Puppies Registration Papers

[emery]

How long does it take for the papers to come back???. My puppy was registered on the 31st of March with Dogsvic and the papers were back by the 14th of April when collecting the puppy. That's 14 days on the outside, but you can't get it done in 10 weeks

well as an example of how slow the cc's can be it took 17 weeks for my approved prefix to be sent to me.

Back on topic I hope your friend gets her papers for her pup

[SparkyTansy]

Maybe Ellz doesn't see her puppies as merchandise to be sold like you obviously do BB... Believe it or not, there are breeders out there that are breeding to improve the breed, not just pump out puppies to sell to the pet market.

I would happily say to hell with anyone that doesn't understand and accept the processes I choose for MY puppies (and they are my puppies until the money changes hands). I would rather sell a puppy to someone with whom I have a good relationship and a mutual trust than to someone who insists I register their pup early and give them the papers when they pick up the pup or they walk away. i would rather they walk away.

There are some bad breeders out there who will not give out papers despite their promises... and on a forum such as this where people come on asking for advice about their purebred puppies, those situations are going to be noticeable... right so there are two active threads at the moment about people that haven't received their papers. How many purebred dog owners are there on this forum who HAVE papers from their breeders who have had NO need for complaint, even if they didn't get their papers when they picked up the puppy? Certainly more than you would ever be willing to acknowledge BB...

Yes, many breeders do provide the papers at a later date with no issues, but what I am acknowledging is that collecting a puppy without the papers has a risk attached as some have found out. It's no consolation for the buyer that does get duded on their papers to say that the majority are ok and the system is great........does that help the owner with the now unpapered dog because their breeder has disappeared???. Trust systems have their weaknesses and if a breeder couldn't supply my papers when collecting the puppy, I would want some form of guarentee that I will definitely get them.

To assume that getting papers with the puppy doesn't happen and it's all too hard...........I have just collected a puppy 6 weeks ago with the papers, it does and can happen if the breeder tries an bit harder to satisfy their customers

Yes, it has a risk... you know, buyer beware and all that. I would consider the risk higher purchasing a puppy with papers ready to go because they breed only to supply the pet market and could be churning out lesser quality puppies because they aren't breeding to better the breed... but that's just me.

What happened in this situation is unfair... but who is to say that this person isn't at fault for not doing their research on ensuring the breeder was legit? Did they make sure they would get papers when they picked up the puppy? when they initially enquired, did they ask whether the puppy came with ANKC registration papers?

You just don't get it... but thank goodness I'll never be selling you a puppy... I think your ignorance on this topic leaves a lot of us much better off.

[OSoSwift]

I once bought a Mains rego'd puppy from a litter who were all show quaility - yes that was before I know better.

I could have bred from him and rego'd the puppies and so on and so forth.

Now anybody with even a small amount of knowledge would know that a 25 inch male Rottiweiler with entropian,OCD of the elbows, shoulders and hocks as well as HD and a really dodgy temperment would know that he should never have been bred, never mind been rego'd and able to produced rego'd puppies. He was of course desexed. He was euthed by 5 as it was inhumane to allow him to go on any longer.

But he was show quality as he was a Mains rego'd dog, and of course he was good enough to breed from, he had papers didn't he???

Anyway, has your friend found out any more as yet?

[emery]

I once bought a Mains rego'd puppy from a litter who were all show quaility - yes that was before I know better.

I could have bred from him and rego'd the puppies and so on and so forth.

Now anybody with even a small amount of knowledge would know that a 25 inch male Rottiweiler with entropian,OCD of the elbows, shoulders and hocks as well as HD and a really dodgy temperment would know that he should never have been bred, never mind been rego'd and able to produced rego'd puppies. He was of course desexed. He was euthed by 5 as it was inhumane to allow him to go on any longer.

But he was show quality as he was a Mains rego'd dog, and of course he was good enough to breed from, he had papers didn't he???

Anyway, has your friend found out any more as yet?

oh the poor boy and poor you. definately not breeding quality but of course to some he would of been

[nobul]

BB What point cant you understand in SOUTH AUSTRALIA WE CAN NOT SELL THE PUPPIES WITH THE PAPERS AT THE SAME TIME !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

We must transfer them OURSELVES to the NEW OWNER !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! and this can take weeks or even months at times so dont ever buy a puppy from SA

[oakway]

Oh my, just as well Black Bronson wasn't getting a puppy when the new computer was first installed, just remind me how long was it down.

I do remember something like 12 months no one had any papers or registration numbers.

Gee how long ago was that.

[Poodlecrazy]

The papers for my recent puppy which I got on collection were in the breeders name with the transfer signed over to me on the day. I then did the transfer, but at least I had the papers to transfer into my name, I guess similar to buying a car with the rego papers

Ummm sorry but that is against the rules of ANKC. The breeder must transfer the papers.

The breeder you got your dog from just saved themselves some money by having you pay for it and if they did this with every pup (especially in large litters) they are getting away with a small fortune.

There is also no way to know for sure that the new owners have done the transfer, which if not the dog is still technically in the breeders name and can be blamed if anything happens.

I give a copy of the pedigree in the pups folder and the original pedigree is sent out to them in a few weeks.

Have never had a problem doing it this way and have never had buyers question me.

Have been doing it this way for 16 years.

Leanne

Hey Leanne, I never knew that, have you got a reference or link handy you can post in here. I have always received my papers with the breeders signatures on the back in the mail for me to sign and send to Dogs NSW and had to pay for my own transfers of nearly $50 I think per dog....

Yep and we know the kind of breeders they are... the one's who whack everything on the main register , regarldess of them not being of show potential.

Not really the kind of breeder I aspire to be like.

No names need to be mentioned - "no breeders restrictions", at least the advert has changed from only dogs with major faults should be placed on limited register....

umm yes i am interested in this too. After the hell I went through to get my papers, it was sent to me with the breeders signature on the back and it has been left upto me to send it in

Do you live in Victoria? If so then it is up to you to transfer the papers in your own name and pay the fee, not the breeder. It is the breeders initial responsability to register the litter of course.

Yes I live in Victoria but the breeder lives in Queensland, the papers were posted to me from the breeder.

Ah I see. From QLD, the breeder should have sent them in to the CCCQ and the CCCQ send them to you.

hmm so what should I do in this instance? Can I just send them in myself? I do not think its fair that I should fork out more money considering I have already been ripped off but its been such a bad situation that I really do not have the energy to get into another mess

You need to complain to CCCQ here in SA we have to transfer ownership and it only takes one person to complain

if we haven't and we have answer to Dogs SA

[nickojoy]

Yes, many breeders do provide the papers at a later date with no issues, but what I am acknowledging is that collecting a puppy without the papers has a risk attached as some have found out. It's no consolation for the buyer that does get duded on their papers to say that the majority are ok and the system is great........does that help the owner with the now unpapered dog because their breeder has disappeared???. Trust systems have their weaknesses and if a breeder couldn't supply my papers when collecting the puppy, I would want some form of guarentee that I will definitely get them.

To assume that getting papers with the puppy doesn't happen and it's all too hard...........I have just collected a puppy 6 weeks ago with the papers, it does and can happen if the breeder tries an bit harder to satisfy their customers

Risk is you as a buyer NOT doing your research.... like buying a puppy with the parents not health tested or you not given papers for the tests from the parents! If you haven't got the time to research and find a ethical breeder.

If they promise you papers, GET IT IN WRITING in a contract.

You as a buyer have the rights to see the breeders prefix papers and membership details of the CC of the state they are in.

What I said isn't going to get papers for the pup, but seriously people need to research.... I Read the breeders section all the time about emails and puppy inquiries. They get emails daily asking HOW MUCH?, not are the parents tested? What are their temps like? Will the pups be on main or limited register? Are they suitable for showing? Is there limitations on the sales? How much grooming is involved? What age will they be fully grown? Would you recommend this breed with young kids?

BB I think it is time for you to do your research....

[Black Bronson]

Maybe Ellz doesn't see her puppies as merchandise to be sold like you obviously do BB... Believe it or not, there are breeders out there that are breeding to improve the breed, not just pump out puppies to sell to the pet market.

I would happily say to hell with anyone that doesn't understand and accept the processes I choose for MY puppies (and they are my puppies until the money changes hands). I would rather sell a puppy to someone with whom I have a good relationship and a mutual trust than to someone who insists I register their pup early and give them the papers when they pick up the pup or they walk away. i would rather they walk away.

There are some bad breeders out there who will not give out papers despite their promises... and on a forum such as this where people come on asking for advice about their purebred puppies, those situations are going to be noticeable... right so there are two active threads at the moment about people that haven't received their papers. How many purebred dog owners are there on this forum who HAVE papers from their breeders who have had NO need for complaint, even if they didn't get their papers when they picked up the puppy? Certainly more than you would ever be willing to acknowledge BB...

Yes, many breeders do provide the papers at a later date with no issues, but what I am acknowledging is that collecting a puppy without the papers has a risk attached as some have found out. It's no consolation for the buyer that does get duded on their papers to say that the majority are ok and the system is great........does that help the owner with the now unpapered dog because their breeder has disappeared???. Trust systems have their weaknesses and if a breeder couldn't supply my papers when collecting the puppy, I would want some form of guarentee that I will definitely get them.

To assume that getting papers with the puppy doesn't happen and it's all too hard...........I have just collected a puppy 6 weeks ago with the papers, it does and can happen if the breeder tries an bit harder to satisfy their customers

Yes, it has a risk... you know, buyer beware and all that. I would consider the risk higher purchasing a puppy with papers ready to go because they breed only to supply the pet market and could be churning out lesser quality puppies because they aren't breeding to better the breed... but that's just me.

What happened in this situation is unfair... but who is to say that this person isn't at fault for not doing their research on ensuring the breeder was legit? Did they make sure they would get papers when they picked up the puppy? when they initially enquired, did they ask whether the puppy came with ANKC registration papers?

You just don't get it... but thank goodness I'll never be selling you a puppy... I think your ignorance on this topic leaves a lot of us much better off.

What a load of rubbish telling people that breeders who supply papers with their puppies are pet market suppliers...........where did you get that nonesence from People are complaining about not getting papers which is what the thread is all about

[Wazzat Xolo]

Yep and we know the kind of breeders they are... the one's who whack everything on the main register , regarldess of them not being of show potential.

Not really the kind of breeder I aspire to be like.

They could actually whack them all on limited then upgrade to main when they have a proper insight into the dog's quality at a more mature age than 8 weeks.

ahh why bother just BANG em all on main, actually why bother doing anything, just whack em anywhere, after all its a business transaction,

actually can they be express posted ? too ?

[Black Bronson]

BB views buying a dog the same way he/she views buying a car or refridgerator. No point reasoning with people like that. I am not interested in people who view dogs in this regard. I doubt many here would even let you have a puppy from them the way you carry on.

There are plenty in my breed who churn out the litters, sell them all on mains register and charge a fortune. So YAY for you for getting your papers and on mains . Maybe your friend up the road wants to use your dog. You have no idea of it's quality and you have no idea of your own dogs quality, Your not a breeder and you don't show, but it must be good because it's on mains register right? you will get a couple hundred bucks or a couple slabs of beer for the stud fee. Not bad for buying a pet with mains register huh?

Why do you even come on here BB? you don't breed, you havn't owned many dogs yet you know it all. You have all the answers and the people that have bred dogs for decades obviously know nothing. You don't get the fact that the breeders on here don't breed dogs as a business. We are not here for "the consumer". We don't have end of year sales or discounts for cash. We breed for ourselves when we want a show dog and provide happy healthy pet pups for grateful people who want a puppy of their chosen breed.

type....edit...delete...type...edit...delete I'm outy on this thread to. I don't suffer fools gladly

You are missing the thread Whippets, it's about getting duded with your papers and all that's really happening here is a spray of arrogance towards people that have been caught with unethical practices. No one arguing on this thread breeds dogs that I have any interest in whatsoever, and I can tell you that I have no interest in dealing with breeders who treat their buyers with contempt either. Some of the comments from breeders are disgraceful and personally I hope that any prospective buyers are taking note of who not to deal with unless they want to be jumping through hoops and treated like a second class citizens waiting for their papers to arrive.

[Black Bronson]

Yep and we know the kind of breeders they are... the one's who whack everything on the main register , regarldess of them not being of show potential.

Not really the kind of breeder I aspire to be like.

They could actually whack them all on limited then upgrade to main when they have a proper insight into the dog's quality at a more mature age than 8 weeks.

ahh why bother just BANG em all on main, actually why bother doing anything, just whack em anywhere, after all its a business transaction,

actually can they be express posted ? too ?

You could always give them away for free and eliminate the business transaction

[Black Bronson]

Yes, many breeders do provide the papers at a later date with no issues, but what I am acknowledging is that collecting a puppy without the papers has a risk attached as some have found out. It's no consolation for the buyer that does get duded on their papers to say that the majority are ok and the system is great........does that help the owner with the now unpapered dog because their breeder has disappeared???. Trust systems have their weaknesses and if a breeder couldn't supply my papers when collecting the puppy, I would want some form of guarentee that I will definitely get them.

To assume that getting papers with the puppy doesn't happen and it's all too hard...........I have just collected a puppy 6 weeks ago with the papers, it does and can happen if the breeder tries an bit harder to satisfy their customers

Risk is you as a buyer NOT doing your research.... like buying a puppy with the parents not health tested or you not given papers for the tests from the parents! If you haven't got the time to research and find a ethical breeder.

If they promise you papers, GET IT IN WRITING in a contract.

You as a buyer have the rights to see the breeders prefix papers and membership details of the CC of the state they are in.

What I said isn't going to get papers for the pup, but seriously people need to research.... I Read the breeders section all the time about emails and puppy inquiries. They get emails daily asking HOW MUCH?, not are the parents tested? What are their temps like? Will the pups be on main or limited register? Are they suitable for showing? Is there limitations on the sales? How much grooming is involved? What age will they be fully grown? Would you recommend this breed with young kids?

BB I think it is time for you to do your research....

I don't get caught Nickojoy and I do plenty of research to find the right breeder with the dogs I require. What I have found recently though, the breeders with the "attitude" and all the restrictions actually don't have the best dogs, and think they are too good to keep working at it hard enough and the more humble enthusiastic breeders are passing them by

[Wazzat Xolo]

Yep and we know the kind of breeders they are... the one's who whack everything on the main register , regarldess of them not being of show potential.

Not really the kind of breeder I aspire to be like.

They could actually whack them all on limited then upgrade to main when they have a proper insight into the dog's quality at a more mature age than 8 weeks.

ahh why bother just BANG em all on main, actually why bother doing anything, just whack em anywhere, after all its a business transaction,

actually can they be express posted ? too ?

You could always give them away for free and eliminate the business transaction

I will be, in fact I am hoping I have quality pups to showcase this breed in Australia in every state, BUT I know my dogs are not business transactions, they are the start of a new beginning in a breed I care very much for and a monetary value on the dogs is not important, the quality and education of the public far outweighs any $$ value that anyone could place on them.

I am proud I have attitude, and I am proud I have restrictions and one day I hope to be able to prove I have the best dogs in many ways, but that is a hrad road of work that I am prepared to put in, ATTITUDE and all.

PS If people dont like the ATTITUDE, you are so right BB they can bugger off and get a puppy elsewhere, no skin off my nose!

Edited May 27, 2010 by Wazzat Xolo

[WreckitWhippet]

Oh my, just as well Black Bronson wasn't getting a puppy when the new computer was first installed, just remind me how long was it down.

I do remember something like 12 months no one had any papers or registration numbers.

Gee how long ago was that.

I was wondering if anyone would remember those days, it took forever to get your rego papers and applying for a prefix was a lovely 6 month wait.

[Tansy]

I'm another that likes to wait to the last minute to make final decisions on Main or Limit, but I have to give a big thumbs up to Dogs NSW express processing. Yes, it costs more, but I generally get my papers within 24 hours (for example, fax them through on a Monday, the papers are in my letterbox on Tuesday morning AND I'm in a regional area). I always use this service and I've never had a problem (other probs with Dogs NSW processing, but never litters).

I think it's nice to send the papers home with the pups as part of their puppy packs. It's such an exciting time for puppy owners, I like them to have their 'birth certificates' in their packs. I know in other states this may not be possible, but I don't find it hard in NSW.

I have to say I was quite shocked in a discussion with others in my breed a while back where several said they do not give papers to puppy buyers. These are not 'dodgy' breeders and all the puppies are registered, but the breeders retain the papers. They were worried about puppy buyers doing something dodgy with the papers (such as forging signitures to upgrade from Limit to Main), but I feel strongly that all registered breeders should be proud to supply papers with their pups.

[stormie]

You are missing the thread Whippets, it's about getting duded with your papers and all that's really happening here is a spray of arrogance towards people that have been caught with unethical practices. No one arguing on this thread breeds dogs that I have any interest in whatsoever, and I can tell you that I have no interest in dealing with breeders who treat their buyers with contempt either. Some of the comments from breeders are disgraceful and personally I hope that any prospective buyers are taking note of who not to deal with unless they want to be jumping through hoops and treated like a second class citizens waiting for their papers to arrive.

Thing is, BB, is that I'm one of those people who will, one day, again be a prospective buyer and I can say without a doubt, 100%, that I will be going with/staying with a breeder who has restrictions, limitations etc - everything you say people should stay away from. I have no problem with waiting for papers if I need to, because I'll have done my research into the breeder, have established a relationship and know I won't be getting 'duped'.

And I can tell you I will be avoiding any breeder who puts all their puppies on main and sells to anything and anyone. We have enough breeders like that in our breed, who pump out puppies and put them all on main, feeding the BYB industry and amateur breeders.

[Starkehre]

I got my pups papers the day we collected him, he is on the limited register. If a breeder wants to they can then upgrade the dog to the main register.

Exactly Papers are better in the hand than chasing a breeder who's phone is disconnected

I agree and from his papers we can see who his parents are and that they have been hip scored etc, if you are not given those papers you have no proof of who the parents are etc. Personally i would not leave with the puppy if I didnt have the papers.

A GOOD breeder will have already given you a pedigree in lieu of the outstanding registration papers with a promise to forward the papers when they arrived from the controlling body. In addition, you would have had copies of parents hip scores and health testing ALREADY in a folder or booklet and THESE would have been given to a purchaser at the time the puppy left home.

For example. My litter of 9 Staffordshire Bull Terrier puppies started leaving home at the age of 10 weeks. Their registration papers were not back from the Tas Canine Association BUT they left home with a 50 page folder full of dietary information, a TEN generation pedigree, photocopies of their parents health tests, their microchipping paperwork and assorted other information. Their papers were forwarded as soon as they arrived back.

Does that make me a bad breeder? Or somebody who is deliberately withholding papers or do I hang onto the puppies until 13/14/15 weeks of age and THEN let them go to their new homes with their pedigree papers which are apparently THE most important thing about the puppy? I think not. Because if I hang onto my puppies for that long, the next thing you'll read is the new owner coming onto DOL (or similar forums) with behavioural problems because their puppy is no longer a malleable baby and they are having trouble trying to settle it into its new home.

Damned if you do or damned if you don't.

How long does it take for the papers to come back???. My puppy was registered on the 31st of March with Dogsvic and the papers were back by the 14th of April when collecting the puppy. That's 14 days on the outside, but you can't get it done in 10 weeks

I chose NOT to get it done in 10 weeks. I register everything except what I keep for myself on Limited Registration. They are my puppies and I choose what I keep first. I am in no particular hurry to get it done and as I have already said, ANKC rules say that it can be done up to 18 months of age. Either a puppy purchaser trusts me, or they go somewhere else. Simple as that.

Editing to add: And once again, as I have said from a previous thread. If you insist upon just selecting bits and pieces from people's responses, then please do them the courtesy of doing so in context rather than just selecting ONE sentence that appeals to you and ignoring the relevant information from around it.

You are being deliberately obtuse and it is very little wonder that your responses receive very little respect from other posters.

Argumentative for the sake of being argumentative.

Many have already explained that they do not register til the pups are of an age to make a final decision on what they are keeping.

So, I'm not the only one that whenever I see a post by BB, I roll my eyes?? .... and I don't mean you Bilbo Baggins

Edited May 27, 2010 by dyzney

[Ozstar]

BB make sure you never buy a dog from SA as you still don't seem to understand that we can not give you the papers with the pup. Breeders in SA must send the papers into DogsSA to be transferred into the new owners name, therefore the new owners recieve them in the post after they have picked up their pup.

Not sure how else to say this so you understand.

Leanne

Edited May 27, 2010 by Ozstar Kennels

[cavNrott]

Oh my, just as well Black Bronson wasn't getting a puppy when the new computer was first installed, just remind me how long was it down.

I do remember something like 12 months no one had any papers or registration numbers.

Gee how long ago was that.

I was given the registered papers in a large puppy pack booklet when most of my pups were ready to go home. However I'm not interested in showing or breeding so I'm more than happy with a well bred pup on the limited register from health tested parents. It wouldn't have bothered me if the papers were not available at that time because I knew the blood lines and ancestry of the pups.

The dogs I have who are on the main register were older when they came home and the papers were already in.

There was one pup some years back that took almost 8 months to get papers from the breeder.

To get to the point of me quoting oakway here. If one or more of your puppy buyers was interested in showing a nice pup they bought from you they wouldn't be able to until the papers arrived some 12 months later. Wouldn't that hold back the pup's show career?