Oriental Dog With Black & Tan Colouration

[MalteseLuna]

Does anyone know of a dog breed that originated in Eastern Asia (preferably in ancient times i.e. 1000+ years ) that has both yellow/red and black & tan colour varieties?

I know the basenji is one however their black & tan is really a tri-colour with alot of white (according to the standards).

I thought some rare breed enthusiasts might know of a breed that fits!

It's for a research project which is part of my PhD

Thanks,

Kylie

[tianakaesha]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tibetan_Mastiff ?

[Crazy Daisy]

I love Tibetan Mastiffs!!! One day....... "sigh"

[mita]

Tibetan Spaniels can come in any colour or combination of colours. There's black & tan tibbies here in Australia. And my own girl is a yellowy/red colour.

[corvus]

Shiba Inu?

[poodlefan]

Shiba Inu?

That would be my guess too.

[MalteseLuna]

Shiba's are on my list! I believe they are a fairly new breed though (read few hundred years instead of 1000+).

I'm looking for a breed that is an ancient 'pariah-type' dog for comparison. Think Basenji, Carolina Dog, New Guinea Singing Dog... it's possible that the breed doesn't exist

Thanks for the suggestions so far!

[poodlefan]

Shiba's are on my list! I believe they are a fairly new breed though (read few hundred years instead of 1000+).

I'm looking for a breed that is an ancient 'pariah-type' dog for comparison. Think Basenji, Carolina Dog, New Guinea Singing Dog... it's possible that the breed doesn't exist

Thanks for the suggestions so far!

Nope, very very old.. thousands of year BC. And they have the usual "pariah" shape.

Edited May 19, 2010 by poodlefan

[pebbles]

I wouldn't say the Shiba as they must have the Urajiro which is nearly white and there should be a fair amount of this.

Red, black and tan, sesame, black sesame, red sesame..

Definition of the colour sesame:

Sesame Equal mixture of white and black hairs.

Black sesame More black than white hairs.

Red sesame Ground colour of hair red, with mixture of black hairs.

All the above mentioned colours must have "Urajiro".

"Urajiro" = whitish coat on the sides of the muzzle and on the cheeks, on the underside of the jaw and neck, on the chest and stomach, on the underside of the tail, and on the inside of the legs.

[mirawee]

My first thought was Shiba Inu too Very definitely a spitz breed that has been around for a long time... it is considered one of the oldest dog breeds (according to Wiki, which we all know is a very reliable source , Shiba's or something similar have been around since 3rd century BC! They are one of the original dog breeds from Japan!

[corvus]

Jindos also come in black and tan as well as white and yellow, but there are some other colours as well.

[MalteseLuna]

Glad to be corrected - a recent paper in Nature on the origins of Domesticated Dogs mentioned a few very old breeds but didn't mention Shiba Inu's (now that I look back at it they must not have been included).

I'm basically interested in the black and tan phenotype/genotype (Agouti gene).

Black and Tan Shiba's look very very close to what I was looking for - even with Urajiro which shouldn't affect the genotype at the Agouti gene. I guess the same is true for Basenji's, I was just checking around to see what exists.

Thanks for the suggestions everyone

[corvus]

Really? I thought Shibas were included as an ancient dog breed in that paper. Maybe I just assumed they were. I have a vague notion that they may have been bundled in with the Akita. I reckon have a closer look at the tables.

AFAIK there aren't any other obscure pariah dogs that have black and tan. Most of them are yellow or black and white. Interesting that Dingos and NGSD don't have black and white.

[Kirislin]

I thought you meant black with tan points but do you mean tan with black muzzle?

[badboyz]

My first thought was the Tang Dog, supposedly behind the chow and shar pei breeds. Here is an article which my help you: http://kennellonfumun.kotisivukone.com/9

eta. click on: plate 3.1 samples of tang dogs

eta: http://dogbreeds.bulldoginformation.com/ch...dog-breeds.html never heard of the first breed, but they are amazing.

Edited May 19, 2010 by badboyz

[jackie_a1]

Maybe its the Caucasian Mountain Dog (my dream breed?)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caucasian_Shepherd_Dog

[t-time]

Tibetan Terriers also come in those colours mentioned and are on the "Ancient Breeds" list.

[cannibalgoldfish]

New Guinea Singing Dogs?

Which is not asian. Ooopps. Been a long day!

Edited May 19, 2010 by cannibalgoldfish

[MalteseLuna]

Yes I do mean Black with tan points.

NGSD don't have a black and tan colour (that I know of). I would count them as Asian origin... but they are believed to be close relations to Dingos which are also of Asian origin (4000+ years ago).

I do think it's interesting that most 'ancient' pariah type dogs only come in yellow or black/white varieties - no tan points. That's why I'm looking at this colour morph.

The paper was published in 2010 - First Author Bridgett M. vonHoldt entitled Genome-wide SNP and haplotype analyses reveal a rich history underlying dog domestication, from Nature.

Tang dog is an interesting contender!

[corvus]

The point was brought up on another board once that when dogs breed randomly for several generations you tend to get "yella dogs" as they called them - square, medium-sized, short (but double) coated, yellow dogs, often with prick ears and a slightly curled tail. It's a fascinating observation.