Breeders' Conditions When Selling A Puppy

[Wazzat Xolo]

Black Bronson, you say the most amazing things across different threads.....what's your deal....are you just trying to bait people or are you truely serious about what comes out of your mouth?

;)

[ellz]

1. There is a pick in every litter, but whether that pick is a show/breeding prospect is an entirely different story.

2. If a purchaser wants a Main Register dog, then they can simply "shop around" until they find a breeder who will sell them one. I'd bet pounds to peanuts they are out there in every breed. But in SOME breeds, you can pretty much guarantee that a breeder who will sell an unknown with no "strings attached" is probably little more than a registered BYB.

3. Limited Registration is essentially the equivalent of having a dog purchased with "no papers". The BIGGEST and by far most important detail is that the paperwork shows that the dog is purebred and the breed that it has been portrayed as. Purchase a puppy "without papers" from many sources and you'll be lucky to get that kind of identification guarantee.

4. Not every reputable breeder sells their puppies with strings attached. But generally those who do, don't so much want "control" but simply want to ensure that the puppy is reared into a healthy, sane dog in the same manner in which the breeder would have done so themselves.

5. There is no shame in having a dog with Limited Registration. What it DOES mean is that most breeders care enough about their prefix and bloodlines to not want to see them perpetuated in ways over which they cannot control but WILL invariably be blamed!

6. Showing desexed dogs isn't JUST a pet parade. There is an old saying "it is a shame he/she had never been bred from, but it is a sin had they never been seen!" I see properly run desexed classes and a desexed title as yet another avenue to evaluate potential additions to my breeding program. Some of the best dogs I've ever set eyes on have been desexed pets in somebody's backyard. And if they'd only had Limited Registration papers, I may well have been able to find out who bred them so that I could "go to the source".

[Rebanne]

Yeah, what if they do decide to show that dog in the future... well that's a bit of bad luck on their part because they should have bought a show quality puppy in the first place. If it is on limited register, the breeder obviously doesn't want it shown or bred from.

not always, sometimes there aren't show homes available, so the stunning show prospect is placed into a pet home on limited rego. Plenty of stories here on DOL telling about the wonderful pet who would have made a stunning show dog.

[Tassie]

pretty much a statement of good intentions.

Things like Ivemectin (commonly found in heart worm meds) and collies are concerning as collies are sensitive to Ivemectin and it can kill. Not too bad with BCs, but still possible.

High protein diets with Dalmatians are also known issues.

Things like this should be observed by puppy buyers and a responsibility of breeders to inform puppy buyers of known issues within the chosen breed

Our BC boy died from poisoning from the annual heartworm injection. He was a rescue, and we hadn't been told anything about risks involved with certain vaccines. We simply trusted our vet (we didn't know we had any reason not to) when they offered the injection, and after a full year of on-and-off illness, with us having no idea what was going on, he passed 6 weeks after the second injection from a massive haemorrhage (sp).

So, there is validity in vaccination conditions I think. I think going so far as to say you cannot vaccinate your dog ever is going too far, but making a point of educating new puppy buyers (and warning against) certain vaccines and medications can in the end save the dog's life. I wish we'd had the knowledge. ;)

add: I think some of those conditions are rather ridiculous and would ward off many a pet puppy buyer.

I advise my puppy buyers to steer clear of the yearly heartworm injection. I tell them it is ultimately their choice, however as the injection is an *mectin product, some collies may be sensitive to it. I know of BC people who use it without issue. I know of breeders who use it without issue. The company who makes the product of course claim it is safe to use on collies. And people who may have been using the monthly form of it, will not think twice about going to the yearly form for convenience.

I prefer the monthly heartworm. For one, if there is going to be a reaction to it, it is a month base and not a year base if you needed to try to counteract it. It is important to note, the heartworm injection is different to the vaccinations. And like ANY medication, reactions can be individual.

I'm concerned now. Neither our breeder or our vet mentioned anything about bcs being sensitive to heartworming. we dont use the injection, so is it only this that causes problems? or is it things like tablets and advocate also?

While I personally won't use the yearly injection (after the experience of another DOLer whose BC had an anaphylactic reaction to it - fortunately the dog was able to be saved), there is a lot of IMO unnecessary concern about ivermectin sensitivity in Border Collies. (It is a serious issue in Collie Roughs (and Smooths?) and probably in Australian Shepherds. As has been said, if you are really concerned, there is a genetic test available. Most of the work in this area has been done at Washington State University - there is good info and a breed list Here and information about the genetic test Test.

The list of drugs which may be problematic for dogs with the mdr1 gene mutation is List of problematic drugs

[RallyValley]

Limit Register is great for gundogs, if you want to compete in retrieveing you must have an ANKC papered dog. Before limit register this would have been a nightmare to police, having to send pups that weren't nessecarily breed quality home on main. People still want to try retrieveing but get discouraged when they find they can't compete because there dogs aren't papered.

[Fleuri]

Yeah, what if they do decide to show that dog in the future... well that's a bit of bad luck on their part because they should have bought a show quality puppy in the first place. If it is on limited register, the breeder obviously doesn't want it shown or bred from.

not always, sometimes there aren't show homes available, so the stunning show prospect is placed into a pet home on limited rego. Plenty of stories here on DOL telling about the wonderful pet who would have made a stunning show dog.

So, the breeder can't change a pet placed(stunning show prospect) on limited register to Main register if both owner and breeder agree? Sorry if this is a dum question? I don't show or breed. Dedicated pet owner only.

[stormie]

The breeder can upgrade the papers from Limited to Main

[Bilbo Baggins]

As stormie said but it can only be done once.

[Ker]

Back on topic...

I wouldn't buy from a breeder with those restrictions. I like and trust my vet (been going to them for about 28 years) and no way would I stuff about taking the dog back to the breeder if it cut it's foot or something! Besides, there are NO breeders in SA for the breed I want!

I don't agree with heartworm injection anyhow, but I will vaccinate my dog, although only every 2 years. I want to be able to take my dog out and about, pretty much anywhere I go, so I need them to have some protection.

I will always desex, every dog and every cat I own. I have three purebred cats that are all desexed. Maybe I might want to show one day (especially if I get a pup in the breed I've been researching!) so the news there will be a neuter class is GREAT! Not desexing until the pup has reached adulthood, that's fine and I would ask the breeder what age they recommend me to do it. I've NO wish to ever breed!

I feed Advance to my dog, and bones, and I am really happy with it and my dogs condition.

NO WAY would I agree to perhaps giving the dog up if later down the track, the breeder might want it back!

I totally understand breeders putting restrictions on the sale of their pups. But only reasonable restrictions. Ethical registered breeders put their heart and soul, and a LOT of time and money into breeding beautiful dogs. Of course they want them all (even the pet ones) to go to great homes and their lines not to be out there indisciminately.

If I was your friend (and didn't know why not to buy from pet stores and BYB's) and was treated like that, I would probably be very discouraged and perhaps look elsewhere.

[ellz]

Registration can be upgraded to Main from Limit (and downgraded from Main to Limit) once upon application to the relevant state controlling body.

I have done this. I sold a dog to a guy in Victoria with the proviso that at a later stage if he wished to show, a (specialist judge) friend in Melbourne would evaluate the dog and if he felt the dog to be of sufficient merit, I would upgrade the rego to MR. I had to write to the TCA, the owner had to write to the TCA and the upgrade fee had to be paid at the same time. It was taken to council for consideration and the upgrade was done.

I'm not sure if the same procedure still applies.

[~Anne~]

There are zealouts in every area of life. Dog breeding is simply just another area. I would not purchase from a breeder like which you have described, because to me, that kind of blinkered and 1 dimensional view surely must also spill over into their breeding program.

A balanced view, and thorough knowledge, is what I would be looking for in a breeder.

There are loads of sane breeders out there, I'd keep looking until one is found.

[whippets]

I still can't fathom why some people insist that most dogs on limited reg, as a pet, is an inferior dog. Some of the best examples of breeds are sitting in peoples backyards. I see nothing wrong with that at all. Pet owners deserve to get good quality dogs and they do. Alot of breeders send their good pups to pet homes if they can't keep them themselves.

Breeders reclaiming a dog because it is good enough to breed and show is pretty harsh on pet owners.

[Fleuri]

The breeder can upgrade the papers from Limited to Main

As stormie said but it can only be done once.

Registration can be upgraded to Main from Limit (and downgraded from Main to Limit) once upon application to the relevant state controlling body.

I have done this. I sold a dog to a guy in Victoria with the proviso that at a later stage if he wished to show, a (specialist judge) friend in Melbourne would evaluate the dog and if he felt the dog to be of sufficient merit, I would upgrade the rego to MR. I had to write to the TCA, the owner had to write to the TCA and the upgrade fee had to be paid at the same time. It was taken to council for consideration and the upgrade was done.

I'm not sure if the same procedure still applies.

Thanks you.

[W Sibs]

The only condition I got from Emmy's breeder is because I'm buying her for a pet, Emmy is sold on limited registered and on the condition that I get the desexed asap. I have no problem with this condition because I was going to get her desexed anyway.

Although, I did have a choice of buying her on main registration, if I had interested in showing and breeding her. She is a show quality dog.

[nickojoy]

I looked at a pup a couple of months ago, the conditions were the pup remained in the breeders name until I proved that the pup was shown at least 10 times. After I had supplied the paperwork of the shows, the pup's paperwork would be sent to myself. I had to live in the same state as the breeder. This is only if I wanted the pup on main register to show. There was no limits on the limited register (well only the normal, sold as pet only).

If the Sire was used only as a stud and not owned by the breeder, then both Sire and Dam owners have to sign to upgrade/downgrade on the register? Or only the breeder?

[ellz]

If the Sire was used only as a stud and not owned by the breeder, then both Sire and Dam owners have to sign to upgrade/downgrade on the register? Or only the breeder?

Only the breeder and registered owner can apply for upgrade/downgrade.

[GardenofEden]

I don't agree with yearly vaccination but it's dangerous not to vaccinate EVER - Dr Jean Dodds recommends people vaccinate when the dog is a pup, and then once again a year later. Who on earth wouldn't vaccinate AT ALL?? I would be walking away for sure!

And the breeder can take the dog back if they decide it's show quality - bugger off! As a pet buyer I would NEVER agree to that.

Yep, agree. Puppy shots, booster 12 mths later and then no more shots. There are quite a few breeders that reach an agreement with the puppy buyer in which they can breed with it if the pup matures to show quality standards; I guess that is between the breeder and the new owner. I don't personally like the idea of that and would never enter into such an agreement.

[GardenofEden]

I still can't fathom why some people insist that most dogs on limited reg, as a pet, is an inferior dog. Some of the best examples of breeds are sitting in peoples backyards. I see nothing wrong with that at all. Pet owners deserve to get good quality dogs and they do. Alot of breeders send their good pups to pet homes if they can't keep them themselves.

Breeders reclaiming a dog because it is good enough to breed and show is pretty harsh on pet owners.

Reclaiming a dog? Hell no! What? one rears the pup and then the breeder feels it is within her or his rights to claim it back? over my dead body

You are bloody right in saying that a dog on limited reg is in no way inferior; I have also seen some show quality pets that are much loved as simply four legged members of the family.

[nickojoy]

I still can't fathom why some people insist that most dogs on limited reg, as a pet, is an inferior dog. Some of the best examples of breeds are sitting in peoples backyards. I see nothing wrong with that at all. Pet owners deserve to get good quality dogs and they do. Alot of breeders send their good pups to pet homes if they can't keep them themselves.

Breeders reclaiming a dog because it is good enough to breed and show is pretty harsh on pet owners.

Reclaiming a dog? Hell no! What? one rears the pup and then the breeder feels it is within her or his rights to claim it back? over my dead body

You are bloody right in saying that a dog on limited reg is in no way inferior; I have also seen some show quality pets that are much loved as simply four legged members of the family.

A few months ago the owner had posted on here that the bitch wasn't right (wasn't at the standard to breed from) and booked it in for desexing and had a new home lined up for her, the breeder was reading the replies here on DOL and rang the owner and said that was not to happen. The bitch wasn't allowed to be desexed as per the agreement, the agreement was written on their website under the pups details. The contract between the new owner and the breeder wasn't clear enough, (verbal) bitch had to go back to the breeder for a single mating, now bitch is pregnant, breeder and owner go halves in litter and bitch becomes fully owned by owner. The new owner had no choice in what Sired the litter either, he was DNA tested after the mating, I just hope he is clear! So producing low quality pups. I am unsure if the breeder has any restrictions on the registration of the litter if it is main or limited. HOPE NOT, hope they all are allowed to be limited registered or are allowed to be desexed prior to rehoming! Both the bitches from this litter it is happening to, the 2nd bitch hasn't yet come into season.

[Rebanne]

Yeah, what if they do decide to show that dog in the future... well that's a bit of bad luck on their part because they should have bought a show quality puppy in the first place. If it is on limited register, the breeder obviously doesn't want it shown or bred from.

not always, sometimes there aren't show homes available, so the stunning show prospect is placed into a pet home on limited rego. Plenty of stories here on DOL telling about the wonderful pet who would have made a stunning show dog.

So, the breeder can't change a pet placed(stunning show prospect) on limited register to Main register if both owner and breeder agree? Sorry if this is a dum question? I don't show or breed. Dedicated pet owner only.

yes they can but my point was limited registered pups are not faulty or 2nd class