MolassesLass Posted May 17, 2010 Share Posted May 17, 2010 ALL puppies in the litter have been put on MR, and rather than pay the money to downgrade to LR, the breeder has said MR or nothing but because the purchaser didn't wish to pay the "full" price, they have sold the puppy without papers instead. Ah I get what you mean, very dangerous practice. DogsQld will award the papers to the owner no matter what arrangment or monies were initially paid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nobul Posted May 17, 2010 Share Posted May 17, 2010 OK I will try and make it simple for future buyers A registered breeder ANKC (Australian National Kennel Council not any of those dodgy made up registries ) A breeder must register with their state EG DogsNSW if the breeder is in NSW etc The mother and Father MUST be on MAIN register and have no exclusions. The Registered breeder then must register the litter and register ALL puppies from that litter on either Main or Limited register (all states now including SA, WA you still dont have to) When you purchase a puppy from a registered breeder then the puppies will come with papers (they may not have them at the time of collecting your puppy EG in SA we register them and then DOGSSA send the papers to US the BREEDER FIRST then we have to transfer them to the NEW owner, all states have different rulings) There should NOT be a money difference on papers or no papers WHY because the papers cost us breeders stuff all money In SA it is $20.50 for Main register, $22.00 for Limited Register, then our transfer fee THAT the breeder pays which is $27.50 . So all up it costs the breeder either $48.00 or $49.50 not the hundreds of dollars that "dodgy " breeders charge. I would ask myself if they want a lot more for "papers" they are NOT a REGISTERED breeder. Example I have seen "dodgy breeders" waive the parents papers in front of unsuspecting buyers telling them it is $300 if you want papers , THESES BREEEDERS ARE NOT REGISTEREd , it is a con as most only want pets and papers they think are not needed. WRONG. Papers are PROOF that your puppy is a PUREBRED and the only proof. To Check it the breeder is truley a registered breeder Ask them their Name and Kennel Prefix and ring the states controlling body EG Dogs NSW, Dogs Vic, Dogs SA and make sure they ARE registered and CURRENT breeders. Main Register puppies most breeders will ask more money for than a LImited Register, The limited it pet only register , whereas the Main (without xclusions like Dogs vic has) will enable you to show and breed usually. Sorry OP but i think you have been ripped off by a dodgy breeder who know just what to say Hope this helps Cheers Julie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Bronson Posted May 17, 2010 Share Posted May 17, 2010 About 30 years ago when I bought my Rotti, I had the choice of buying her without papers or with papers, which cost an extra $100. This is in SA.But now if you are buying from a registered breeder they all come with papers, either limited or main registered. BF That used to be common in the old days Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dancinbcs Posted May 17, 2010 Share Posted May 17, 2010 the money was the reason i didnt get saffrons papers because her breeder said $800 with and $450 without so i went without Is it just me or does this sounds dodgy as hell? I would never purchase a dog without pedigree papers unless I was adopting from a shelter or rescue group. It seems to happen quite a fair bit where puppies that are sold as pets do not always come with limited reg. papers. Is it all that important? Yes it is important. Without papers you have no guarantee that the puppy is purebred, no guarantee who the parents are and therefore no guarantee of any health testing. With papers, if there is ever any dispute , DNA testing can confirm or refute the parentage. Without papers you are just buying a mutt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just love my dogs! Posted May 17, 2010 Share Posted May 17, 2010 I would be very very careful. We bought our Golden Retriever without papers from a breeder who claimed she was a pure bred. Well we were tricked! It turns out that she isn't a pure bred after all! In the future I will always buy a dog with papers unless I adopt it from a shelter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stef_83 Posted May 17, 2010 Share Posted May 17, 2010 I would be very very careful.We bought our Golden Retriever without papers from a breeder who claimed she was a pure bred. Well we were tricked! It turns out that she isn't a pure bred after all! In the future I will always buy a dog with papers unless I adopt it from a shelter. did it stop you loving and keeping this dog? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just love my dogs! Posted May 17, 2010 Share Posted May 17, 2010 I would be very very careful.We bought our Golden Retriever without papers from a breeder who claimed she was a pure bred. Well we were tricked! It turns out that she isn't a pure bred after all! In the future I will always buy a dog with papers unless I adopt it from a shelter. did it stop you loving and keeping this dog? No it didn't. We love her dearly and always will. We were just annoyed that we were lied to ;) and we probably paid too much for her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted May 17, 2010 Share Posted May 17, 2010 (edited) I would be very very careful.We bought our Golden Retriever without papers from a breeder who claimed she was a pure bred. Well we were tricked! It turns out that she isn't a pure bred after all! ;) In the future I will always buy a dog with papers unless I adopt it from a shelter. did it stop you loving and keeping this dog? What's that got to do with anything? JMLD did not get what she paid for. That's the issue here. In most states selling a pup without papers is a breach of an ANKC registered breeder's code of ethics. If they're prepared to breach that rule, it makes you wonder what other ethical standards have fallen by the wayside? Edited May 17, 2010 by poodlefan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stef_83 Posted May 17, 2010 Share Posted May 17, 2010 i didnt mean it to start anything just out of curiosity. i didnt know if this female was part of a breeding plan and wasnt sure if breeders would then rehome a dog that didnt suit there needs. whereas if she was just a pet dog i understand being annoyed but wondered if it would change her feeling towards the dog. i think if i found out saffron wasnt purebred id be mad but i love her so much that i my feelings for her wouldnt change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just love my dogs! Posted May 17, 2010 Share Posted May 17, 2010 I would be very very careful.We bought our Golden Retriever without papers from a breeder who claimed she was a pure bred. Well we were tricked! ;) It turns out that she isn't a pure bred after all! In the future I will always buy a dog with papers unless I adopt it from a shelter. did it stop you loving and keeping this dog? What's that got to do with anything? Stef did not get what she paid for. That's the issue here. In most states selling a pup without papers is a breach of an ANKC registered breeder's code of ethics. If they're prepared to breach that rule, it makes you wonder what other ethical standards have fallen by the wayside? Thanks. Do you know if this is a breach in Victoria? I'm beginning to wonder whether this breeder is operating a 'puppy farm'? There were a few different breeds of dogs and quite a lot of litters! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just love my dogs! Posted May 17, 2010 Share Posted May 17, 2010 i didnt mean it to start anything just out of curiosity. i didnt know if this female was part of a breeding plan and wasnt sure if breeders would then rehome a dog that didnt suit there needs. whereas if she was just a pet dog i understand being annoyed but wondered if it would change her feeling towards the dog. i think if i found out saffron wasnt purebred id be mad but i love her so much that i my feelings for her wouldnt change. I'm just annoyed that we were lied to and that we probably shouldn't have paid so much for her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GardenofEden Posted May 17, 2010 Author Share Posted May 17, 2010 (edited) I have always found it to be common practice in having to pay a substantial amount more if wanting to purchase a dog with full reg. papers. As I said in an earlier post, I spoke to a few breeders and all wanted far more money if I wanted a pup with full reg. I have found this to be always the case even as far back as 20 yrs ago. I am disappointed in finding out that this isn't always so and if not for this forum would not have known any differently given that I have never struck a breeder that was prepared to sell a pup with full reg. papers for the same price as a pup with limited reg. Edited May 17, 2010 by GardenofEden Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nic oh lah Posted May 17, 2010 Share Posted May 17, 2010 (edited) i didnt mean it to start anything just out of curiosity. i didnt know if this female was part of a breeding plan and wasnt sure if breeders would then rehome a dog that didnt suit there needs. whereas if she was just a pet dog i understand being annoyed but wondered if it would change her feeling towards the dog. i think if i found out saffron wasnt purebred id be mad but i love her so much that i my feelings for her wouldnt change. That's great for you - but I paid top $$$ for a pedigree dog that had the parents with all clear health scores and a pedigree as long as my arm, and yes, i'd love him regardless but i'd have every right to be pissed off if I found out I was lied to - it's not always about "your feelings" and "the cry of your heart for the love of your dog" - it's about breeding quality dogs and ethical responsible breeders being supported. I would be very concerned that you were told you'd have to pay $400 for papers - not saying Saffron isn't purebred, but i'd be doubtful about pedigrees. Edited May 17, 2010 by NicGSDlover Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RallyValley Posted May 17, 2010 Share Posted May 17, 2010 I think the worst thing is that if a dog in these circumstances got a preventable genetic disease, i.e PRA and you wanted to sue the breeder for the cost of treatment they can quite simply say "nope, thats not something I bred, prove it" and if you have no pedigree paperwork it would be something that is hard to prove. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stef_83 Posted May 17, 2010 Share Posted May 17, 2010 well i will give any rotti breeder the details i know and see if they know of a way i could track down to find out saffron pedigree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GardenofEden Posted May 17, 2010 Author Share Posted May 17, 2010 I read it as he was offered MR or no papers and didn't want MR so GoE took the no papers option. And was saying that the breeder offering MR papers means they aren't dodgy. Yes, that is pretty much what I meant. I didn't feel that I had any reason to be suspicious given that the option to purchase the pup with full reg. was made available to me. I really did not give any thought in trying to obtain limited reg. papers. I felt confident in the knowledge that I was purchasing a pedigree pup and am still confident in that thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nic oh lah Posted May 18, 2010 Share Posted May 18, 2010 well i will give any rotti breeder the details i know and see if they know of a way i could track down to find out saffron pedigree Do you have her Pedigree name? Or the kennel name? I'm surprised they didn't give you their prefix - can you contact them to get it or do they have a website? Any of that info may help you. Good luck - I hope it was just a misunderstanding with the breeder but with the prices you'd mentioned I'd suspect they're bieng a bit dodgy and I hope they've not swindled you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GardenofEden Posted May 18, 2010 Author Share Posted May 18, 2010 I think the point is that the puppy IS apparently registered but on MR which the purchaser didn't want. It would be interesting to find out if my theory about the breeder not downgrading the registration is on the mark. That is what I believe has happened.ALL puppies in the litter have been put on MR, and rather than pay the money to downgrade to LR, the breeder has said MR or nothing but because the purchaser didn't wish to pay the "full" price, they have sold the puppy without papers instead. The inference to MR and the breeder being dodgy is more the OP pointing out that if the breeder had been dodgy, they wouldn't have offered MR in the first place because it wouldn't have been available. That's how I read it anyway. Sounds like you may have hit the nail on the head ellz although I can't guarantee it at this stage until I speak to the breeder as it was never stipulated to me, at the time, that the pup was on full reg. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stef_83 Posted May 18, 2010 Share Posted May 18, 2010 well i will give any rotti breeder the details i know and see if they know of a way i could track down to find out saffron pedigree Do you have her Pedigree name? Or the kennel name? I'm surprised they didn't give you their prefix - can you contact them to get it or do they have a website? Any of that info may help you. Good luck - I hope it was just a misunderstanding with the breeder but with the prices you'd mentioned I'd suspect they're bieng a bit dodgy and I hope they've not swindled you. just looking for my old phone book with breeders number to see if she can give me the details Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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