Does Desexing Really Make A Difference

[Janba]

Put your clicker training books away Huski and do a training session with us and I will change your mind very quickly how to handle a security dog driven by civil aggression and fighting drive at it's peak :D

The last time I had anything to do with dogs PROPERLY trained in manwork (and it was a long time ago) the dogs weren't driven by agression and the desire to fight, but then I suppose I am behind the times in that sort of training

[Black Bronson]

Put your clicker training books away Huski and do a training session with us and I will change your mind very quickly how to handle a security dog driven by civil aggression and fighting drive at it's peak :p

Why are you so condescending? I don't even use a clicker. I have had the privilege of working with trainers who have vast experience, much more than you do, with working security/PP/police dogs etc and I am more than confident their advice and knowledge regarding aggression in dogs is sound.

I am not saying that handling a dog exhibiting peak aggression is impossible, but talking about the process you would undergo to train aggressive dogs. I'm not talking about security dogs driven by civil aggression either. Do you honestly think that waiting until an aggressive dog is in drive peak, functioning from the lower cortex of the brain, is really the optimum time to teach the dog it has options other than aggression?

The dog has probably never appreciated the effects of an aversive in it's life and could do with a couple of good corrections with that behaviour, don't you think???.

Considering the trainer the OP is consulting with has taught me how to deliver appropriate corrections to my own dogs I can assure you that you are talking utter crap. Why are you arguing and questioning the people who actually know this trainer in real life? You can't possible have a clue what kind of trainer they are from one statement, regarding avoiding situations where the kids could get hurt, in this thread.

What's the OP on here asking advice for when all the right things are supposedly being addressed correctly???. If it was all working well (which obviously it's not), there would be no reason to post about it???. Snapping at and mouthing the kids is a serious misbehaviour IMO that needs to be stopped FAST and it's not a behaviour I would mess around with given the dangerous level that it could escalate to. I would hang a dog up for that..........choke it out and teach the dog that aggression towards anything results in a severe unpleasant correction it will remember. Or, you could mess around with behaviour until the dog bites the kids and send it to rainbow bridge as the other corrective measure ;)

Bloody hell BB, you are so slap bang about everything. I for one certainly dont take your posts seriously considering you think a well behaved, social obedient GSD is faulty.

TO the OP, I have kids not as old as yours and I admire the work you have put in. If it was me with my young tribe I would consider re homing as I have too many kids coming and going in my house from 0-5.

Kids often dont remember all the rules and unless your eyes are on interactions permanently I'd consider the situation too unsafe. Obviously my lot are a lot younger.

Good on you and I hope the situation eases up for you.

Should we take your advice seriously Chewbacca.........re-home the dog and give the problem to someone else :D I do agree it would correct the problem though, you are right Is the OP's dog a GSD???.

[OSoSwift]

Put your clicker training books away Huski and do a training session with us and I will change your mind very quickly how to handle a security dog driven by civil aggression and fighting drive at it's peak :D

Why are you so condescending? I don't even use a clicker. I have had the privilege of working with trainers who have vast experience, much more than you do, with working security/PP/police dogs etc and I am more than confident their advice and knowledge regarding aggression in dogs is sound.

I am not saying that handling a dog exhibiting peak aggression is impossible, but talking about the process you would undergo to train aggressive dogs. I'm not talking about security dogs driven by civil aggression either. Do you honestly think that waiting until an aggressive dog is in drive peak, functioning from the lower cortex of the brain, is really the optimum time to teach the dog it has options other than aggression?

The dog has probably never appreciated the effects of an aversive in it's life and could do with a couple of good corrections with that behaviour, don't you think???.

Considering the trainer the OP is consulting with has taught me how to deliver appropriate corrections to my own dogs I can assure you that you are talking utter crap. Why are you arguing and questioning the people who actually know this trainer in real life? You can't possible have a clue what kind of trainer they are from one statement, regarding avoiding situations where the kids could get hurt, in this thread.

What's the OP on here asking advice for when all the right things are supposedly being addressed correctly???. If it was all working well (which obviously it's not), there would be no reason to post about it???. Snapping at and mouthing the kids is a serious misbehaviour IMO that needs to be stopped FAST and it's not a behaviour I would mess around with given the dangerous level that it could escalate to. I would hang a dog up for that..........choke it out and teach the dog that aggression towards anything results in a severe unpleasant correction it will remember. Or, you could mess around with behaviour until the dog bites the kids and send it to rainbow bridge as an alternative corrective measure

I think a trainer that has any idea what they are doing would not need to go so far as stinging a dog up - I know it was done........about 30 years ago, but seriously that is what you deem the correct way to deal with it.

I am thankful I did not do that my my young Dobe who had been harassed by small children, than started seeing them as something to gorwl at. Amazingly I managed to get her to the point she liked children and didn't so much as lick them without stringing her up. Oh and I also had never heard of clicker training at that stage.

I am glad the trainers I know are not into stringing dogs up as a solution for the dogs training issues

No...........why mess around and start off soft then increase the corrective measure when the soft approach isn't working???. Snapping at the kids with aggression isn't just naughty play, it needs to be knocked on the head once and for all unless you would prefer to gamble with a kids disfigured face when you get it wrong. Go in hard, correct the misbehaviour and get it done and dusted and move on.

Same goes for the dog that pulls on the leash...........6 months later after every traditional collar, head collar and harness has been tried unsuccessfully, the dog ends up on a prong. If it's a heavy puller, put in on a prong straight up and teach it how to walk nicely in 20 minutes. Too much messing around and productive training time being wasted trying to avoid an aversive as some dogs need aversive measures, and a good trainer knows when and where an aversive is best.

There is a wide gap between a CORRECTION and stringing a dog up and cutting it's air off. a VERY LARGE GAP!

I have had Rotti's, Dobermann's, A Stafford and currently Whippets. Interestingly I have never had to use any head collars or prongs. I did use Check chains years ago, but now use martingales mainly due to the fact a Whippet has a skinny head and I don't want them to back out of a collar at an inappropriate time - not that they have every tried.

All of my dogs did and do walk well on lead, none need to wear anything other than a flat collar or with my Whips a martingale. Why not teach the dog correctly the first time instead of resorting to different devices (yes I know some dogs do need them and I have no problem with that).

I have also walked 4 dogs with a pram quite easily in the past, all on flat or martingale collars. I am not a "positive only and no other way" training person and there are some situations that require adversives.

But hey what would I know.

I am stepping away because I can see that there is no educating some people.

[Black Bronson]

Huski isn't training the dog, nor has she given the OP particular suggestions she has mearly suggested that the behaviouralist does actually know what she is talking about. Maybe the behaviouralist has got experience with dogs and situations as per the OP. There are many people around who do have experience and are very good at working with such dogs.

What Huski is doing, is telling the OP it's all good and the trainer is doing a great job...........I disagree, I think the trainer is messing around with a dangerous situation and doesn't know how to correct it effectively.........just my opinion :D

And you are basing that on ONE brief comment that about a behaviour that has just resurfaced. As Cosmolo posted earlier, sometimes there are no quick fixes for behaviourial problems and it's not about the dog but what the family and owner is capable of doing. You have no idea how the OP has been told to correct the dog for this behaviour, you have no idea the extent of the training program the dog is on, nor what the actual problem is.

I know the trainer in real life, I have seen her work with dogs including my own, I am 110% confident of her ability to help the OP. You haven't even seen the dog, yet this trainer has, how can you possibly think you know what the problem is or how best to fix it when all you have to go on are a couple of posts in an internet forum? How about you come meet the dog, and the trainer, and then share with us your "expert" opinion?

I did ask the question how the OP was taught to handle the situation to get a clearer picture...........but haven't had an answer yet???. How can anyone on the forum get a clear picture of the situation anyway, we are all in the same boat offering an opnion upon what the OP has told us in the thread If you are 110% confident that the trainer will eventually sort the dog out great, but just keep in mind the seriousness of dogs snapping at kids and where this behaviour can esculate if not corrected effectively. Sounds like the dog is also DA........so it has a few aggression issues in that case perhaps???.

My point is this Huski, never mind about trying to avoiding negative reinforcement when correcting aggressive misbehaviour towards kids. If it needs to be adminsitered for the kid's saftey, so be it. Let's get the priorities straight in this situation ;)

[~Shepherd~]

Put your clicker training books away Huski and do a training session with us and I will change your mind very quickly how to handle a security dog driven by civil aggression and fighting drive at it's peak ;)

Why are you so condescending? I don't even use a clicker. I have had the privilege of working with trainers who have vast experience, much more than you do, with working security/PP/police dogs etc and I am more than confident their advice and knowledge regarding aggression in dogs is sound.

I am not saying that handling a dog exhibiting peak aggression is impossible, but talking about the process you would undergo to train aggressive dogs. I'm not talking about security dogs driven by civil aggression either. Do you honestly think that waiting until an aggressive dog is in drive peak, functioning from the lower cortex of the brain, is really the optimum time to teach the dog it has options other than aggression?

The dog has probably never appreciated the effects of an aversive in it's life and could do with a couple of good corrections with that behaviour, don't you think???.

Considering the trainer the OP is consulting with has taught me how to deliver appropriate corrections to my own dogs I can assure you that you are talking utter crap. Why are you arguing and questioning the people who actually know this trainer in real life? You can't possible have a clue what kind of trainer they are from one statement, regarding avoiding situations where the kids could get hurt, in this thread.

What's the OP on here asking advice for when all the right things are supposedly being addressed correctly???. If it was all working well (which obviously it's not), there would be no reason to post about it???. Snapping at and mouthing the kids is a serious misbehaviour IMO that needs to be stopped FAST and it's not a behaviour I would mess around with given the dangerous level that it could escalate to. I would hang a dog up for that..........choke it out and teach the dog that aggression towards anything results in a severe unpleasant correction it will remember. Or, you could mess around with behaviour until the dog bites the kids and send it to rainbow bridge as the other corrective measure :p

Bloody hell BB, you are so slap bang about everything. I for one certainly dont take your posts seriously considering you think a well behaved, social obedient GSD is faulty.

TO the OP, I have kids not as old as yours and I admire the work you have put in. If it was me with my young tribe I would consider re homing as I have too many kids coming and going in my house from 0-5.

Kids often dont remember all the rules and unless your eyes are on interactions permanently I'd consider the situation too unsafe. Obviously my lot are a lot younger.

Good on you and I hope the situation eases up for you.

Should we take your advice seriously Chewbacca.........re-home the dog and give the problem to someone else ;) I do agree it would correct the problem though, you are right Is the OP's dog a GSD???.

Yep, my kids are more important than my dogs. My dogs are 100% part of this family and are indoor dogs also, however one false move from either my kids or dogs that causes an ongoing dangerous issue, then its seeya later dogs.

I want to live in harmony with my animals and family and have always done so. Havent had to rehome anything yet as I have been fortunate in having 4 very steady dogs in my life and 2 very well behaved children.

Its the luck of the draw BB. Just fortunate my 'faulty' High prey drive bombproof GSD is the perfect KIDS dog :D

[Cosmolo]

I think the trainer does have their priorities straight- keeping the children SAFE while the dog has its attitude adjustment.

There are so many things that could go wrong with what you're suggesting BB- training techniques have changed for a reason or 3-

1- because we know that some things work better than simply choking dogs to create long lasting, quality behavioural change.

2- because dogs 'these days' are different to the dogs of 30-40 years ago. Very few dogs that are high drive, hard nerved dogs and this increases the potential for use of excessive harsh corrections to have negactive fallout

3- owners are different 'these days'. Time poor, less experienced with dogs in many cases etc.

I like appropriate corrections, i like blocking behaviour with compulsion when needed as a step in a multi step process of teaching the dog what to do. I don't advocate what you're suggesting though and have never done it in training.

[huski]

: If you are 110% confident that the trainer will eventually sort the dog out great, but just keep in mind the seriousness of dogs snapping at kids and where this behaviour can esculate if not corrected effectively. Sounds like the dog is also DA........so it has a few aggression issues in that case perhaps???.

You are assuming a lot there, BB. A dog that gets excited when it sees other dogs is not DA. No one is questioning the seriousness of the dog mouthing at the kids, but there is not always a quick fix for behaviourial problems and how effectively they are managed relies on many factors, not just the dog, but the capability of the owner/family/etc/

My point is this Huski, never mind about trying to avoiding negative reinforcement when correcting aggressive misbehaviour towards kids. If it needs to be adminsitered for the kid's saftey, so be it. Let's get the priorities straight in this situation

No one has said that the dog should not be corrected, but that for the safety of the kids all efforts should be made to avoid putting them in a situation where the dog might act inappropriately.

Or do you think the OP should intentionally put her kids in a situation where the dog is going to bite the kids, so she can punish him??

[Black Bronson]

Put your clicker training books away Huski and do a training session with us and I will change your mind very quickly how to handle a security dog driven by civil aggression and fighting drive at it's peak :D

Why are you so condescending? I don't even use a clicker. I have had the privilege of working with trainers who have vast experience, much more than you do, with working security/PP/police dogs etc and I am more than confident their advice and knowledge regarding aggression in dogs is sound.

I am not saying that handling a dog exhibiting peak aggression is impossible, but talking about the process you would undergo to train aggressive dogs. I'm not talking about security dogs driven by civil aggression either. Do you honestly think that waiting until an aggressive dog is in drive peak, functioning from the lower cortex of the brain, is really the optimum time to teach the dog it has options other than aggression?

The dog has probably never appreciated the effects of an aversive in it's life and could do with a couple of good corrections with that behaviour, don't you think???.

Considering the trainer the OP is consulting with has taught me how to deliver appropriate corrections to my own dogs I can assure you that you are talking utter crap. Why are you arguing and questioning the people who actually know this trainer in real life? You can't possible have a clue what kind of trainer they are from one statement, regarding avoiding situations where the kids could get hurt, in this thread.

What's the OP on here asking advice for when all the right things are supposedly being addressed correctly???. If it was all working well (which obviously it's not), there would be no reason to post about it???. Snapping at and mouthing the kids is a serious misbehaviour IMO that needs to be stopped FAST and it's not a behaviour I would mess around with given the dangerous level that it could escalate to. I would hang a dog up for that..........choke it out and teach the dog that aggression towards anything results in a severe unpleasant correction it will remember. Or, you could mess around with behaviour until the dog bites the kids and send it to rainbow bridge as an alternative corrective measure

I think a trainer that has any idea what they are doing would not need to go so far as stinging a dog up - I know it was done........about 30 years ago, but seriously that is what you deem the correct way to deal with it.

I am thankful I did not do that my my young Dobe who had been harassed by small children, than started seeing them as something to gorwl at. Amazingly I managed to get her to the point she liked children and didn't so much as lick them without stringing her up. Oh and I also had never heard of clicker training at that stage.

I am glad the trainers I know are not into stringing dogs up as a solution for the dogs training issues

No...........why mess around and start off soft then increase the corrective measure when the soft approach isn't working???. Snapping at the kids with aggression isn't just naughty play, it needs to be knocked on the head once and for all unless you would prefer to gamble with a kids disfigured face when you get it wrong. Go in hard, correct the misbehaviour and get it done and dusted and move on.

Same goes for the dog that pulls on the leash...........6 months later after every traditional collar, head collar and harness has been tried unsuccessfully, the dog ends up on a prong. If it's a heavy puller, put in on a prong straight up and teach it how to walk nicely in 20 minutes. Too much messing around and productive training time being wasted trying to avoid an aversive as some dogs need aversive measures, and a good trainer knows when and where an aversive is best.

There is a wide gap between a CORRECTION and stringing a dog up and cutting it's air off. a VERY LARGE GAP!

I have had Rotti's, Dobermann's, A Stafford and currently Whippets. Interestingly I have never had to use any head collars or prongs. I did use Check chains years ago, but now use martingales mainly due to the fact a Whippet has a skinny head and I don't want them to back out of a collar at an inappropriate time - not that they have every tried.

All of my dogs did and do walk well on lead, none need to wear anything other than a flat collar or with my Whips a martingale. Why not teach the dog correctly the first time instead of resorting to different devices (yes I know some dogs do need them and I have no problem with that).

I have also walked 4 dogs with a pram quite easily in the past, all on flat or martingale collars. I am not a "positive only and no other way" training person and there are some situations that require adversives.

But hey what would I know.

I am stepping away because I can see that there is no educating some people.

Yes, from puppyhood it's best to teach the right way and a whole lot easier long term, but not all puppies are taught correctly which results in adolescent dogs of poor behaviour that need to be trained. Some dogs in the peak of drive especially aggressive reactions are totally uncontrollable where nothing other than blocking their ability to breath will make them submit. Half hearted corrections can agitiate the dog to higher levels of aggression so what ever the correction, it has to be severe enough to either gain the dog's attention or settle it down. It's matter of simply lifting the dogs front legs off the ground which can be achieved on a flat collar if high enough on the dogs neck...........were are not talking William Koehler style hoisting the dog up on a block and tackle until it passes out. It's not the big deal of ultimate cruelty that some like to make out it is. Simple effective air block that will stop the most viscious dog in it's tracks when it can't breath.

[Black Bronson]

'Chewbacca' date='21st May 2010 - 11:29 PM' post='4550381']

Its the luck of the draw BB. Just fortunate my 'faulty' High prey drive bombproof GSD is the perfect KIDS dog

My apology to the OP for going off topic briefly, I need to address this comment of Chewbacca's if I may???.

You are referring to a comment of mine in another thread Chewbacca............I am referring to a GSD's compliance with the breed standards which is not a claim that your GSD is not a good dog. A compliant GSD should be able to fulfill the role as a family pet as your's does along with the ability to work. If it can't pass a working test set out for the breed that many do unfortunately fail such a test, it's faulty to the breed standard is what I have said. Unless your GSD has a Schutzhund or Herding title and has been endurance tested, we don't know how it's overall compliance rates with the breed standard :D

Edited May 21, 2010 by Black Bronson

[Snowysal]

I havnt read through this whole thread but in answer to OP's topic question, in my over 50 years of living with dogs, cats, horses and others - without a doubt YES, and in a good and positive way for the animals sanity and happiness.

And in doing THAT your life beomes a whole lot easier and happily to cohabit with them too.

The only reason NOT to desex in my opinion include medical reasons(rare), showing and registered breeding.

Edited May 21, 2010 by Snowysal

[Black Bronson]

I think the trainer does have their priorities straight- keeping the children SAFE while the dog has its attitude adjustment.

There are so many things that could go wrong with what you're suggesting BB- training techniques have changed for a reason or 3-

1- because we know that some things work better than simply choking dogs to create long lasting, quality behavioural change.

2- because dogs 'these days' are different to the dogs of 30-40 years ago. Very few dogs that are high drive, hard nerved dogs and this increases the potential for use of excessive harsh corrections to have negactive fallout

3- owners are different 'these days'. Time poor, less experienced with dogs in many cases etc.

I like appropriate corrections, i like blocking behaviour with compulsion when needed as a step in a multi step process of teaching the dog what to do. I don't advocate what you're suggesting though and have never done it in training.

When you work with a dog, you get to feel where the dog is at in terms of it's temperament, hardness and nerve and you apply the level of correction that works for the particular dog which is the trainers job to determine. Yes, you can shut a dog down briefly applying an over hard correction, but truthfully the "fallout" IMO is over dramatised as to it's possible lasting effect. I have known just average dogs hit by cars and hung onto life by a thread, but the trauma and pain of being run over which is far greater trauma than a leash correction didn't turn these dogs into a neurotic mess by any means. Sure stopped a few getting near the road and chasing cars though

I began training in the 70's where often rolled up newspapers and a boot up the bum were the primary tools of the trade amoungst a few other methods along the way, but some of this anti-aversive at all cost theory at times is competely over the top I think.

[Black Bronson]

: If you are 110% confident that the trainer will eventually sort the dog out great, but just keep in mind the seriousness of dogs snapping at kids and where this behaviour can esculate if not corrected effectively. Sounds like the dog is also DA........so it has a few aggression issues in that case perhaps???.

You are assuming a lot there, BB. A dog that gets excited when it sees other dogs is not DA. No one is questioning the seriousness of the dog mouthing at the kids, but there is not always a quick fix for behaviourial problems and how effectively they are managed relies on many factors, not just the dog, but the capability of the owner/family/etc/

My point is this Huski, never mind about trying to avoiding negative reinforcement when correcting aggressive misbehaviour towards kids. If it needs to be adminsitered for the kid's saftey, so be it. Let's get the priorities straight in this situation

No one has said that the dog should not be corrected, but that for the safety of the kids all efforts should be made to avoid putting them in a situation where the dog might act inappropriately.

Or do you think the OP should intentionally put her kids in a situation where the dog is going to bite the kids, so she can punish him??

I would like to know the extent of the dog's aggression response, be it dominance, food, fear, dog etc to see where the behaviour is at. Personally I would muzzle and leash the dog whilst interacting with the kids and monitor closely what was happening. To administer corrections effectively, I would like to catch the dog attempting to snap or acting aggressively and work it from there.

[Bindii]

Woahhh how annoying and off topic can a thread get!!

My response to the OP - along with the training and advice that you're getting, I would desex the dog also. Just in the case that it is hormone driven it can only help. It may not make any difference at all, but considering you plan on having him done eventually I think getting him done now can only be positive.

The line about desexing "calming them down" is rubbish, but dominant behaviour such as what you've briefly described may well be driven by testosterone. It may have by now become a 'learned' habit which will require further training, but the sooner you stop the testosterone driving the behaviour, the better.

As i said, it may well not be what is causing the behaviour, but it wont hurt to try everything available to you and desexing is an easy or 'obvious' one.

Edited May 21, 2010 by Bindii

[Lucy's mama]

Someone mentioned wondering if he had been hurt by kids

/ I can assure you my children have not hurt him. We have always had pets and they are not rough or cruel with any of them.

He is NOT dog aggressive. He plays with dogs big and small. He has been growled at and he backs off, not fights. He will occasionally fence fight, but put in a yard with the same dog and it's all fun and games.

He has no problems giving over food or toys to anyone. He has always recieved something better in return and usually the original article back as well. I also used to play with his kibble as he was eating and pop nice treats into it at the same time. My son can sit down with an icecream and Banjo will watch every lick intently, but he doesn't try steal it.

I did not bring a dog home, put it in the back yard with the kids and hope for the best.

His behaviour happens when he is excited already. Yesterday he had been put outside by my partner at 5am whe he left or work, when my daughter let him in he was excited and bouncy. Encouraging calm is a part of his training program.

I did ask the question how the OP was taught to handle the situation to get a clearer picture...........but haven't had an answer yet???.

Ummm...yeah. I went and had a training session with the dog, a wine with my dad and put my kids to bed.

When Banjo does this I use a growly 'uh-uh' and put him outside or in his pen. Yeah, pretty weak now but it's carried over from him being a tiny 8 week old.

I'm off for kids activities now, so won't be replying till much later in the day.

[Beth.]

Hey Lucy's Mama...

I hope things get better with your boy - I was thinking along the same lines as Bindii - if you're going to get him desexed you might as well do it now, you never know, it may help a little, but it also might not... Thats probably not much help though, haha!!!!

Good luck with whatever you choose though!!!!

ETA: spelling and just letting people know i've changed usernames - was Beth86 but now LuvLottie....

Edited May 21, 2010 by LuvLottie

[Red Fox]

Not wanting to get involved in this debate at all BUT..

What would you suggest for the times when the adult is not there, not close at hand etc?

I would suggest that when it comes to kids and dogs that an adult is ALWAYS there and close at hand! Part of the responsibility of having dogs and kids IMO.

[corvus]

Off topic, but does anyone else notice an eerie similarity between BB, Diablo, and Rex? These types seem to come and go on dog forums.

[Red Fox]

Off topic, but does anyone else notice an eerie similarity between BB, Diablo, and Rex? These types seem to come and go on dog forums.

I HIGHLY doubt that BB is Diablo. Actually I'm 100% sure of it..

[Danois]

Not sure why people are bothering to argue with Black Bronson - have you not figured out yet they are the expert when it comes to inter alia GSDs, training, aggressive dogs and desexing?

I realised I had to be humble and recognise my own inexperience when I read this post from them:

This behavioural perception of entire males is blown out of all proportion. The only time that a genuine issue can develop with entire males is in the presence of a bitch in season..........other than that, there is no difference. Desexing isn't a quick fix for a lack of training and in many cases, desexing and specialised training occur at the same time and the desexing get's the recognition for the improvement that the training created too often. Many a time I have seen fear aggressive dogs worsen after desexing and is not the ultimate fix over a proper training schedule for behavioural issues.

[Jaxx'sBuddy]

Not wanting to get involved in this debate at all BUT..

What would you suggest for the times when the adult is not there, not close at hand etc?

I would suggest that when it comes to kids and dogs that an adult is ALWAYS there and close at hand! Part of the responsibility of having dogs and kids IMO.

totally agree and i am still concerned that children are left to deal with an aggressive dog even if it was accidentally. they do not have the capability nor the experience to do this.

what if next week we see a post that says my dog attacked my child and they are now in hospital with facial injuries.

if it was me i would not be taking those chances