Why Are Ankc Members So Low?

[Guest DBT]

Another thing i would find more sensible , and would maybe have kept me more interested and showing longer.....

Once a dog is a Aust.Ch , it should go into a champions class, and one it is an Aust. Gr. Ch, it should go into a Gr. Ch class, and they can invent another level if they want to. More like how cat shows are structered.

[pebbles]

Agree with a lot of the points raised - for years I've been saying that the ANKC and/or State CCs should be doing more promotion of the pure breeds, it's left to members. Council restrictions are playing a big part as has the costs of maintaining and showing. Good point about the shows not being in the public arena so much now, the Ag Shows always drew a number of interested people.

Not sure about the nastiness to newcomers part though, in over 50 years of showing dogs in most Groups I could count on one hand the remarks that made me shake my head in disbelief, maybe I've always been with a different crowd or just have a thick skin. One organisation I did walk away from was the parents guild of the Boy Scouts - anyone who didn't attend a meeting was well and truly pulled to pieces!

[WreckitWhippet]

Another thing i would find more sensible , and would maybe have kept me more interested and showing longer.....

Once a dog is a Aust.Ch , it should go into a champions class, and one it is an Aust. Gr. Ch, it should go into a Gr. Ch class, and they can invent another level if they want to. More like how cat shows are structered.

Sorry but a dog or bitch should be good enough to earn it's title and that means competing with the best of the best.

[Wags]

Too much politics and in fighting. Most people have enough crap to put up with at work without deliberately exposing themselves to the childish crap that goes on in breed clubs and dog shows out of hours. Problem is that the people causing the problems can't seem to see that they share any responsibility in the decline in memberships. It's not all bad but it's sufficiently bad to make sure that a lot of newbies walk away and don't go back.

This is indeed the negative reason given to me when I encourage entrance into the show or breeding fraternity. I seems that even outside the fraternity the negative notariety is rife and it is becoming one of the things considered by prospective puppy purchasers too. It seems that in many cases, the prospective puppy purchaser is being affected by 'attitude'. Such a great pity all round and one that leads to assisting the encouragement of puppy mills and pet shops unfortunately.

[WreckitWhippet]

The negativity, bitching, back stabbing and other behaviours I think have been highly over exaggerated. I've been showing now for 15 or so years, I started by myself, with virtually no help and no one rolled out the red carpet for me, as newbies have so often come to expect these days.

Most of the complaints, bitching and the other goings on I've heard from exhibitors with second rate dogs and bitches, who can take hack it when they lose.

Yep, some nasty stuff happens, but that's life and part of everything that is competitve, it's always been the case. It's the costs and restrictions that have seen the numbers drop, not the bad sportsmanship.

[whippets]

Bad sportsmanship is in everything. I do believe people are alot more "precious" these days when it comes to people bad mouthing them. Of course it is uncalled for but you can't live in a bubble.

I still think the cake people are worse than the dog people. Seeing a couple of grandma's leaving WWF to shame is a sight to behold.

[Guest DBT]

Another thing i would find more sensible , and would maybe have kept me more interested and showing longer.....

Once a dog is a Aust.Ch , it should go into a champions class, and one it is an Aust. Gr. Ch, it should go into a Gr. Ch class, and they can invent another level if they want to. More like how cat shows are structered.

Sorry but a dog or bitch should be good enough to earn it's title and that means competing with the best of the best.

I believe the newly titled dogs will still be of the standard they should be, if they are indeed judged to the standard. The newly titled dogs will then step into the champ class, and if for some reason they are not up to scratch, they'll be sorted out pretty quickly in the champ classes .

I see no reason why standards would drop with a system like this, and i see every reason why it would help newcomers gain confidence and stick around.

I have spoken to a few people with Ch & Gr.Ch dogs that say they would prefer to be showing in a class of same titled dogs, as the win would be more significant to them. It will all be sorted in the end anyway ,If a junior dog is deemed better than a Gr.Ch (for example) the right dog will go through to group anyway.

From the perspective of the OP .....Its very discouraging to be a new comer, still learning ringcraft and getting your act together,with a young dog , being judged in the same class as a mature dog with enough points to be a grand ch 7 times over.

I know not everyone shares this opinion.

[Wazzat Xolo]

The negativity, bitching, back stabbing and other behaviours I think have been highly over exaggerated. I've been showing now for 15 or so years, I started by myself, with virtually no help and no one rolled out the red carpet for me, as newbies have so often come to expect these days.

Most of the complaints, bitching and the other goings on I've heard from exhibitors with second rate dogs and bitches, who can take hack it when they lose.

Yep, some nasty stuff happens, but that's life and part of everything that is competitve, it's always been the case. It's the costs and restrictions that have seen the numbers drop, not the bad sportsmanship.

Well said, the bad sportsmanlike people are just that in all that they do generally Bad loosers, with second rate dogs and a very basic out;look on life itself.

The negativity of these people os there in all their spheres of life not just the dog show world!

I for one can not talk highly enough of all the help the ANKC New Breeds com has freely given myself, and many other breeders who I have never met given me wonderful information and help.

Edited May 23, 2010 by Wazzat Xolo

[blacklabrador]

The negativity, bitching, back stabbing and other behaviours I think have been highly over exaggerated. I've been showing now for 15 or so years, I started by myself, with virtually no help and no one rolled out the red carpet for me, as newbies have so often come to expect these days.

Most of the complaints, bitching and the other goings on I've heard from exhibitors with second rate dogs and bitches, who can take hack it when they lose.

Yep, some nasty stuff happens, but that's life and part of everything that is competitve, it's always been the case. It's the costs and restrictions that have seen the numbers drop, not the bad sportsmanship.

Let's face it Warley - you've been breeding and showing a long time and are a very direct and no nonsense person who doesn't tolerate crap. People aren't going to be nasty to you... simple as that. You'd probably tell them where to get off right to their face (and more power to you) but you do have to realise that it tends to deter people. You probably wouldn't be exposed to what some other people have to endure. Often from what I've seen it's the people who are doing the winning who make it difficult for others and throw tantrums when they don't win on occasion.

[mita]

Great post Dancinbcs

Agreed!

Me, too.

That post picked out the social & economic changes that've come about over recent years.

That's not to say that some unwelcoming or nasty behaviour could also be in the mix.

Trivial, as it sounds, I'd like to see children get more involved in the Junior Handlers' sections. Apart from introducing children early to the show world, it's an educationally & socially blooming brilliant learning experience.

Edited May 23, 2010 by mita

[Jaxx'sBuddy]

i have a friend who has just started showing and has told me they have had tremendous support from other breeders both within the breed and other breeds. one breeder has shown them how to groom properly, another taken them out of the cold into their tent... literally it was raining.

so i am thinking that it takes all kinds to make up any community and you will get good and bad in all of them. just means if you want to get involved you need to watch who you get involved with.

[blacklabrador]

so i am thinking that it takes all kinds to make up any community and you will get good and bad in all of them. just means if you want to get involved you need to watch who you get involved with.

Of course it does JB. She should be aware that people's attitude may change once she starts winning though. I've seen some people treated so well while they have a crap dog or a puppy that doesn't look like it's going anywhere. Then things can change once they start taking the points. You can "watch" who you get involved with all you like but you don't know how people change when the circumstances change.

Really it seems to take more than many people have to give to truly mentor somebody without intimidating them - staying a constant and supportive figure, not getting all shitty if they don't take advice, remembering that they may have more than one person giving them advice (and that person may be your biggest opponent in the ring), to allow them to make mistakes and grow and not tell them "I told you so, if you'd done what I said..." All the insecurity and infighting and power play gets a bit much for some. I have hung around and listened and watched for several years, shown a few breeds etc, been a shoulder to other newbies and of course read much of what is said here. I wouldn't even bother going near the show forums - just hearing about the crap and the power play is enough.

Of course there are lovely and ethical people in the sport who are there for the right reasons and are totally respectful of others regardless. It would be great if there were more of them.

[Ozstar]

The degree of nastiness seems to vary enormously with the breed. Some of the terrier breeds like SBT and Amstaff seem to have a problem, as do many of the utility breeds, especially those with a lot of imports. As a general rule though most of the working dog, gundog and non sporting exhibitors seem to get on pretty well. There will always be the odd person ready to be nasty but in any group of humans that is to be expected. It does generally seem to be the more placid the breed the more placid the owners are. I have always had working dogs and can only really think of a few really nasty exhibitors over the years but never to the degree mentioned above. What goes on between exhibitors of some other breeds leaves me gob smacked.

The SBT exhibitors here can be very nasty but the majority are very nice.

I recently showed my Frenchie baby, it has been 7 years since I showed a Frenchie or been in group 7. The other Frenchie exhibitors where rather rude. I then had it rubbed rudely in my face that my baby came 2nd, hell it was her first show against an older baby. The baby that won has my breeding in it and I could not of been happier for the baby and the handler.

Very few new exhibitors stick it out and it is very dissapointing.

I am not saying the rudeness is the only factor but it sure does add to it. The growing costs of showing and the whos who in the dog world has also played its part.

Unlike the Eastern states we only have 1 show on at a time so can not pick and choose so it does not matter if it is a country show or city all the same people go.

Leanne

Edited May 23, 2010 by Ozstar Kennels

[SkySoaringMagpie]

Let's face it Warley - you've been breeding and showing a long time and are a very direct and no nonsense person who doesn't tolerate crap. People aren't going to be nasty to you... simple as that. You'd probably tell them where to get off right to their face (and more power to you) but you do have to realise that it tends to deter people. You probably wouldn't be exposed to what some other people have to endure. Often from what I've seen it's the people who are doing the winning who make it difficult for others and throw tantrums when they don't win on occasion.

Bingo. A hard target doesn't see anywhere near as much bullshit as a soft target and the amount and type of bullshit also varies within the breed. My breed has been pretty silly over the last year, fortunately not much of it coming my way - it's always handy when they have bigger fish to fry than you Also, not all of the crap happens on the ground.

However, I got near constant bad sportsmanship from one exhibitor when I first started and I'm sure it was because they knew I was by nature a fairly quiet sort who wasn't confident enough to stop it. The only reason I didn't quit (for that, and other reasons) was because I had good mentors. It is really hard for a newbie who doesn't feel they "own" the territory at a dog show to handle established show people who behave badly. Hard without help anyway - which is why I said what I did further upthread.

[Jaxx'sBuddy]

so i am thinking that it takes all kinds to make up any community and you will get good and bad in all of them. just means if you want to get involved you need to watch who you get involved with.

Of course it does JB. She should be aware that people's attitude may change once she starts winning though. I've seen some people treated so well while they have a crap dog or a puppy that doesn't look like it's going anywhere. Then things can change once they start taking the points. You can "watch" who you get involved with all you like but you don't know how people change when the circumstances change.

<snip>

Of course there are lovely and ethical people in the sport who are there for the right reasons and are totally respectful of others regardless. It would be great if there were more of them.

i agree although has been winning quite a lot

i do wish there were more lovely and ethical people i have toyed with becoming involved but this does put me off.

[Crazy Daisy]

I think membership is low because you don't really get much for your registration unless you are showing or trialling.

When I bought my first main registered dog I became a member of CCCQ. We lasted two shows and my dog hated it and I had no idea what I was doing and no one to ask (breeder was no help). So after my years registration finished I didn't renew it. There was not much in the magazine that interested me and there were no other benefits as I wasn't showing anymore.

Four years later, now that I have decided to try showing again with a different breed I am a member again. Only because I got another show dog did I become a member. I think there needs to be more benefits for people who don't show or trial. Although I don't know what that could be.

[Gayle.]

I showed Dusty for around a year, then had to stop to do other things. I found the majority of people to be friendly and helpful to me, but I did see and hear a lot of stuff that made me go None was directed at me though. We will go back showing soon with a new puppy, so none of this stuff puts me off.

And I don't think it's the reason for declining membership.

Dog shows aren't that popular because they don't have a good reputation. Pedigree dogs are seen as elite and also don't have a good reputation. The reputation is undeserved but the people who could turn it around aren't really doing anything much about it.

The whole pedigree dog world is in serious need of some fabulous publicity because people believe what they are told and for the last few decades they've been told a whole lot of crap by a few bullshit artists (gardeners and the like). They aren't being told anything different so that's all they've got to believe.

When did the decline in membership start? Around 20-25 years ago? Cos that ties in very nicely with the advent of the designer dog.