adult food now, because it won't stop mouthing. They genuinly believed that a) the biting/mouthing would cease once the dog becomes and adult, and b) feeding it adult food would turn the dog into an adult.

We deal with people like this all the time...

[poodlefan]

Stormie:

Take the phone call I had the other day - An owner called up asking if they can start feeding their 3month old small breed puppy adult food now, because it won't stop mouthing. They genuinly believed that a) the biting/mouthing would cease once the dog becomes and adult, and b) feeding it adult food would turn the dog into an adult.

We deal with people like this all the time...

How's your blood pressure?

[Teebs]

My male elkhound was desexed at 6 months (medium breed), so was my female goldy. My goldy does look taller and leaner compared to other goldies, but there is no discernible difference in my male dog compared to other elkies.

I do have a question about entire male dogs though. Every single entire male dog I have seen in dog parks ends up getting into fights with other males. Particularly if there are two entire male dogs around. Do entire males bring out aggressiveness in other male dogs? Do they tend to be more aggressive towards other males, including other entire male dogs?

Would anyone here leave two entire male dogs unsupervised for a whole day if they know each other very well?

My entire male has never had a fight with another male dog.

He has played with many different breeds including Bullmastiff's, AKita's and Staffords. Never had an issue.

I think it has a lot more to do with how the dog is trained and managed then if it's desexed or not.

Atlas was entire till he was 2.5 years old, his best mate was an entire male SBT, the two of them loved each other and would go on play dates, he got attacked when he was about 3, after he was desexed, and that has made him not like many other dogs

Edited May 26, 2010 by Teebs

[Sunnyflower]

So glad to read this desexing thread.

Oscar is two in July and we are getting him desexed just after his birthday.

I'm not really sure why I haven't had him desexed prior to this but being a Cav and being extremely easy to train/handle I have never had an issue with him at all. The only thing he does is hump his bed and that has slowed down since he has gotten a bit older!

From 12 months to now I have seen a massive difference in his physical development so no regrets, my only motivation now to get him desexed is because if he ever got stolen like I thought he did on the weekend I would feel a lot better knowing he is desexed.

[poodlefan]

So glad to read this desexing thread.

Oscar is two in July and we are getting him desexed just after his birthday.

I'm not really sure why I haven't had him desexed prior to this but being a Cav and being extremely easy to train/handle I have never had an issue with him at all. The only thing he does is hump his bed and that has slowed down since he has gotten a bit older!

From 12 months to now I have seen a massive difference in his physical development so no regrets, my only motivation now to get him desexed is because if he ever got stolen like I thought he did on the weekend I would feel a lot better knowing he is desexed.

Given his breed, I think you're making a very smart decision.

[Shmurps]

You don't have to be a rocket scientist or a professional trainer to manage most breeds of dogs as entires until they finish growing.

True, but I think we're overestimating the general dog owners ability. The majority of the DOL community are quite dog savvy, in all aspects of ownership, but I have to say a large amount of the dog owners we see really have no idea.

Take the phone call I had the other day - An owner called up asking if they can start feeding their 3month old small breed puppy adult food now, because it won't stop mouthing. They genuinly believed that a) the biting/mouthing would cease once the dog becomes and adult, and b) feeding it adult food would turn the dog into an adult.

We deal with people like this all the time...

I agree and I hear you.

[Sunnyflower]

So glad to read this desexing thread.

Oscar is two in July and we are getting him desexed just after his birthday.

I'm not really sure why I haven't had him desexed prior to this but being a Cav and being extremely easy to train/handle I have never had an issue with him at all. The only thing he does is hump his bed and that has slowed down since he has gotten a bit older!

From 12 months to now I have seen a massive difference in his physical development so no regrets, my only motivation now to get him desexed is because if he ever got stolen like I thought he did on the weekend I would feel a lot better knowing he is desexed.

Given his breed, I think you're making a very smart decision.

..

I was told when I got him that cavies get stolen a lot for breeing purpose so now he will be useless to a BYB.

[lovemesideways]

Woah I come back and theres another 4 pages. Awesome!

Thanks everyone for posting about your experiences, its great to read and learn the different views on this particular situation.

I think what worries me most is all the "horror" stories you hear of how entire dogs act (eg. marking, humping, aggression) but when I stop and think about it. I have a extremely chilled out Labrador who I'm putting a lot of work into to make him the most amazing dog possible.

I myself know what I'm doing and am quite comfortable handling and training a dog of any age, sex or breed, entire or not!

I've never had a entire dog, or really a dog that was fully "mine", so it's a little nerve wracking at times...

Its almost like its used as a excuse sometimes, "that dog attacked my dog!", "well its cause hes entire"..

I'm thinking that I will leave him for now, and just see how it goes. There isn't any rush. (hes only 5 months!)

As my dad said, "When they're gone, they're gone. They certainly don't grow back "

If my vet gives me more trouble there may be a thread asking for recommendations for vets in the northern beaches area... as willing as I am to listen to the words of the older and more experienced generation. Hes my dog alone, and if you're gonna preach Mr Vet then bye bye.

Edited May 26, 2010 by lovemesideways