Advice On Different Package To Desex Puppy

[Elsha_UK_AU]

I just had my pup desexed today...he's currently asleep behind me as I type

Our vet charged $285 for de-sexing and he also (at extra charge of course) fixed an umbilical hernia and microchipped him at the same time. We didn't have a package....there wasn't an option for one....just 1 set price. I had an itemised bill and the amount of things on there....and the cost for them was over $600 but he discounted it all down to 1 price of $285.00 (not sure how that all works). Anyway, the vet knew we had private pet insurance so if he needed to treat him with anything outside of the regular desexing etc, then he knew we were covered.

I now just have a sleepy, wobbly, sore lil fella who keeps coming up to me for a cuddle and his big Brother who is happy to have the little scamp home :D

Susan

[cavNrott]

I've never been offered a package. I have baseline bloods done on young dogs so we can see how things are going down the track if anything crops up. We've not needed to do bloods again at desex time.

I have bloods done on older dogs before any surgery if none have been taken in the previous 6 months.

I ask for fluids and pain relief and for Isoflurane which is my vets usual choice of GA anyway. He knows if anything extra needs to be done to go ahead and do it without needing to phone and tell me.

[stormie]

I just think having all these options has the potential to make things so complicated, and potentially creating build up in your waiting room. It's so much easier to admit patients when you just need to get the forms signed and do the basic checks, rather than discuss options and deal with people who want a bit from column a and a bit from column b. If they want to stay overnight, no worries - we encourage it and it's of no extra cost.

I think the profession needs to step up and focus on some generic business things like professional service and communication. It's not enough to just say 'we'll do everything', clients need to know what the options are, the difference between them and they need to make the decisions based on correct information. They need to know what the forms say. We need to dot the I's and cross T's and document everything. If people want a little of column A and little of column B, they can have it. If something is 'necessary' it no longer becomes optional (in an ideal world). Necessary means I will not proceed without it. Some things are highly desirable (such as blood work) in many situations but we are regularly put in situations where we have to get the best outcome we can within in a set $$ limit. Do we spend the money on our best guess treatment that might not work? Do we spend the money on diagnostic tests? Do we get some basic information to do some rule outs and then go with treatment? Vets makes the decisions about whether there is an option A, B and C and we are advocates for the welfare of the patients but we are not the one paying the bills. Clients need to know what the options are, what the benefit or risk of each is, the cost of each etc etc. It's not enough to just say 'most young dogs don't need a preanaesthetic test so we wont discuss them' because there will one day be the case where something DOES go wrong and it will probably happen to someone who said 'I didn't know I could have a test done'.....

I get what you're saying Rappie, I just don't think that clients really do need to know all that. I agree - communication is hugely important and I think that's what kept us from going in the way of packages. Our clients trust their animals in the hands of our vet entirely - they know he's the professional and leave it up to him as to what needs to be done. There are no options to them because it's just done if it needs to be. If we think something looks a little pale prior to surgery, we'll do a PCV. We communicate with the owners, the path labs and make a decision whether or not to proceed. If pressure drops too much during surgery then we run in fluids and do whatever else needs to be done.

I'm not saying it's wrong, I just don't like the idea of owners having to make those decisions, particularly when cost is involved. There is already such a problem with people thinking vet fees are too high, so how is it improving the image of the industry by letting owners chose what treatment they have, based on what they can afford.

The fact that pain relief is offered in some of these packages seems wrong to me too. And in so many cases, the only pain relief they get is a shot of Metacam or Rimadyl etc, which really, isn't that much different than giving them an aspirin. So what's the point in that really? If you're going to offer pain relief, atleast make it an opioid which will actually make a difference. But really, it should just be included as part of the surgery cost.

Like I said, I'm not opposed to doing all these pre anaesthetic tests at all. I talk about it with my boss every week and it's something we'll probably start doing once we've upgraded our inhouse machine. But it will never be part of a package and never be something that a client will have to decide on or not. The cost of surgery will likely just go up to account for the extra test and we will explain to clients exactly what the price involves.

[OSoSwift]

I am not sure I would like the idea of being offered a "package"

At our hospital they are all induced with Valium/methone from memory, given Iso as their GA and given pain relief and antibiotics as a routine. If it is a dog that is older or unwell the benfits of running bloods and fluids is discussed and yes it is additional cost if the owner proceeds.

I know that things can be ticking along unnoticed but as a general rule a 6 to 12 month old puppy that is fit and full of vitality is at a lower risk of having an underlying problem. I doubt I would do a pre-anaesthetic screen on a young dog, and if it was a routine desexing then I most likley wouldn't have the fluids either if I was given a choice.

If I went to a vet hospital and was told it is "X" amount and this includes Desexing, bloods, fluids, pain relief etc etc, then I most likely would go yes okay and have it done.

Not sure I like the concept of bronze, silver and gold packages though.

[Dogsfevr]

The only clinics here that offer the packages are also well known for everything being made into packages,it wasnt until certain clinics where brought out did this programmes start .

Like buying a "wellness" programme or the next programme.

Being in dogs for 25 years these things didnt exist ,vets spoke to you like a human being not a marketing tool.

We have had alot of dogs spayed & had no issues.

The funny thing was the clinics that offer the above services also dont apply then to spaying,it is also X rays & the list goes on.

We see prices from clients vary from $150 up to $900 for spaying which is daylight robbery especially when there is no issue.

The vet near us has prices for various ages,pre season/had season.no litter/had litter they also offer these packages .

We have never had issues with understanding what was needed & required because we have been lucky to have vets who speak yo us BUT we also ask questions .

Reality is many vets have become so commercialized it quite sad

[OSoSwift]

All the vets I have know have prices for immature, mature and in season/early pregnant bitches (but rarely if ever did them in season) So that I can handle.

But up to $900 that is insane!

My vet tells me I would be a scary client as I have worked in the industry for 15 years, 5 of those for him. I asked him why and he said it was because I had lots of knowledge and would tell them if I wasn't happy, didn't agree etc. He also realised on some things I had more knowledge than him and was happy to ask my opinion - so that I like.

We have no commercialised vets down here as yet and I hope it stays that way. Both are owner operated with some extra associate vets of course.

[Danois]

Our clients trust their animals in the hands of our vet entirely - they know he's the professional and leave it up to him as to what needs to be done. There are no options to them because it's just done if it needs to be.

(snipped quote)

I am a client of this clinic and what stormie said is exactly how I feel.

While I had a rough idea of the cost (and their protocol from previous discussions), I left Boo in their hands to do what they needed to do.

I do not expect to tell my vet what I want done or not done as I have not had the training they have- just like my clients don't tell me how to do my job.

If you cannot trust your vet to do the best thing for your pet then it might be time to find a new vet!

Edited May 23, 2010 by Danois

[Rascalmyshadow]

I would suggest going to a different vet, all animals should receive the same care during surgery and I think it is disgusting that a vet would ask you to chose especially when you don't understnd what exactly they are offering, it also sounds way too expensive to me. Is this Kingston vet by any chance.

[nicolatu]

Hi guys, thanks for the recommendations and opinions. I just contacted another vet close to me at Glen Waverley. They are charging ~$210 for desexing a male puppy under 12 months of age. No other packages, just the basic package including GA and pain relief etc. It still seems very costly to me. I will call the RSPCA and ask about the price tommorow.

[Jumabaar]

I just think having all these options has the potential to make things so complicated, and potentially creating build up in your waiting room. It's so much easier to admit patients when you just need to get the forms signed and do the basic checks, rather than discuss options and deal with people who want a bit from column a and a bit from column b. If they want to stay overnight, no worries - we encourage it and it's of no extra cost.

I think the profession needs to step up and focus on some generic business things like professional service and communication. It's not enough to just say 'we'll do everything', clients need to know what the options are, the difference between them and they need to make the decisions based on correct information. They need to know what the forms say. We need to dot the I's and cross T's and document everything. If people want a little of column A and little of column B, they can have it. If something is 'necessary' it no longer becomes optional (in an ideal world). Necessary means I will not proceed without it. Some things are highly desirable (such as blood work) in many situations but we are regularly put in situations where we have to get the best outcome we can within in a set $$ limit. Do we spend the money on our best guess treatment that might not work? Do we spend the money on diagnostic tests? Do we get some basic information to do some rule outs and then go with treatment? Vets makes the decisions about whether there is an option A, B and C and we are advocates for the welfare of the patients but we are not the one paying the bills. Clients need to know what the options are, what the benefit or risk of each is, the cost of each etc etc. It's not enough to just say 'most young dogs don't need a preanaesthetic test so we wont discuss them' because there will one day be the case where something DOES go wrong and it will probably happen to someone who said 'I didn't know I could have a test done'.....

I get what you're saying Rappie, I just don't think that clients really do need to know all that. I agree - communication is hugely important and I think that's what kept us from going in the way of packages. Our clients trust their animals in the hands of our vet entirely - they know he's the professional and leave it up to him as to what needs to be done. There are no options to them because it's just done if it needs to be. If we think something looks a little pale prior to surgery, we'll do a PCV. We communicate with the owners, the path labs and make a decision whether or not to proceed. If pressure drops too much during surgery then we run in fluids and do whatever else needs to be done.

I'm not saying it's wrong, I just don't like the idea of owners having to make those decisions, particularly when cost is involved. There is already such a problem with people thinking vet fees are too high, so how is it improving the image of the industry by letting owners chose what treatment they have, based on what they can afford.

The fact that pain relief is offered in some of these packages seems wrong to me too. And in so many cases, the only pain relief they get is a shot of Metacam or Rimadyl etc, which really, isn't that much different than giving them an aspirin. So what's the point in that really? If you're going to offer pain relief, atleast make it an opioid which will actually make a difference. But really, it should just be included as part of the surgery cost.

Like I said, I'm not opposed to doing all these pre anaesthetic tests at all. I talk about it with my boss every week and it's something we'll probably start doing once we've upgraded our inhouse machine. But it will never be part of a package and never be something that a client will have to decide on or not. The cost of surgery will likely just go up to account for the extra test and we will explain to clients exactly what the price involves.

In all honesty without letting the client know the full range of options before a surgery takes place have you really gotten 'informed concent' for the surgery? if you have not got informed concent doesnt this then allow the client to make a complaint against the vet if something goes wrong? Particularly if it may have been solved by an option that was not offered because the veternarian decided that it was not necessary to bother the client with?

I dont agree with packages as such, but ultimatly it is an easy way to present some difficult concepts to clients and base your recomendations. I would prefer if they were not called gold, silver, bronze because it can influence the client into being guilted into doing gold for the sake of it. Personaly I would chose to do bloods, have pain relief, full induction and fluids during any surgery.

In the past I have had a vet decide what I could afford and did not offer me full treatment for one of my pets. I didnt know this at the time however I do know now- and I dont go back to that vet anymore...... They were not ethical in my opinion!! And thats what it comes down to- clients have a right to make decisions for thier own dog.

Many clients will just accept what the vet says but if you dont give them the option you are taking away their rights!!

Some clinics are now recomending regular bloods be taken as part of the yearly health check. Not necessary but as the industry changes and pet owners expect more from their vet I think these types of packages may become more common because companion animals are becoming much more than what they once were.

I really like the packages that you mention Rappie!!

Edited June 2, 2010 by woofenpup

[westiemum]

I agree that vets need to be clear about the options, costs and choices (and potential consequences and risks) up front. In that sense its no different to a human surgeon who will often give options and choices up front as well.

For what its worth, I always have fluids, pre-anaesthetic blood tests and plenty of pain relief for my elderly westies - I hate to be in pain myself and don't want them to be either (And thats what paying extra into the mortagage is for!)

Edited June 6, 2010 by westiemum

[Clyde]

Hi guys, thanks for the recommendations and opinions. I just contacted another vet close to me at Glen Waverley. They are charging ~$210 for desexing a male puppy under 12 months of age. No other packages, just the basic package including GA and pain relief etc. It still seems very costly to me. I will call the RSPCA and ask about the price tommorow.

My local vet charges $250 for what you've said above.