Why Are Ankc Members So Low?

[Bindii]

Great post Dancinbcs

Agreed!

[Fleuri]

A couple of years back I was researching a breed . I noticed by the clubs website photos, that for almost all the events/show for this breed the same people attended and almost always the same breeders won.

I am not a breeder/show person so I don't know if this is normal or not.

[SparkyTansy]

great post dancinbcs

[4Kelpies]

I was an ANKC member 14 years ago but I stopped renewing my membership some years ago. There just didn't seem any point in being a member. I originally joined in order to be able to trial my associate dog. I did ANKC agility for a few years but when NADAC agility started I found I had plenty of trials closer to home and I much preferred the variety of events and the dog friendly courses. At that time many ANKC judges/course builders were from an obedience background with little agility experience and tended to build tight trappy courses especially at master level. I think things have improved since and the ANKC have followed a lot of NADAC ideas.

I took my Kelpie to one herding day and she passed her two instinct tests but as all herding activities seemed to be at KCC park or further east, there didn't seem much point in continuing with this. I preferred yard dog trials.

I could probably count on the fingers of one hand the interesting articles I ever read in the Vicdog magazine. It certainly gave the idea that the ANKC was mainly for people who were showing dogs. It seemed I was sending them a lot of money - for membership and titles and not getting much back.

I think we need a body to represent all dog owners (especially when dealing with governments and their dog unfriendly laws) but I don't believe the ANKC has ever done this.

PS I agree with you dancinbcs.

[Guest DBT]

I don't think i will be renewing my membership at the end of this year. I have been showing my chosen breed for a couple of years. I was very lucky to be given some really nice dogs to get started with.I managed to finish their titles . I bred one litter of really nice pups, a couple of which are being shown by other people, and i think one just finished its title.

I have had all of my show dogs desexed now, as i doubted we'd ever give the 'grand ch' a look in with a rare breed.I would just be throwing money down the loo week after week .

I would like to participate in the new 'Neuter Ch ' class with a couple of my dogs, but i'm doubtful as to how many clubs will run this class in SA (or anywhere?) . I will have to wait & see i guess. Even if it does get a run here, i can't help but wonder whether it will be embraced as a way to keep people like me coming back, and to encourage people with just one top quality pet to give it a go, etc. , or whether it will be frowned upon like we are second class citizens.

The blatant bitching and backstabbing i see & hear week after week at the shows leaves a bad taste in my mouth, as well as all the fees involved ....and for what. To drag me & the dogs out in the

sun,wind,rain,cold, heat etc for 10 seconds in the ring, often to be judged by a judge that seems preoccupied chatting to a friend ringside or looking away to the ring they'd rather be judging....

My experience at dog shows hasn't been all bad, don't get me wrong....but the whole package deal hasn't been enough to keep me coming back.

I have come to the conclusion that weekends will be better spent taking the dogs for a frolic somewhere or just hanging at home in comfort ....

[SkySoaringMagpie]

i think that applies to most clubs or organisations..

Yes. I've heard the same things about kids sports teams (usually worse in fact), model railway associations, even knitting circles. In those pursuits, the pursuit itself is not in question - for example, most people agree it's good for kids to play sport. So people usually put the nastiness down to human failing, not knitting. For some reason dog and cat exhibition is not viewed favourably, and so the nasties are considered reflective of the sport rather than just of the human zoo you find everywhere.

However, the human zoo is a problem and needs to be tackled because we are in decline and it tends to be self-fulfilling.

Formal avenues for dealing with bad behaviour are important, but it's hard when most involved are volunteers and not paid to be compliance officers. And some of it is practically unenforceable anyway, no newbie is going to report an All Breeds judge for dirty handling them and there is a fair amount of corrupt behaviour that is not caught by the rules on conflict of interest.

So:

1 - Sports psychology classes for newbies along with handling classes. Perhaps we haven't seen them to date because people are loathe to admit they are needed or loathe to give a helping hand to potential competition but I think they could really help stem the loss of new blood by teaching people how to see and deal with any rubbish thrown their way.

2 - Be the change you want to see Be friendly, be welcoming, create a good group of people who have some perspective about it all. If you have a nice bunch of people to hang out with then it's easier to see someone sledging you in the challenge line up as funny rather than painful. The ANKC/Controls/Clubs could reward this by supporting some kind of recognition for people who contribute to the sport by being good sports - a best and fairest of some kind? I think the MDBA is on the right track here.

One thing that doesn't work is complaining on the internet about people being nasty because those who are bullying, white-anting, sledging and engaging in corrupt behaviour often don't realise they are part of the problem or they just don't care. They need to be squeezed out in the same way you'd train a dog not to engage in unpleasant behaviour. Reward good behaviour and if you can, make sure unpleasant behaviour is unsuccessful. Part of that is helping the vulnerable to be a harder target.

[oakway]

So the rise in popularity of "designer breeds" which are excluded except from trialing - would have nothing to do with it?

Absolutely not. Those dogs are not show dogs nor registrable with ANKC.

[WreckitWhippet]

Simply because gone are the days when you could own ten or 15 dogs and have a reasonable sized kennel in your back yard or on you small acre blocks.

[RallyValley]

I think showing is all about the mindset and having the right people to hang out with at the show. I have only been showing for 3 months but I think going to a show is inviting everyone to think they can judge your dog so that is why people you don't know feel they can make comments about your dog/handling ect they might just be trying to help in rhier own way ( and if they aren't pretend that they are, but they are just socially akward) Also I think the other part is that I don't take it too seriously (e.g Its 8.20am my dog is in a show at 12.30 and he is outside playing in the mud, I will clean him up but I am not going to stress over it, just let him be a dog). However the only times I get down at shows is when I am there without any company.

[blacklabrador]

I think showing is all about the mindset and having the right people to hang out with at the show. I have only been showing for 3 months but I think going to a show is inviting everyone to think they can judge your dog so that is why people you don't know feel they can make comments about your dog/handling ect they might just be trying to help in rhier own way ( and if they aren't pretend that they are, but they are just socially akward) Also I think the other part is that I don't take it too seriously (e.g Its 8.20am my dog is in a show at 12.30 and he is outside playing in the mud, I will clean him up but I am not going to stress over it, just let him be a dog). However the only times I get down at shows is when I am there without any company.

There is so much more to it than that Valley CBR. The politics go a lot deeper than people making comments (which I've never had a problem with personally). When you start breeding, it does get serious. You have a short haired working breed - he should be able to be a dog - brush the mud off him and take him to the show - but it's not about grooming either.

I agree with whomever posted earlier describing the many reasons that membership is down. My comments were more about why exhibiting numbers might be down.

[Gayle.]

That was my comment and you have taken it completely out of context. What I said was that it takes about 20 years experience to really know a breed because you need to observe several generations over their full lifetime to do this. I was commenting on the amount of experience that mentors to new breeders / exhibitors should have. It is no use having a mentor who is only a couple of years in front of you in experience. As a newcomer you need a mentor who knows the breed in depth. I was lucky to start with such a mentor and do whatever I can to encourage and mentor newcomers to the breed.

That was the comment as I read it at the time, and while there may have been further clarification in the thread, there wasn't when the comment was made.

[mantis]

The thread title had me thinking this was a totally different topic!

Dog registrations for just about every breed are way down too. It's very sad I think.

Same here, I thought I may have missed a thread on here.

[pebbles]

And I personally know of a number of the old longtime breeders who have walked away due to the know-it-all attitude of some of the 5 minute wonders who aren't doing a thing for their chosen breed

[dancinbcs]

That was my comment and you have taken it completely out of context. What I said was that it takes about 20 years experience to really know a breed because you need to observe several generations over their full lifetime to do this. I was commenting on the amount of experience that mentors to new breeders / exhibitors should have. It is no use having a mentor who is only a couple of years in front of you in experience. As a newcomer you need a mentor who knows the breed in depth. I was lucky to start with such a mentor and do whatever I can to encourage and mentor newcomers to the breed.

That was the comment as I read it at the time, and while there may have been further clarification in the thread, there wasn't when the comment was made.

Sorry but I beg to differ. Here is my complete original post from the topic about the fictional Jane becoming a breeder and you will notice that I was talking about how long it takes to be an experienced breeder and mentor to newcomers. It was in response to a post implying that after a few years Jane would have learnt all there is to learn.

Nowhere did I say that anyone with less than 20 years knew nothing.

"Even after 20 years of successful showing and breeding, Jane will still not know all there is to learn. Novice breeders realise they know nothing. After about 3 or 4 years they think they know everything. If they stick with breeding, a few years later they will start to realise how much they still have to learn. If you are a truly dedicated breeder you never stop learning.

I consider anyone with less than 20 years experience a relative newcomer to the dog world. You need to have observed several generations for their full lifespan to really know a breed. At the first National Border Collie show in 2006 we had a photo taken of all the exhibitors with 20+ years in the breed. There were about 50 breeders in that photo, so newcomers have a long way to go to gain that sort of knowledge and experience.

The best person to decide if your dog is worthy of breeding is your mentor. A mentor should have at least 15-20 years in the breed and have successfully produced numerous titled dogs in whatever field you wish to pursue ie. showing, trialling, herding, retrieving, etc. It is preferable if the your mentor has produced dogs titled in conformation as well as other activities appropriate to the breed."

"

[Gayle.]

OK fair enough, the 20 years or you know nothing was what stuck out to me.

For some of us, we are getting into the pedigree dog world in middle age, after a lifetime of owning and loving a succession of family mutts. But we won't have 20 years, so why bother?

[Crisovar]

The bitchy and infighting have been going on as long as I can remember and I started showing dogs in 1970, so I really don't think that is what causes the numbers to drop.

The increased cost of maintaining, showing and breeding I think contributes, it is no longer a relatively cheap weekend activity.

Dog breeders and exhibitors with more than 2 dogs are being forced to move further and further out of the burbs in many areas due to the tightening on local laws, and affordable land and housing is shrinking.

The restrictions being placed on many breeds, and changes to laws has meant many have walked away.

[dancinbcs]

OK fair enough, the 20 years or you know nothing was what stuck out to me.

For some of us, we are getting into the pedigree dog world in middle age, after a lifetime of owning and loving a succession of family mutts. But we won't have 20 years, so why bother?

You don't need 20 years to have success and enjoy it. I won my first BIS with my first dog when he was 3 years old. It is harder but not impossible, these days because of this obsession everyone seems to have with dog showing being a "sport" where performance and reputation are all important. Any mongrel with the right attitude can be taught to "show" but it does not make it a good example of any breed. If judges got back to judging the dogs on how they conform to the standard rather than how well the dog showed, there would be a lot more happy newcomers that would stick around rather than giving up.

Believe me there is nothing like winning a BIS to give you some incentive to keep on showing.

[wayrod]

Just my thoughts!!!

Could it also be that we have taken the shows away from the general public/local communities. I believe that if we are not out in the public eye we soon become forgotten and become insignificant to a level that other more "pro" publicity organisations can then take control as experts and we begin to loose our voice in the community.

We used to have shows in Victoria like:Whittlesea KC @ Whittlesea; Yarra Valley @ Hurstbridge to name two. At each of these venues there was lead up and follow up publicity in the local newspapers and I can recall the numbers of "locals" passing through looking at all the exhibits. We also had a lot more agricultural shows (up until 1980s) than we currently have and again more general public passing through the dog showing area, some would then purchase a purebreed dog and some would also venture into showing.

So why is Sunbury so well partonised? Would Sunbury have the same appeal if it was conducted at Bulla (only fifteen minutes away)? I believe atmosphere plays a big part in drawing in the public. Success breeds success.

Even the biggest opportunity to publicly display dogs in Victoria is at the Royal Melbourne Show: what have we learnt! The dogs are locked away in an area with limited public access. Benching pavilion still crowded and there is not enough seating/standing areas for the general public and General Specials is conducted either between the buildings or inside (wet weather) not on the larger grass area that would be better suited if it was provided with more tiered seating for the general public.

Again, just my thoughts!!!

[oakway]

Simply because gone are the days when you could own ten or 15 dogs and have a reasonable sized kennel in your back yard or on you small acre blocks.

Aint it the truth :p

[wayrod]

Simply because gone are the days when you could own ten or 15 dogs and have a reasonable sized kennel in your back yard or on you small acre blocks.

Whilst I am not disagreeing with your statement, I am wondering how would this explain the number of ANKC Members being low? 1 member 1 dog; or 1 member 15 dogs still works out to be one member.