Puppy K9 Problem

[donk]

gday all

this is my first post and i would like to say what a great site.my problem is im looking at a litter of amstaff pups,they are now five weeks old, there is only four pups in the litter and all boys .when i was talking to the breeder the other day he told me that with two of the pups their mouths has gone.when i asked him what he meant by that, he told me that they had inverted k9s.i was after a show quality pup to show in the future and he told me that he has know their mouth to come back and fix its self.not to sure of this myself but he reckons he has seen it happen.with two out of four pups with this problem should i stay away from this litter or is he right in what he said.they are awesome looking pups other than the inverted k9 problem.hope someone can help as im so unsure what to do.

thanks donk

[tyra2007]

Ok I am no expert on "AmStaff's"

but isn't that just another name for Pit Bulls??

[dog geek]

Hiya - you are right this is a great place for advice.

I am no expert either but since no one else has replied yet:

I do know that if this breeder is registered with the ANKC or state canine associations, and shows their dogs (actually shows, with physical evidence, like pix or ribbons etc), then chances are the dogs ARE Am Staffs. And that means they are not pit bulls.

I also know from my years of lurking on the forums, that puppy jaws will sometimes grow out of sync with each other - but that they can indeed get back into the proper sequence (ie correct bite for Am Staffs).

If this breeder is experienced, and has had this bloodline for long enough, they can estimate whether the pups' teeth are likely to self-correct. You could try asking the breeder what they think is likely to happen.

Cheers, I recommend you stick around and ask lots and lots of questions on here in the various forums, you can learn the most interesting stuff!!!

[donk]

not to sure what your reply has to do with my problem tyra2007 but thanks anyway.

thanks dog geek for your reply. hopefully a few more members may also help me out with some advice as im not sure what to do and time is running out where i need to make a decision on what i want to do.

ta donk

Edited May 21, 2010 by donk

[Red Fox]

Did the breeder say how long it would take for the jaw to self correct? (if it does at all) How well do you know the lines? Is the breeder well known and well established? Do they show their dogs? And if so are they successful?

I'm not involved in showing or breeding so have limited knowledge of what you would look for in a show puppy - but I'd think those things things to be an important starting point.

Perhaps post this question in the breeders forum?

[oakway]

Ok I am no expert on "AmStaff's"

but isn't that just another name for Pit Bulls??

No it is not. The breed is American Staffordshire Terrier and the dogs papers will say so.

[Stitch]

If you are interested in successfully showing your dog you need to do your homework way before you buy a pup.

Go to the dog shows and see who is winning in your desired breed. Find out more about the breed from the exhibitors and also by doing your own research.

Read, read, read!!!

You will not be able to become an expert overnight but you can learn quite a bit if you so desire.

Once you have bought a pup you then have to live with it even though it may not be a very good example of the breed.

This is OK if you just want a pet but a successful show dog is another thing altogether!

[donk]

thanks for the advice all.by the sounds of it he may be right in saying its mouth could come back.hope some of the experts might be able give some advice

ta donk

[alpha bet]

Firstly check to make sure that they will have registration with the state body so that you can show - also ensure that they will have Main Registration and not Limit Registration.

Dont even consider these pups until you have checked and looked at some other litters - Perhaps review this litter when they are 8 weeks old or so then check their teeth again. And try to take someone with you who has some experience. Perhaps even a vet check would be a good idea as the vet can give you a professional opinion of the bites. Personally I would be very cautious with the litter as incorrect bites can be such a problem for the future.

[Sandra777]

Converging canines are a problem in a lot of breeds.

I have Staffords which have this problem to a scary degree and have only had a very very few adults with converging canines in the litters I have bred over the last 32 years - but in every single case the dog's baby canines were converging so personally I wouldn't waste my time and emotions on a pup with converging baby canines.

No doubt in some cases they can come right and I'm not saying for a second that the breeder is lying, just that IME the chances of it happening are a heck of a lot smaller than the chances of it not happening. If there is a pup in the litter with correct canines which is show potential and you are buying a show dog not a prospective breeding animal then there's no reason to be all that concerned about buying another puppy from the litter - but if you are hoping to one day breed from your pup (all other things being OK of course) then you'd want to do a whole lot more research into the bites of the ancestors before committing to a pup from a litter where 1/2 the litter has bad mouths already.

Amstaffs aren't exactly rare, so perhaps you can keep on looking.

[becks]

I would be looking at the pups with correct mouths if you are planning to show. (otherwise you could end up having to pay for corrective surgery on the teeth).

If you are planning to breed in the future, then I would be looking at other litters.

[Erny]

I've heard of "undershot" and "overshot" jaws, but never heard of "converging canines". So I googled.

Came up with THIS article and was interested to read that :

... converging canine teeth are slowly creeping into the breed and could be a problem for the future. The urgency of breeding away from converging canine teeth cannot be overstressed as this is a dental fault which can cause both physical damage and pain in severe instances as the teeth may bore into the roof of the mouth if they are not removed.

Apparently the article comes out of an old version of "Dog World" from somewhere, but was republished in a publication called "Quinlent" as recently as this month.

As I mentioned, I'd not heard of this condition myself until it was raised in this thread, and I am by no means knowledgeable about breeding Staffies, but going by the above it would sound that converging canines is a heritable condition rather than a developmental issue, so I'd be really concerned if the puppy already had converging canines.

But that's just me and I would suggest that these are my "thoughts" ..... as I do not believe they would qualify as "opinion".

Edited May 23, 2010 by Erny

[Erny]

I would be looking at the pups with correct mouths if you are planning to show. (otherwise you could end up having to pay for corrective surgery on the teeth).

If you are planning to breed in the future, then I would be looking at other litters.

Would it be right to show a dog who has had corrective surgery for something that (by the sounds of it .... please refer my post above) is heritable?

[OSoSwift]

Would it be right to show a dog who has had corrective surgery for something that (by the sounds of it .... please refer my post above) is heritable?

You are not allowed to show any dog that has had a 'cosmetic" procedure performed - which includes altering bites and teeth.

I don't know a lot about AmStaffs, but I have heard of this breeds jaws taking a while to catch up and be a scissor bite. I would be concerned if I was looking at showing the puppy. My general rule to myself is not not buy a dog with a know fault/potential fault. Enough things can potentially go wrong as it is to make a dog unable to be shown, without knowingly buying one with a fault.

You may get a puppy with perfect teeth and it ends up under/over shot however, you are well ahead of the game if you start off with everything in the right place to begin with

[becks]

I would be looking at the pups with correct mouths if you are planning to show. (otherwise you could end up having to pay for corrective surgery on the teeth).

If you are planning to breed in the future, then I would be looking at other litters.

Would it be right to show a dog who has had corrective surgery for something that (by the sounds of it .... please refer my post above) is heritable?

I wasn't suggesting that surgery be done to correct a mouth for showing, only that surgery could be an option to correct the mouth on these pups with converging canines.

[Erny]

I don't know a lot about AmStaffs, but I have heard of this breeds jaws taking a while to catch up and be a scissor bite.

But that's the undershot/overshot jaw 'problem', isn't it? At one stage in his early life, my boy's growth rate affected his jaw and ergo his teeth alignment. It was only out marginally though and his lower jaw and upper jaw caught up with each other fairly soon.

But this "converging canines" sounds very, very different.

[Sandra777]

Undershot, overshot, level and scissor bite dogs can all have converging canines or perfect canines.

[Erny]

Undershot, overshot, level and scissor bite dogs can all have converging canines or perfect canines.

That's what I'm saying (sort of). That it's not just about undershot or overshot. Either of those could be absent. I just didn't want the OP to believe/presume from what is being said that the point of focus is only undershot/overshot.

[OSoSwift]

I don't know a lot about AmStaffs, but I have heard of this breeds jaws taking a while to catch up and be a scissor bite.

But that's the undershot/overshot jaw 'problem', isn't it? At one stage in his early life, my boy's growth rate affected his jaw and ergo his teeth alignment. It was only out marginally though and his lower jaw and upper jaw caught up with each other fairly soon.

But this "converging canines" sounds very, very different.

Yes it is in relation to over/under shot, the only one I have any knowledge of. I have no idea if converging canines can correct themselves.

[donk]

thanks for all the good feedbacks guys its been really helpfull.im not to sure ill have to ask if the bite is ok or is it just the k9 problem.

ta donk