Is An American Staffordshire Terrier A Pitbull?

[Just love my dogs!]

No..

Almost like saying a Vizla is a Wei.

They look extremely similar just different colours.

Completely different in size and many many other areas too. Origins, country, temperament, EVERYTHING.

I voted Yes, although I have to admit to knowing nothing about these breeds apart from knowing several amstaffs and having 2 pitbulls as neighbours (yes, they are not allowed here).

I'm a bit confused too as to how staffords and bull terriers came up in the topic. but obviously I've missed something.

;)

I voted no. I think they are two completely different breeds. I don't think it's fair to give the Amstaff a bad name by comparing it to a pit bull.

[RottnBullies]

I voted no. I think they are two completely different breeds. I don't think it's fair to give the Amstaff a bad name by comparing it to a pit bull.

You've obviously missed everything In this thread, but thanks for the I really needed It!

[tybrax]

An American Staffordshire Terrier is an American Pitbull Terrier. Anyone that says otherwise is wrong, it's not debatable.

They did not come from a "similar" gene pool, they came from the same gene pool. AST's were bred from pedigree APBT's and nothing else.

Also the AST has not been bred exclusively along AST lines for 75 years, its been bred that way for about 40 at best. The AKC re-opened its stud books to UKC APBT's as recently as 1973.

Are they the same breed ? The answer to that is "sometimes". That is, an American Staffordshire Terrier is an American Pitbull Terrier, but an American Pitbull Terrier is not necessarily an American Staffordshire Terrier.

;) Great post Lo Pan. tybrax

[WreckitWhippet]

According to the CCCQ they are not the same and to make sure the Amstaff remains free from BSL, there needs to be as much distance placed between them and the pit bull as possible.

[Greytmate]

They look the same, they share most of their genes.

But they are not the same.

One is a recognised registered breed, so there is a body that has some 'control' over their breeding direction selection. The good individuals can be identified from the bad. The really bad temperament dogs couldn't even be taken to a dog show, so that rules out some of them. The breeders are in a position to do even more to help their breed. But they need to concentrate on their breed's strengths, and not join the losing Team Pitbull.

Pitbulls are not registered or recognised in Australia, and there is really no accurate way to identify them as a separate breed. While that makes the idea of banning them problematic, it also makes it hard to argue why a ban should be lifted.

I would never suggest that people buy a Pitbull over an Amstaff. Those arguing that they are the same, why have pitbulls at all? Those that are arguing the differences had better be able to explain how those differences make the pitbull desirable as an unrestricted pet. High levels of 'gameness' seems to be all that is ever mentioned. I can't see the attraction, as many amstaffs are already quite 'game' enough.

If we look at other types of BSL, some greyhounds are covered by muzzle laws, some are not. The dogs are almost identical genetically. But it is the differences that mean one will have legal restrictions and one will not. The argument that papered dogs should be banned because they look very like pitbulls does not wash with me. It is how a dog acts that needs to be looked at.

[DerRottweiler]

According to the CCCQ they are not the same and to make sure the Amstaff remains free from BSL, there needs to be as much distance placed between them and the pit bull as possible.

This.

I love APBTs too and I do not see them as a lost cause....however, Amstaffs are a different breed.

All dogs share the same DNA, you just breed for different characteristics and traits. Amstaffs and ABPTs have different characteristics and traits. Both are great dogs however.

Oh, I voted no.

[jackie_a1]

Just love my dog that statement made me cringe.

Well I read somewhere the QLD government is recognizing the amstaff now as the same breed as a pitbull and is restricting both?

Moving away from BSL I think because so many people are being exposed to different mutts and bully hybrids they don't actually know what an amstaff and or pitbull truly looks like. And comments like the one Justlovemydog said really hurts the breeds reputation especially coming from someone who is on this forum. I thought comments like that were reserved for misinformed general public. I was wrong

[BJean]

According to the CCCQ they are not the same and to make sure the Amstaff remains free from BSL, there needs to be as much distance placed between them and the pit bull as possible.

This.

I love APBTs too and I do not see them as a lost cause....however, Amstaffs are a different breed.

All dogs share the same DNA, you just breed for different characteristics and traits. Amstaffs and ABPTs have different characteristics and traits. Both are great dogs however.

Oh, I voted no.

Can you look at a dog which might be an Amstaff or APBT

and ascertain from its appearance

what it's actual breed is?

ie: what physical traits do AmStaffs have that APBT's dont, which allow an AmStaff to be identified from APBT?

Edited May 18, 2010 by lilli

[MolassesLass]

Can you look at a Border Collie and an Australian Shepherd and tell which is which every time?

Edited May 18, 2010 by molasseslass

[BJean]

Can you look at a Border Collie and an Australian Shepherd and tell which is which every time?

I dont know those breeds so I have no idea -

what characteristics does a BC have that an Aus Shep doesn't?

Can a BC not be determined from an Aus Shep other based on characteristics and traits?

I never knew that ...

How do BCs and AusSheps go in the working group line up?

Does it ever look like there is two of the same breed in the group?

Has a judges ever mistaken them for being one or the other? Has a judge ever not know which breed he/she is looking at? (wrt the dog being a BC or AusShep)

I suppose we could do comparisons for all breeds and use bad examples of each and then who knows what the real breed actually is, would be kind of like a lucky dip ....

but on the whole - in general -

can you ascertain an Amstaff from an APBT

based on characteristics and traits?

You cant ascertain Kangal from Anatolian

from what I know you cant ascertain Amstaff from APBT.

BUT

AmStaff & APBT are not my penchant - so maybe there are charateristics that AmStaff's have which APBT dont ???

Edited May 18, 2010 by lilli

[MolassesLass]

Can you look at a Border Collie and an Australian Shepherd and tell which is which every time?

I dont know those breeds so I have no idea -

what characteristics does a BC have that an Aus Shep doesn't?

Can they not be determined one from the other based on their characteristics and traits?

I never knew that?

How do they go in the working group line up?

Do they ever look like there is two of the same breed in the group?

I suppose we could do comparisons for all breeds and use bad examples of each and then who knows what the real breed actually is, would be kind of like a lucky dip ....

The ANKC standards are quite different but there can easily be mistakes even with well bred examples. Yes, esp. in the showring does it often look like the same breed.

And yeah there are quite a few breeds where you can mistake a dog as another similar breed. I guess that's why I asked because I don't think looking similar means things are the same.

Edited May 18, 2010 by molasseslass

[Monah]

Can you look at a Border Collie and an Australian Shepherd and tell which is which every time?

I dont know those breeds so I have no idea -

what characteristics does a BC have that an Aus Shep doesn't?

Can a BC not be determined from an Aus Shep other based on characteristics and traits?

I never knew that ...

How do BCs and AusSheps go in the working group line up?

Does it ever look like there is two of the same breed in the group?

Has a judges ever mistaken them for being one or the other? Has a judge ever not know which breed he/she is looking at? (wrt the dog being a BC or AusShep)

I suppose we could do comparisons for all breeds and use bad examples of each and then who knows what the real breed actually is, would be kind of like a lucky dip ....

but on the whole - in general -

can you ascertain an Amstaff from an APBT

based on characteristics and traits?

You cant ascertain Kangal from Anatolian

from what I know you cant ascertain Amstaff from APBT.

BUT

AmStaff & APBT are not my penchant - so maybe there are charateristics that AmStaff's have which APBT dont ???

Molasseslass, sorry, I'm not sure about the BC thing either, but the aussies I've seen have all had bob tails? is this not a major difference? also appear (to me who is NOT knowledgeable even though I have a BC) to have a sturdier skull and jaw than a BC? Honest query as I've never thought about confusing the two.xx

[MolassesLass]

Molasseslass, sorry, I'm not sure about the BC thing either, but the aussies I've seen have all had bob tails? is this not a major difference? also appear (to me who is NOT knowledgeable even though I have a BC) to have a sturdier skull and jaw than a BC? Honest query as I've never thought about confusing the two.xx

Some lines have bob tails but most were docked before the rule changed and now have full tails. An Aussie should have more bone than a BC by the standard but that isn't always the case (even in the well bred).

[altheau]

well there you go, I did not even realise that they were that closely related, I thought that they where only realted in that they were both in the same breed group.

Very interesting read, great topic.

I think this same problem is an issue for all domestic animals as one group of owners travel down a slightly diffrent breeding path then another, I am sure you can find very similar kinds of examples for all of them. Very interesting stuff I think =]

[BJean]

Can you look at a Border Collie and an Australian Shepherd and tell which is which every time?

I dont know those breeds so I have no idea -

what characteristics does a BC have that an Aus Shep doesn't?

Can they not be determined one from the other based on their characteristics and traits?

I never knew that?

How do they go in the working group line up?

Do they ever look like there is two of the same breed in the group?

I suppose we could do comparisons for all breeds and use bad examples of each and then who knows what the real breed actually is, would be kind of like a lucky dip ....

The ANKC standards are quite different but there can easily be mistakes even with well bred examples. Yes, esp. in the showring does it often look like the same breed.

And yeah there are quite a few breeds where you can mistake a dog as another similar breed. I guess that's why I asked because I don't think looking similar means things are the same.

Okay I think there is a difference between being able to mistake a dog for another breed

and

ALWAYS having no idea

and no means to tell if a dog is breed A or breed B.

With Kangal and Anatolian

you'd be guessing each time

and you have no means to tell if a dog is registered Kangal or registered Anatolian.

Do Amstaff & APBT fall into the genuine doppleganger category like KD/ASD

or

are they like BC and AusShep?

If they are like BC & AusShep,

what characteristics do AmStaffs have that APBT's dont?

Edited May 18, 2010 by lilli

[jacqui835]

Don't believe so. Staffies are shorter and fatter. At the park I go to, there is a guy with an am staff who is huge, but he's still fatter/stockier than another dog that the owner claims is a pitbull. The pitbull looks identical to Caesar's Junior, and is a sweet though intense dog. It is taller, still muscular but leaner.

[TessiesTracey]

Well I read somewhere the QLD government is recognizing the amstaff now as the same breed as a pitbull and is restricting both?

According to local news, registrations of AST's & crossbreeds have been frozen.

And, according to a work colleague any owners of currently registered AST's will be written to and have 60 days to remove the dog from the Gold Coast. (Not sure how true this is, I just can't imagine it being enforcable nor possible?).

[jackie_a1]

Hey Tes,

So they ALL have to get rid of am staffs, pitts etc? What about Am staff registered breeders they're not exempt? By remove they mean?

[BoStoNmAdNeSs]

I voted no. I think they are two completely different breeds. I don't think it's fair to give the Amstaff a bad name by comparing it to a pit bull.

And you base your 'thoughts' that they are two completely different breeds on what..?

[arawnhaus]

i voted yes