What Age To Desex?

[~Anne~]

With my own dogs, I would rather wait a little longer before desexing, but then I know I am responsible and in the event I had a bitch come into season earlier then expected I would keep her safe. I would also delay desexing of my males due to the same mindset.

In having said that, all my life I have desexed cats and dogs no later than 6 months of age and I am yet to see any issues because of it. I have heard that dogs become 'leggy' but, let's face, if you aren't showing (which you obviously aren't if your are desexing) then who cares if the legs appear a little longer? Does it seriously matter?

I think you should make the decision that is right for you. Research, but look at all sides of the debate as objectively as possible and come to your own conclusions. After all, you are still going to desex and not allow any accidentla breeding, and that is the important thing.

[Lucy's mama]

Do entire males bring out aggressiveness in other male dogs?

I would like to know this too. Banjo was attacked twice by to different off-lead dogs on Monday, and I was baisically told by one of the pet sitting regulars 'dogs will be dogs, your fault for not having desexed him yet' Once he was onlead, and the other he was off lead but next to me and was giving submissive body language.

[Verdant Amphibian]

I don't know much about the desexing age debate, until I joined here I didn't even know the debate existed. My parents-in-law however desexed their beagle boy early - he was humping which turned out to be a dominance thing anyway. He was a gorgeous looking pup as were his littermates. The others are undesexed hunting dogs and still look normal, he however is the ugliest beagle you have ever seen, his head just looks too small for his body - his mother has a bigger head than he does. They want to do agility with him but he's always a kilo to heavy, which might be a good thing if his body/head is that out of proportion you have to wonder about his joints

[Red Fox]

I just had too reply !!

Mastectomy may reduce the risk of Breast cancer BUT silicone implants then up it again lol

OT but not true. Women with implants have the same risk of breast cancer as those without (some studies have even found that the risk is slightly lower in women with implants). It has been studied and proven many times over. Cancer forms in breast tissue - not silicone

Back on topic - what are peoples view on desexing females? Given the risks of pyo and mamory cancers would you leave a female working/sport dog entire or desex after a certain age?

From what I have read there seems to be more of an argument (risk v bebefits) for desexing females than males.

eta, link to article "The Long-Term Health Effects of Spay / Neuter in Dogs" http://www2.dcn.org/orgs/ddtc/sfiles/LongT...euterInDogs.pdf

Edited May 25, 2010 by SecretKei

[aussielover]

It will be cheaper for you to get it done before 6 months...

once they are over say 30kg , it becomes more expensive- more anaesthetic to use etc.

But you should really get it done whenever YOU feel ready for it to happen. I have seen hundreds of animals get desexed at 6 months and can't say I have heard of any problems. To be honest, I don't think it makes a great deal of difference when they are desexed (different in giant breeds), I mean the rscpca and shelters desex at like 8weeks of age.

Can I ask those who have had their dogs done at over 6months, what was the specific reason for this? I don't have a problem with when people choose to desex their pets- better late than never!!! And I think an 8 week old puppy is probably too young for my personal preference- but it is commonly done.

[Shmurps]

I thought that it was the testosterone that maybe the cause of such cancers prostate, perianal and testicular. As far as age goes it would depend on the breed.

Anyway, each to their own.

[aussielover]

In the early 1990's one of the Guide Dog Schools in Europe did some work on the desexing of Guide Dogs, the findings were, <I am going on memory> that the desexed some dogs as early as 6-8 weeks and others were desexed at around 15-18 months just prior to being paired with a partner. The Guide Dog School found that they had a far higher success rate with dogs that were desexed later. I believe that during this time bloodwork was done and this showed that around this time that hormones released into the bloodstream of the dogs had an effect of causing a maturation of the brain.

I did find a couple of articles about this on the internet a while ago but am currently unable to locate anything.

That is interesting!!!

Do you have a link to the paper? or even the name of the journal it was published in? I am interested in doing some research on guide dogs as an honours project, and it would be intersting to follow this up in Australia as I believe (at least guide dogs NSW) still desex their animals at 6 months of age.

[stormie]

If it was my dog, I'd probably wait till the 8-9months, depending on how he handles his hormones.

But I would also say 6months is fine. Some people say 'early' desexing increases risks of things like bone cancer etc, but really, unless you left that same dog entire, you can't be sure the dog wouldn't have ended up with osteosarcoma anyway.

Yes, I've seen a number of cases of testicular cancer in older, entire dogs. I'd rather chop them off when they're young and healthy than wait till they're older and have cancer.

My Dane Orbit was always lighter in frame than other Danes. I waited till he was 18months old

and he was still quite light at this age, but since being desexed he has still filled out considerably, to the point he looks much like other Danes his age. It's not like once you desex, they stop growing and filling out completely.

I think the main advice here though, is find a new vet. You don't want a vet who dictates to you what you should be doing in this circumstance.

Having an entire dog is not for everyone and I think it's a little bit irresponsible people suggesting others keep their dogs entire for life. Entire males are a whole different world of responsibility, training and leadership, IMO, that not your average pet home can and want to provide.

[aussielover]

By the way, your puppy is sooooooooooo adorable!!!!!!! I want him!!!!!

[oakway]

A lot of breeders de sex at 12 weeks.

As most of these dogs will be pet/companion dogs.

Years ago we were always told not to de sex our horses till 2 years now we do them

as soon as the Testes drop and we find that there is no ill effect what so ever.

I do believe in time we all learn to accept early de sexing as the norm.

Also we were always told to de sex the cat after six months and now it is the norm to purchase

them around 12 weeks already de sexed.

[macka]

Having an entire dog is not for everyone and I think it's a little bit irresponsible people suggesting others keep their dogs entire for life. Entire males are a whole different world of responsibility, training and leadership, IMO, that not your average pet home can and want to provide.

This is basically why I decided to desex Archer at 7 months. He started marking and while that in itself wasn't a big deal, I started thinking about other potential behavioural challenges that we might face by leaving him entire for longer and decided that I just wasn't confident enough in my training ability to take that risk. That, and every vet I asked (4 in total) recommended 6 months.

[stormie]

Having an entire dog is not for everyone and I think it's a little bit irresponsible people suggesting others keep their dogs entire for life. Entire males are a whole different world of responsibility, training and leadership, IMO, that not your average pet home can and want to provide.

This is basically why I decided to desex Archer at 7 months. He started marking and while that in itself wasn't a big deal, I started thinking about other potential behavioural challenges that we might face by leaving him entire for longer and decided that I just wasn't confident enough in my training ability to take that risk. That, and every vet I asked (4 in total) recommended 6 months.

Exactly, and whilst this is a behavioural issue too, it is triggered by testosterone. You'd be surprised at how many older, desexed males we see that still pee all over everything like they're entire, because a) they were left entire and b) the owners weren't knowledgeable enough to know how to deal with the behaviour and correct it.

In saying that though, we do see entires who don't mark inside, but that is usually because they're with experienced owners who have dealt with the behaviour from the beginning because they knew how.

I've said it before and I'll say it again - I occasionally wish I desexed Orbit before he reached sexual maturity because it did alter his behaviour somewhat, which has stuck around. Obviously this was partly me because I had never had an entire male before and may not have been a strong enough leader at the time and enforced the rules hard enough, but prior to him reaching maturity, this wasn't a problem - it was when testosterone was flooding his body that his overall attitude changed and his confidence and cockyness increased.

[poodlefan]

I do believe in time we all learn to accept early de sexing as the norm.

I truely hope you are wrong. Most dog sports folk oppose the practice for a start.

Many many breeds benefit from a structural perspective with longer exposure to hormones. There are links being researched between early desexing and a range of conditions including HD, increased cruciate ligament rupture, certain cancers.. all kinds of things.

You don't have to be a rocket scientist or a professional trainer to manage most breeds of dogs as entires until they finish growing.

You can negate the "but they'll make puppies" argument with a vasectomy if that concerns folk.

Edited May 25, 2010 by poodlefan

[New Age Outlaw]

You can negate the "but they'll make puppies" argument with a vasectomy if that concerns folk.

I actually like this approach. I am assuming that a vasectomy would prevent the ability to procreate whilst still allowing the production of testosterone - a win win situation in my book, in some instances anyway (sporting dogs and the like). I like the idea that there may be a number of different options to fit different pet owners circumstances, rather than vets pushing only one option (either for political reasons, or because they don't really know any different). Are any vets in Australia are doing vasectomy type operations as opposed to castrations? Just curious - don't have any entire males here at the moment, but it would be interesting to know for the future.

[poodlefan]

You can negate the "but they'll make puppies" argument with a vasectomy if that concerns folk.

I actually like this approach. I am assuming that a vasectomy would prevent the ability to procreate whilst still allowing the production of testosterone - a win win situation in my book, in some instances anyway (sporting dogs and the like). I like the idea that there may be a number of different options to fit different pet owners circumstances, rather than vets pushing only one option (either for political reasons, or because they don't really know any different). Are any vets in Australia are doing vasectomy type operations as opposed to castrations? Just curious - don't have any entire males here at the moment, but it would be interesting to know for the future.

Not to my knowledge but its something I might discuss with my vet.

I'd rather see this op done on a 6 week old pup than its testicles removed.

[becks]

My male elkhound was desexed at 6 months (medium breed), so was my female goldy. My goldy does look taller and leaner compared to other goldies, but there is no discernible difference in my male dog compared to other elkies.

I do have a question about entire male dogs though. Every single entire male dog I have seen in dog parks ends up getting into fights with other males. Particularly if there are two entire male dogs around. Do entire males bring out aggressiveness in other male dogs? Do they tend to be more aggressive towards other males, including other entire male dogs?

Would anyone here leave two entire male dogs unsupervised for a whole day if they know each other very well?

I have had up to 3 entire stud dogs crated together with an in season bitch in the same room and never had any aggression from any of them.

Aggression is an individual thing, I have seen many more (comparitively) agrressive nuetered dogs then entires.

[poodlefan]

O-G:

I do have a question about entire male dogs though. Every single entire male dog I have seen in dog parks ends up getting into fights with other males. Particularly if there are two entire male dogs around. Do entire males bring out aggressiveness in other male dogs? Do they tend to be more aggressive towards other males, including other entire male dogs?

Or do the sorts of people who let their entire male dogs get into dust ups in dog parks have no bloody idea about managing dogs?

I'd not judge every entire male dog based on the sorts of behaviours you see in a dog park anymore than I'd judge a breed by the same standard.

My entire male dog has never had a fight in his life. He regularly runs with other entire males owned by responsible dog owners.

It's the breed/temperament/management mix that needs to be considered as a whole. Some entire males will challenge others.. but not all.

ETA: There are 9 entire male dogs in this photo.. and not a grumble out of any of them towards one another

Edited May 26, 2010 by poodlefan

[badboyz]

I prefer no earlier than 12mths, regardless of breed (including my little chi who had only one testicle). There is a physical difference in a dog desexed before maturity, and I like my dogs to look and be the best they can be, even if just a pet.

[Odin-Genie]

I prefer no earlier than 12mths, regardless of breed (including my little chi who had only one testicle). There is a physical difference in a dog desexed before maturity, and I like my dogs to look and be the best they can be, even if just a pet.

I can only see the difference in my female goldy. My male looks the same as other undesexed showdogs.

However, I must say that I like my goldy's lean and tall look better than the normal stocky look.

[Odin-Genie]

O-G:

I do have a question about entire male dogs though. Every single entire male dog I have seen in dog parks ends up getting into fights with other males. Particularly if there are two entire male dogs around. Do entire males bring out aggressiveness in other male dogs? Do they tend to be more aggressive towards other males, including other entire male dogs?

Or do the sorts of people who let their entire male dogs get into dust ups in dog parks have no bloody idea about managing dogs?

I'd not judge every entire male dog based on the sorts of behaviours you see in a dog park anymore than I'd judge a breed by the same standard.

My entire male dog has never had a fight in his life. He regularly runs with other entire males owned by responsible dog owners.

It's the breed/temperament/management mix that needs to be considered as a whole. Some entire males will challenge others.. but not all.

ETA: There are 9 entire male dogs in this photo.. and not a grumble out of any of them towards one another

That's a valid point poodlefan (and a great photo too). However, perhaps that does indicate that entire dogs are not for everyone. The average dog owner would be better off with desexed dogs.

Edited May 26, 2010 by Odin-Genie