Persistence And Creativity

[corvus]

Whenever I think of persistence or creativity in dogs I can't get past clicker training and shaping 'cause it seems to apply so strongly there. If you were asked to rate your dog's persistence and creativity in training, would you be able to answer those questions? If so, what training methods do you use and how would you judge those traits?

[Cosmolo]

Rate in what terms- scale of 1-10? Or something else?

Good question too- i will have different answers for all my dogs.

[corvus]

I am thinking a frequency scale. As in, persists with training when not rewarded/punished never -> always. I'm thinking of the way some dogs give up quite quickly if things aren't going their way whereas other dogs keep at it. Kivi throws in the towel at the slightest provocation. He just throws himself on the ground in protest. He will at least get back up and have another go with encouragement, now, but man, I'd better make it easy. Erik tries something else or just tries the original thing harder.

[Loves Dogs]

I dont quite understand what you mean but sounds interesting. Kuta my 3 yr old is very enthusiastic with food rewards. She will try all her tricks infront of me even before I have asked her to do anything and always expects a treat at the end of an agility run. She will get worked up over a tug toy but I have to get her going first then take it away then she will do things for me for it but if its a choice between food and toys food wins by miles. Still working out my younger boy he is very inconsistent but he is only 7 months old and gets distracted easily. With consistence Kuta is pretty good except on the weavers! argggg sometimes she is great with entries (which I woory about) and then half way through she looses her drive and decides to not do any more but then other times she is so excited she passes the first few and when I ask her to stop she wants to finish the rest of them hope this is what your after?

[Loves Dogs]

sorry just redaing more of your replies.... Kuta is still quite persistant if she is at the start of her traing session with no rewards but towards the end if I dont keep up the rewards she would through the towel in to but to add to that if we are training a new trick or command or behaviour she will try anything to get the treat which I love about her.

[m-j]

I'm doing some scent dectection work with my Kelpie and tonight was the first time where she came to the training ground and was asked to search. Tonight she searched all the old hiding places several times, asked me to help (she has never done this as I have tried to keep me right out of the search other than to cue her to search) she did eventually find it but because this was he first time she did become a little creative, but her persistance waned a little which is what I have found when I ask her to do a little more (that could very well be a handler fault though) I fairly certain this will change with a little more experience .

cheers

M-J

ETA Roxie's persistance I'm saying will change with a little more experience, the handler will need a lot more experience. "sigh"

Edited May 18, 2010 by m-j

[corvus]

Do you think you can teach a dog to be more creative or persistent? I started off doing lots of free shaping with Kivi, but as he grew older he seemed to become less creative and the process more stressful. On the other hand, I think his persistence has improved with making sure we take very small steps, reward lots, and raise the criteria slowly.

Erik isn't a year old, yet, so it's hard to say. I find him to be a very creative dog in general. He makes his own fun if I don't direct his activities. I'm not sure whether creativity is separate to a willingness to try new things, though. I guess I'm thinking that a dog might be encouraged to try things it hasn't been rewarded for in the past, but it wouldn't necessarily come up with those new things itself unless it was creative?

I hope more people answer!

[Cosmolo]

Cosmo- very creative, extremely persistent. I believe this is because she has done alot of free shaping and has many behaviours in her repotoire- she knows so much that she is pretty sure she will hit on the behaviour i want with free shaping. She is a confident but soft dog, has done some training in prey drive, had some corrections in obedience training and now works predominantly with food rewards.

Georgie- not very creative but learning to be more persistent. She doesn't know as much as Cosmo and had extreme fear based issues when we got her as an adult dog so i think this initially influences how persistent she is- she needs alot more help than the other dogs. She really is getting there though- improving each time we train and to be honest, whenever we 'work' her we are always surprised at just how good she is! She has not done any shaping yet, has been trained with a combo of an e collar and food rewards and now really works in food drive.

Dexter- is in between Georgie and Cosmo in terms of both things. He doesn't think as independently as Cosmo so he is not as creative but he can be quite persistent, especially if he has done the skill before. He has alot of expression and enthusiasm in the things he knows- he throws himself into everything and i don't want to lose that. I haven't done any free shaping with him yet as i believe i need to build up some other things first for him- he will get confused if i push him to shape too soon. He has been trained with a combo of an e collar, food rewards, people rewards and prey drive rewards and will work for just about anything. He is a really fun dog to work- he'll never be as reliable or able to think like Cosmo can but his enthusiasm makes up for that in spades!

Jessie- Is probably the least creative out of the lot and definitely the least persistent. She was not always like that though- she's certainly changing as she ages. We have managed to improve this a little bit with some basic problems solving games (all of my dogs play with the Nina Ottuson games) but we are actually beginning to wonder if there is some very early dementia as Jess is nearly 11 and seems to be getting 'less intelligent' as she gets older. She enjoys doing things she knows well but struggles with new things at times. We don't push her because she is physically and mentally slowing so we just have her do the fun stuff she knows.

Gilbert- is the baby of the bunch and i think has the potential to be very similar to Cosmo. He is very persistent with a range of different things and i think the creativity will come as we train him further. He is VERY food motivated and VERY toy motivated and maybe just a little too confident and smart for his own good. It will be interesting to see how he develops- i think he will be ready to free shape sooner than Dexter and Georgie or at least at the same time.