Advice On Different Package To Desex Puppy

[nicolatu]

Hi guys,

Oreo is my first dog and he is almost 16 weeks old. As the topic says, I want to desex him but I am not sure what package to choose from.

There is 3 options:

Gold - Comprehensive clinical examination by the vet after arrival, pre anaesthetic blood testing to check vital organ function before anaesthesia (to improve anaesthetic safety), Premedication with temgesic (pain relief), Intravenous fluid theraphy which maintains blood pressure and improves recovery from anaesthesia, another pain relief injection that lasts 24 hours, and lastly, take home pain relief for 5 days to ensure pain free.

Silver - Same as gold excluding pre anaesthetic blood testing.

Bronze - Same as gold excluding pre anesthetic blood testing and intravenous fluid therapy.

I was just wondering if pre anesthetic blood testing and intravenous fluid therapy is necessary? At what age should he be desexed (I read somewhere and it says under 6 months?)? He got an overbite so will desexing him affect his lower jaw growth? Can someone with experience give me some advice please?

Thanks in advance.

Nic

[greytdog]

I don't know if this is becoming common these days, but I hate it when vets have "packages" and "options" like this. I feel like I should be guilty for not picking the "best" (and most expensive) option.

Personally, the vet should just do what is appropriate and get on with it.

[Rappie]

I was just wondering if pre anesthetic blood testing and intravenous fluid therapy is necessary?

Pre-anaesthetic blood work let us assess kidney function, liver function and hydration levels before an anaesthetic. Is it essential in a young dog? - no. Is it useful? - Yes. The vast majority of young dogs we test have normal results but the occasional one will show up an abnormality which may indicate further investigation or treatment should be undertaken prior to GA. Choosing between doing it or not doing it might depend on cost, or how much information you need to feel comfortable going ahead with a surgery, or whether you want to do 'everything' or choose the routine options. You shouldn't feel guilty for not choosing them, you have only been offered bloods. Most practices that do this have in house equipment and offer bloods to every patient (key word offer - it is available for any and every patient). If they feel it is essential, it would likely not be negotiable in that particular situation.

As for intravenous fluids, yes, yes, yes and yes. Fluids and pain relief are two things that my clients don't get offered a choice in. Intravenous fluids maintain blood pressure which in turn supports the blood perfusion of vital organs like the liver and kidneys (and brain). Any level of GA reduces blood pressure and we need to do something to counter that. The fact that most animals are "OK" without fluids just means that their compensatory mechanisms can kick in for 'long enough' to prevent damage. It does not mean there is no drop in blood pressure or drop in organ and tissue perfusion.

Edited May 19, 2010 by Rappie

[Dogsfevr]

I don't know if this is becoming common these days, but I hate it when vets have "packages" and "options" like this. I feel like I should be guilty for not picking the "best" (and most expensive) option.

Personally, the vet should just do what is appropriate and get on with it.

Agree,we have a vet chain here that is notorious for these package deals & over kill & if you question them my god do you get abused.

A good vet clinic doesnt do package deals as such they should be treating each dog based on breed or risks associated & going from there.

It shouldnt be like picking a holiday package

[nicolatu]

I was just wondering if pre anesthetic blood testing and intravenous fluid therapy is necessary?

Pre-anaesthetic blood work let us assess kidney function, liver function and hydration levels before an anaesthetic. Is it essential in a young dog? - no. Is it useful? - Yes. The vast majority of young dogs we test have normal results but the occasional one will show up an abnormality which may indicate further investigation or treatment should be undertaken prior to GA. Choosing between doing it or not doing it might depend on cost, or how much information you need to feel comfortable going ahead with a surgery, or whether you want to do 'everything' or choose the routine options. You shouldn't feel guilty for not choosing them, you have only been offered bloods. Most practices that do this have in house equipment and offer bloods to every patient (key word offer - it is available for any and every patient). If they feel it is essential, it would likely not be negotiable in that particular situation.

As for intravenous fluids, yes, yes, yes and yes. Fluids and pain relief are two things that my clients don't get offered a choice in. Intravenous fluids maintain blood pressure which in turn supports the blood perfusion of vital organs like the liver and kidneys (and brain). Any level of GA reduces blood pressure and we need to do something to counter that. The fact that most animals are "OK" without fluids just means that their compensatory mechanisms can kick in for 'long enough' to prevent damage. It does not mean there is no drop in blood pressure or drop in organ and tissue perfusion.

Thanks for the reply.

What does GA stands for? I am weighing my options because gold package is $435, silver package is $350 and bronze is $185. As I am still a student, it can be quite a pricey procedure but i won't do anything to jeopardize my puppy's health.

What age do you suggest for a Border Collie to get desexed then?

[GoldenGirl85]

My vet clinic doesnt do packages either, I think its silly for them to offer it that way.

I was asked if I wanted Lexi to have the bloods done, it was to cost an extra $80, I said no because she was a happy healthy pup, I didnt see the point. She was automatically given fluids (she still had the drip in when I went to pick her up)

[GoldenGirl85]

GA - General Anesthetic

[nicolatu]

GA - General Anesthetic

Thanks for your 2 replies. Made me understand. I will probably do the Silver Package then.

[stormie]

GA = General Anaesthetic.

Agree- those packages are a rort and it shouldn't be up to the client to chose what is best. That's what you're paying for when you go to the vet - their professional opinion.

In saying this, we don't do bloods and fluids. It will probably be something that we will eventually do, but for the moment, we don't. Everything has a catheter put in and is monitored on a top of line monitor that checks blood pressure so if there is a sudden drop, fluids can be run in straight away. Our giant girls are put on fluids, but that's all so far.

Just be aware when shopping around for prices, what you are getting. For example, we spoke to a nurse from a clinic in the western suburbs the other day, whose desexings were considerably cheaper than ours, but on discussing their protocols, it was pretty amazing to hear how things were done there.

For example, our patients are all given a pre anaesthetic generally of a sedative with a heavy pain reliever. They are then catheterised and induced with the anaesthetic agent, placed on a hand held monitor, intubated, clipped etc etc, taken to theatre where they're put on a heated soft mat, breathing gas, attached to our awesome monitor (can you tell I love our monitor , operated on, cleaned up, back to cage, more pain relief.

At the other clinic, neither their girls or boys received any form of pain relief. They were occasionally sedated prior to induction. Once induced, they apparently only occasionally put the animals on gas, more often just having a nurse on hand to top up the IV anaesthetic if they started to wake up, with the animal just breathing normal air. No heating and not a lot happened in the way of monitors, just basic breathing and oxygen saturation alerts.

Animals went back to cage after surgery and again received no pain relief.

Now obviously the second clinic gets by and don't have problems doing it this way. But it just shows you why you would be paying the extra $100-150 to have your animal desexed in our clinic compared to theirs.

[dancinbcs]

Find another vet. IMO vets that offer these "packages" are just ripping people off and those prices to desex a male puppy are outrageous.

My vet is a repro specialist breeders vet and desexing my 8 year old retired breeding bitch last year only cost me $175. That included full gas GA, pain killers, everything. A male puppy should not cost any more than $200 in an outer suburb and maybe up to $300 if the vet is in a very high rent area.

Desexing a male puppy is usually a very quick and simple procedure. When I worked for a shelter they used to do puppies from eight weeks and line them up three to a table. They would do 20 in a morning and never lost any. Doing them individually with gas aneasthetic is better and takes a bit longer but it is still not a complicated procedure.

I have never known of a dog needing fluids after being desexed. After more complicated surgery yes, but not a simple castration. This is just over servicing for the most part to get the owners to pay more.

Oh, and pain relief on the day of surgery is good but after that it only encourages them to to race around and break the stitches. Most puppies bounce back within 24 hours regardless of pain relief anyway.

[nicolatu]

Find another vet. IMO vets that offer these "packages" are just ripping people off and those prices to desex a male puppy are outrageous.

My vet is a repro specialist breeders vet and desexing my 8 year old retired breeding bitch last year only cost me $175. That included full gas GA, pain killers, everything. A male puppy should not cost any more than $200 in an outer suburb and maybe up to $300 if the vet is in a very high rent area.

Desexing a male puppy is usually a very quick and simple procedure. When I worked for a shelter they used to do puppies from eight weeks and line them up three to a table. They would do 20 in a morning and never lost any. Doing them individually with gas aneasthetic is better and takes a bit longer but it is still not a complicated procedure.

I have never known of a dog needing fluids after being desexed. After more complicated surgery yes, but not a simple castration. This is just over servicing for the most part to get the owners to pay more.

Oh, and pain relief on the day of surgery is good but after that it only encourages them to to race around and break the stitches. Most puppies bounce back within 24 hours regardless of pain relief anyway.

Thanks for the reply. Woah! It seems very expensive, I will shop around for the prices. This is a high rent area though. Maybe I will do it at RSPCA, some of the money will be put into good use to help dogs/cats there. I take my puppy to this animal hospital because he attends puppy preschool there and it is not as scary for him (I read it somewhere). The vet nurse also tell me that all the packages are very safe but the gold package is the 'safest'.

[W Sibs]

I've never heard of packages before to desex a puppy! What a rip.

From what I understand, each vet have their own way of how they desex animals. You just have to find the one that you feel most comfortable with.

[Jaxx'sBuddy]

yep mine has packages and because i have a brachy breed i choose the best package. not because i felt guilty but because there are higher risks when brachy breeds have a GA.

i think my vet is very good and this is not diminished because they offer packages. i questioned them as to why they did it and they said that they always do what is required for the animals but that some people were asking for more options and they supplied them.

they never push the most expensive package and only the other day i heard the vet tell another patient not to buy the large expensive item until they tried the sample to make sure their puppy liked it.

they also do not charge for a consult unless they provide a service or treatment so you can go in and discuss the ailment and do nothing and not pay a thing.

so sorry this is a long post but providing GA care options do not equate with a bad vet

Edited May 19, 2010 by Jaxx'sBuddy

[GoldenGirl85]

Nic have both his testes descended? if only one is down maybe thats why there is a higher quote

[JulesP]

Yep I would be finding a new vet too. The package thing would not impress me at all.

[Dogsfevr]

so sorry this is a long post but providing GA care options do not equate with a bad vet

Yes it does because each dog should be considered until unless there are additional reason like the brachy breeds but having said that our vet sees alot of brachy breeds & there is no price difference.

Just like vets that now charge more if they have had a season ,it all a joke in the scheme off things

[Red Fox]

I don't know if this is becoming common these days, but I hate it when vets have "packages" and "options" like this. I feel like I should be guilty for not picking the "best" (and most expensive) option.

Personally, the vet should just do what is appropriate and get on with it.

Agreed! The vet should do what is best for your particular dog. And those prices are VERY high for a male dog of that size!!

But based on the original question-

If you want to use this vet I would ask for the bronze package with the option to give fluids or take bloods if and when the vet felt they were necessary for your pup :D

And I personally wouldn't desex him before he is at least 6 months old.

[nicolatu]

Nic have both his testes descended? if only one is down maybe thats why there is a higher quote

The vet haven't check his testicles yet. They just told me the price of different packages.

[nicolatu]

I don't know if this is becoming common these days, but I hate it when vets have "packages" and "options" like this. I feel like I should be guilty for not picking the "best" (and most expensive) option.

Personally, the vet should just do what is appropriate and get on with it.

Agreed! The vet should do what is best for your particular dog. And those prices are VERY high for a male dog of that size!!

But based on the original question-

If you want to use this vet I would ask for the bronze package with the option to give fluids or take bloods if and when the vet felt they were necessary for your pup :D

And I personally wouldn't desex him before he is at least 6 months old.

I will call around and ask. Seems to me that this hospital's vets are not particullary good as well. I might as well change now. Thanks for the advice.

[stormie]

what I would want to know is, if you picked bronze, and something happened during surgery and the dog needed fluids, would they then charge you silver? Because they could easily tell you each time that there were 'complications' and whilst you selected no fluids, the pressure dropped and they needed to run them in, so the price is now higher.

Thats why I think options like that are crap. We have one price (for out of season, not pregnant bitches). If the bitch is a bit complicated and it takes us 2 hours its still the same cost. If her pressure drops and she needs fluids, its still the same cost, because people are booking in for a simple, every day procedure and expect to have their animals looked after.