Advice Please...puppy Apparently Dead After Illness

[BJean]

TBH I do not believe the puppy is dead at all, I think once I told him that one of my puppies had died from this, he saw that as a way to try and extort money from me.

Anyway, what I have decided to do is give him the $30 for the papers and also a black and white photo copy of his puppy's papers with 'DECEASED' written across it. And then return the original to Dogs Victoria.

I think you have a responsibility to determine whether your pup is still alive or not.

Right now you only have supposition, and the word of someone you dont trust.

Before I could black mark one of my pups from existence

I'd want to know with absolute certainty

that the pup was indeed dead.

Edited May 18, 2010 by lilli

[Rubric]

Agreed, and sighting a death certificate is the only positive way to know. He and I go to the same vet who will not tell me if the puppy has died or not due to confidentiality BS.....

So how do I find out one way or another if the vet will not tell me anything, so frustrating

@nickojoy Good idea, I will cross the number out for sure. TY

[BJean]

Agreed, and sighting a death certificate is the only positive way to know. He and I go to the same vet who will not tell me if the puppy has died or not due to confidentiality BS.....

So how do I find out one way or another if the vet will not tell me anything, so frustrating

I hope you now find a new vet?

[Kirislin]

Agreed, and sighting a death certificate is the only positive way to know. He and I go to the same vet who will not tell me if the puppy has died or not due to confidentiality BS.....

So how do I find out one way or another if the vet will not tell me anything, so frustrating

@nickojoy Good idea, I will cross the number out for sure. TY

Have you told your vet why you need to know, that this person is demanding money? Perhaps then he can at least tell you if it's dead or alive.

[ellz]

I have heard of a situation recently where a vet contacted a state canine control in regards to a breeder who apparently had dogs continually appearing at his surgery with the same health issues, I'd have thought this is a similar type of situation, so maybe if you approach him and explain, he may be more willing to assist and at least tell you whether or not the puppy you bred is alive?

[casowner]

Rubric, I would be going in to talk to the vet personally. The guy knew that you had other sick puppies clearly that information must have been passed on at the clinic which is confidential information about you. They denied saying it which he may have stretched the truth but he knew you had sick puppies. They told you that the puppy wasn't as sick as yours again confidentiality as legally they own it and can't pass that info onto you.

He may not have taken the "dead" puppy to the vet, they may have buried or disposed of it so you may find it difficult proving it had died. Had you sent off the papers to transfer ownership yet?

To the breeders - if someone has paid for a puppy, can Dogs Victoria just take the word of the breeder to say it died? What would happen if the puppy owner then challenged that and formally requested the papers be done and the breeder supplied them with the change of ownership? Not saying this is what is happening, the opposite has been said ie the dog is dead, but down the track if he had a similiar pup and no microchip was implanted in the original then what is stopping them from stirring trouble as they did pay for a registered pup.

Edited May 18, 2010 by casowner

[Rubric]

@ lilli lol yes I am in the process of looking for a new vet, this one is very convenient, nice and close, but if I have to travel now, so be it.

I called them yesterday and asked them and told them he wants money. They don't care. They just said, we cannot tell you anything-not even if it is alive or dead, he owns the dogs now, even though you bred it, you dont own it anymore. We cannot discuss other people's pets with anyone else.

And then she pretty much hung up on me!

Sooo..without their help I am stuck unless I see a death certificate or autopsy report, I guess

[ellz]

@ lilli lol yes I am in the process of looking for a new vet, this one is very convenient, nice and close, but if I have to travel now, so be it.

I called them yesterday and asked them and told them he wants money. They don't care. They just said, we cannot tell you anything-not even if it is alive or dead, he owns the dogs now, even though you bred it, you dont own it anymore. We cannot discuss other people's pets with anyone else.

And then she pretty much hung up on me!

Sooo..without their help I am stuck unless I see a death certificate or autopsy report, I guess

Did you speak to a vet or did you speak to a receptionist with a God complex?

[Rubric]

@ casowner...I have registered the litter, but they will all be registered in my name. The new owners will change it once they receieve the papers.

He knew my puppies were sick because I told him, I wanted to make sure he knew how urgent it was that he get his puppy to the vet ASAP. Apparently it was there from Thursday night to Sunday on the drip, and died yesterday...

BUT the vet told ME that his puppy was not as sick as mine and that the owner didnt have the resources to do a culture, so thats a breach like you said.

[HollyMilo]

Can't you tell the pet owner that you will not be reimbursing anything until the vet has shown you the death cert? With the consent of the puppy owner, the vet would surely be able to tell you if the pup has died.

[Rubric]

@ellz....OMG lol...how did you know...that is exactly who I spoke to...the head vet nurse who also has a God complex

[BJean]

@ casowner...I have registered the litter, but they will all be registered in my name. The new owners will change it once they receieve the papers.

He knew my puppies were sick because I told him, I wanted to make sure he knew how urgent it was that he get his puppy to the vet ASAP. Apparently it was there from Thursday night to Sunday on the drip, and died yesterday...

BUT the vet told ME that his puppy was not as sick as mine and that the owner didnt have the resources to do a culture, so thats a breach like you said.

can you make an appointment with this vet?

I'd go in and ask him/her face to face

and if they wouldn't tell me whether the dog was dead or not

I'd point out that they were not so concerned about privacy when they were prepared to give out health updates.

Re the owner:

say you want an official certificate from the vet, stating that the pup is deceased - no different to a desexing or vaccination certificate.

And until then you're not entering into any more correspondance.

And while the pups exisitence is in 'limbo'

he's not getting a sniff of the papers either.

Edited May 18, 2010 by lilli

[Nic oh lah]

@ casowner...I have registered the litter, but they will all be registered in my name. The new owners will change it once they receieve the papers.

He knew my puppies were sick because I told him, I wanted to make sure he knew how urgent it was that he get his puppy to the vet ASAP. Apparently it was there from Thursday night to Sunday on the drip, and died yesterday...

BUT the vet told ME that his puppy was not as sick as mine and that the owner didnt have the resources to do a culture, so thats a breach like you said.

You have said they're registered in your name - so call the vet as you are the registered owner, therefore the dog, deceased or not, is still yours unless you've signed a clear contract of sale.

[ellz]

OK....been doing some thinking whilst tackling housework.....dangerous combination!

Do you have a local Community Legal Service nearby? Or a lawyer friend who would write a letter on your behalf?

Send this guy a certified letter on a legal letterhead telling him that under advice you require a copy of some form of certification as to the death of the puppy and that upon receipt of this you will seek further advice with regard to compensation.

This might at least a) get you the necessary documentation to make a decision as to how you compensate him b) throw him a loop because he is probably not expecting legal correspondence and it may buy you some time to make further enquiries with the ACTUAL vet and not the nurse with the God complex c) make him call off the dogs because he cannot push you around as he obviously would like to.

[JulesP]

Reading the first post isn't the owner asking for reimbursement of the papers? Not the actual papers. He probably wants reimbursement because he never received them, did pay for a papered dog and now he obviously can't do anything with them.

He really should have got the papers when he picked the pup up and IMO you as the breeder should have chipped the pups.

[megan_]

they guy is asking for $30. I'd pay him $30 and be done with it??

[Kirislin]

Reading the first post isn't the owner asking for reimbursement of the papers? Not the actual papers. He probably wants reimbursement because he never received them, did pay for a papered dog and now he obviously can't do anything with them.

He really should have got the papers when he picked the pup up and IMO you as the breeder should have chipped the pups.

I am not sure about this case but I hadn't got the papers back from Dogs vic when I sold the puppies. They didn't understand something I'd written on the paperwork so instead of writing or ringing me to ask, they just did nothing. It was months before I eventually got them.

[ellz]

He may only be asking for reimbursement for the price of the papers (or the papers themselves) NOW, but can you imagine what the reaction will be if the OP were to send him a couple of bucks in an envelope, considering that in "real" terms that is essentially all they are worth for an apparently deceased puppy?

The actual papers he cannot have, that is an ANKC rule. Papers for deceased animals are SUPPOSED to be returned to the controlling body for notation and disposal. What he'd want a copy for or why he would expect to get $30 for papers is apparently something that he has in his own mind. Would be interesting to find out exactly what his train of thought would be (trainwreck I'd imagine) but I for one am not putting up my hand to ask him!

[ellz]

Reading the first post isn't the owner asking for reimbursement of the papers? Not the actual papers. He probably wants reimbursement because he never received them, did pay for a papered dog and now he obviously can't do anything with them.

He really should have got the papers when he picked the pup up and IMO you as the breeder should have chipped the pups.

But the issue is, why does he need them if the pup is deceased? ANKC ruling is that they must be returned to the canine controlling body upon the death of the dog.

As for getting papers when he picked up the pup.....sometimes there are legitimate reasons for the papers NOT being ready when puppies are collected. Whilst it would be wonderful to have all paperwork sorted and ready when the puppies leave home, the reality is that sometimes things are held up.

It is not currently law for breeders in Victoria to microchip, although many do.

It WILL soon be compulsory for breeders Australia-wide to microchip puppies prior to registration with canine controlling bodies. Until then, yes, it would have been good if the puppy HAD been chipped but certainly the OP had no legal requirement to do so.

[Black Bronson]

@ casowner...I have registered the litter, but they will all be registered in my name. The new owners will change it once they receieve the papers.

He knew my puppies were sick because I told him, I wanted to make sure he knew how urgent it was that he get his puppy to the vet ASAP. Apparently it was there from Thursday night to Sunday on the drip, and died yesterday...

BUT the vet told ME that his puppy was not as sick as mine and that the owner didnt have the resources to do a culture, so thats a breach like you said.

That doesn't make sense . If the puppy was on a drip in care for that long, there is at least $1000 I would imagine..........$70 roughly for a stool culture which would normally be done early in the treatment process???. Who would refuse or not pay for a culture when the puppy is on drip therapy, or leave a puppy in care and just hope for the best without exploratory proceedures being done to determine illness???. Normal instinct is to know the reason why the puppy is sick and how it can be cured

Edited May 18, 2010 by Black Bronson