Nic oh lah Posted May 17, 2010 Share Posted May 17, 2010 (edited) I don't really know as to why I wasn't supplied with limited reg. papers, but the breeder sounds very nice and genuine to me and I do have a great dog that I am over the moon about; I could not have hoped for a better cavalier. I'm sure serial killers have been known to sound "really nice" - . Just kidding - not meaning to cause offence I know as someone who recently purchased a pup that I would be concerned to not have received papers. Chase's Certificate didnt arrive until he was 11wks old - we took him home at 10wks, but I was provided a copy of the application for registration and the breeder is a very close friend so i knew it was above board. At the end of the day the registration of dogs (as far as is my knowledge) is to maintain breed standards and ethics in breeding, and to make sure people aren't just churning out litter after litter for anyone that will pay the price. As far as i'm concerned if you're paying top dollar for a dog you should have the peice of paper to put your mind at rest that corners aren't being cut. There are some great CKC in pounds and shelters too that don't have papers - I know you love your dog dearly (as i love mine) but at the end of the day if there's no papers then there's not proof of pedigree. I'm not diminishing your dog at all, but I am concerned as to why a breeder wouldn't want to register a dog or why they couldn't produce registration papers to verify that they have registered the animal - then again I work in Law so it's my job to be paranoid I personally wouldn't purchase from a breeder that allows people to purchase dogs without papers, and I wouldn't be impressed if they listed all their puppies on main register. Edited May 17, 2010 by NicGSDlover Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluefairy Posted May 17, 2010 Share Posted May 17, 2010 ML, it seems to be quite prevalent where reg. breeders sell pups without limited reg. papers. I am not fussed with that although I am surprised that it is law that they must supply limited reg. papers and yet opt not to do so. I do know for a fact that this breeder is indeed legitimate as he/she sent me photocopies of the pup's parents reg. papers. No problem with mutts, there are some beautiful mutts out there but I really wanted a CKCS.Another thing I have noticed is that pups with full reg. papers are always selling for an extra $100-$200. I have never come across a pup with full reg. papers selling for an extra $30 only. I'm like the other posters here....I have no idea how you can prove the photo copies of the registration papers of the pups parents are indeed your pups parents. Without a registration paper either limited or main, stamped and dated on official paper, that states your pups kennel name and the name of both the parents and grandparents etc. There is NOTHING to prove your dog has those parents, which is one reason for not getting papers with your pup. My pup was bought as a pet, but she is on Main register. The Limited and Main Registered pups were the same. I wanted Limited but she was the last of the litter so got the bonus of Main. I can show or breed her if I want, but she will be desexed asap and I don't have the time to show her. So no they don't always mean differing prices. BF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ellz Posted May 17, 2010 Share Posted May 17, 2010 but I am concerned as to why a breeder wouldn't want to register a dog or why they couldn't produce registration papers to verify that they have registered the animal. The dog IS apparently registered, but on Main Registration which the OP didn't want. As I suggested, chances are the breeder didn't want to, or couldn't be bothered downgrading the registration from Main to Limited. Depending upon when a puppy is sold, often the registration papers are NOT available at the time of the sale so non-production of the papers isn't necessarily a sinister thing. There can be many reasons for this.....not back from the controlling body, stud documentation not signed by stud dog owner for any number of reasons, breeder waiting to grade puppies prior to selecting those who are going to be registered on Main and those who are going to be registered on Limit.....just to name a few. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted May 17, 2010 Share Posted May 17, 2010 If the pup IS registered, the buyer should be provided with the pup's papers as proof that they are the registered owner of the pup or so that they can transfer the signed papers into their own name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MolassesLass Posted May 17, 2010 Share Posted May 17, 2010 The dog IS apparently registered, but on Main Registration which the OP didn't want. That's not how it reads to me? If you purchased her from Qld and from a registered breeder than she is supposed to come with papers and they are supposed to be put it the new owner's name by the seller - that is in the rules. It would have been nice to have limited reg. papers at least. I didn't want full registry as I have no intentions to breed or show. I was offered full rego by the breeder should I have been interested in breeding or showing but no mention of limited reg. papers. At the end of the day, no damage has been done I suppose. I do have a beautiful dog, the sort of dog with a temperament that I have always dreamed of. My other dogs are also beautiful but there is something extra special about my beautiful girl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ellz Posted May 17, 2010 Share Posted May 17, 2010 Well that's how what I have highlighted below reads to me. The dog IS apparently registered, but on Main Registration which the OP didn't want. That's not how it reads to me? If you purchased her from Qld and from a registered breeder than she is supposed to come with papers and they are supposed to be put it the new owner's name by the seller - that is in the rules. It would have been nice to have limited reg. papers at least. I didn't want full registry as I have no intentions to breed or show. I was offered full rego by the breeder should I have been interested in breeding or showing but no mention of limited reg. papers. At the end of the day, no damage has been done I suppose. I do have a beautiful dog, the sort of dog with a temperament that I have always dreamed of. My other dogs are also beautiful but there is something extra special about my beautiful girl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ellz Posted May 17, 2010 Share Posted May 17, 2010 And..... the breeder was prepared to sell the pup with full rego so it isn't a case of having ulterior motives in not selling pup with limited rego; if that was the case then I would presume that there would not have been the option of having a pup with full rego. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogsfevr Posted May 17, 2010 Share Posted May 17, 2010 . I didn't want full registry as I have no intentions to breed or show. I was offered full rego by the breeder should I have been interested in breeding or showing but no mention of limited reg. papers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MolassesLass Posted May 17, 2010 Share Posted May 17, 2010 (edited) I read it as he was offered MR or no papers and didn't want MR so GoE took the no papers option. And was saying that the breeder offering MR papers means they aren't dodgy. Edited May 17, 2010 by molasseslass Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mystiqview Posted May 17, 2010 Share Posted May 17, 2010 I have seen puppies advertised on a free website by registered breeders. Advertised as from pedigree parents but without papers. I know who the kennel is as the litter was also on their website. I think the rule has changed Australia wide now. Pups must come with papers. How that is done still varies from state to state. As previously mentioned, Qld, you are able to register pups straight into the new owner's name if it is known, otherwise it is registered in the breeder's name and a transfer done when the pup is sold. Anyone who wants to charge huge extra $$ for papers should IMO be reported to the CCC in that state. I can understand a difference in price between main and limit registration if the pup in question is of the quality. But to charge hundreds of $ extra for papers, is wrong and ripping people off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ellz Posted May 17, 2010 Share Posted May 17, 2010 I think the point is that the puppy IS apparently registered but on MR which the purchaser didn't want. It would be interesting to find out if my theory about the breeder not downgrading the registration is on the mark. That is what I believe has happened. ALL puppies in the litter have been put on MR, and rather than pay the money to downgrade to LR, the breeder has said MR or nothing but because the purchaser didn't wish to pay the "full" price, they have sold the puppy without papers instead. The inference to MR and the breeder being dodgy is more the OP pointing out that if the breeder had been dodgy, they wouldn't have offered MR in the first place because it wouldn't have been available. That's how I read it anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickojoy Posted May 17, 2010 Share Posted May 17, 2010 Why didn't the breeder just do a Non-Breeding Agreement and give the MR papers? This wouldn't have cost any extra and sent the forms to the QLD CCC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stef_83 Posted May 17, 2010 Share Posted May 17, 2010 im not sure the OP circumstances so im nto commenting on that. As for being told that papers cost $400 extra i thought that was normal. like i have previously said it was before my DOL days so i didnt know any better. i would never buy a dog without papers now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bow Wow Posted May 17, 2010 Share Posted May 17, 2010 Just be very careful!!! What proof do you have that health tests were done? I ask this because I purchased a CKCS from a ' supposedly good breeder' I also made sure to ask about health tests. It was confirmed that all of this breeders dogs had been tested. I purchased my dog on main register. Not a couple of days later I found out that this person who USED to be a good breeder and had showed alot of good dogs, turned into a puppy farmer. I had no proof of any health testing being done and could no longer take her word for it. I was frantic, as I had just lost my heart dog, and could not bear the thought of purchasing a puppy with out any health tests done on her parents. I was lucky, in that I could research Georgea's parents and grand/great parents from her papers. I found out that Georgea does come from dogs that have been heart tested. So this has reassured me no end. Can I ask the pedigree name of your dog? If it were me, I would be getting my hands on the papers, and tracing the dogs heritage to see if they have been heart tested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nic oh lah Posted May 17, 2010 Share Posted May 17, 2010 Just be very careful!!! What proof do you have that health tests were done?I ask this because I purchased a CKCS from a ' supposedly good breeder' I also made sure to ask about health tests. It was confirmed that all of this breeders dogs had been tested. I purchased my dog on main register. Not a couple of days later I found out that this person who USED to be a good breeder and had showed alot of good dogs, turned into a puppy farmer. I had no proof of any health testing being done and could no longer take her word for it. I was frantic, as I had just lost my heart dog, and could not bear the thought of purchasing a puppy with out any health tests done on her parents. I was lucky, in that I could research Georgea's parents and grand/great parents from her papers. I found out that Georgea does come from dogs that have been heart tested. So this has reassured me no end. Can I ask the pedigree name of your dog? If it were me, I would be getting my hands on the papers, and tracing the dogs heritage to see if they have been heart tested. I strongly recommend and naming of names be done by PM though guys - i'm sure Troy has enough drama on a daily basis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ellz Posted May 17, 2010 Share Posted May 17, 2010 Why didn't the breeder just do a Non-Breeding Agreement and give the MR papers? This wouldn't have cost any extra and sent the forms to the QLD CCC. You'd have to ask the breeder that. Until the OP clarifies the situation and maybe asks the breeder, nobody can say anything for sure, it is all speculation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nic oh lah Posted May 17, 2010 Share Posted May 17, 2010 Why didn't the breeder just do a Non-Breeding Agreement and give the MR papers? This wouldn't have cost any extra and sent the forms to the QLD CCC. You'd have to ask the breeder that. Until the OP clarifies the situation and maybe asks the breeder, nobody can say anything for sure, it is all speculation. Yep - we're all reading it differently. Before we can comment much further we need to know if the dog has Main Reg. Papers or none at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mystiqview Posted May 17, 2010 Share Posted May 17, 2010 Bindi Boo. Those things happen. I know of a couple BC breeders who claim all dogs are health tested when in fact they are not. I have a letter on the kennel's letterhead stating all dogs are clear for the genetic diseases via parent. However I know for a FACT that one dog is a carrier of one of the genetic diseases. There have been cases of breeders forging or altering test results. There have been cases of breeders saying dogs are from X and Y when in fact they are not from the dogs listed on the pedigree. The true parents were known to the breeder and they knowingly registered the litter incorrectly. I know of cases where a person will send a bitch to a dog for a stud. Thinking they are getting the dog they paid for, the breeder has mated it to a son or another dog in the yard and still charged and told the bitch owner X dog sired the litter as per arrangement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ophnbark Posted May 17, 2010 Share Posted May 17, 2010 I have registered pups on the main register when I have been trying to decide whether to run on one or more pups. Don't know about other states but in Victoria you can sign the back of the main register papers with conditions such as "not to be bred from" which is what I did in one case. BTW, all of my pups are registered and are sold as such with no extra cost, there is also no difference in price between main or limited register for pups we sell. IMHO a pup's papers are it's birth certificate and should go with the pup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bow Wow Posted May 17, 2010 Share Posted May 17, 2010 Bindi Boo.Those things happen. I know of a couple BC breeders who claim all dogs are health tested when in fact they are not. I have a letter on the kennel's letterhead stating all dogs are clear for the genetic diseases via parent. However I know for a FACT that one dog is a carrier of one of the genetic diseases. There have been cases of breeders forging or altering test results. There have been cases of breeders saying dogs are from X and Y when in fact they are not from the dogs listed on the pedigree. The true parents were known to the breeder and they knowingly registered the litter incorrectly. I know of cases where a person will send a bitch to a dog for a stud. Thinking they are getting the dog they paid for, the breeder has mated it to a son or another dog in the yard and still charged and told the bitch owner X dog sired the litter as per arrangement. That is disgraceful, but unfortunately not surprising When I plan on bringing another dog into the family, there will be no stone left unturned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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