Breeders' Conditions When Selling A Puppy

[ellz]

I'm one of those breeders who put those going to pet homes on the limit register ( regardless of the show potential ) and sells/givesaway/co-own those on the main register to known and approved show homes.

+ 1

[Steve]

This thread is just going around in circles. I don't agree with 'over the top' conditions being placed on the sale of a puppy, but then everyone will have a different idea of where the line is drawn between 'over the top' and 'reasonable'. At the end of the day, if you don't agree with the conditions - you just have to go looking elsewhere to get what you are after.

My advice to puppy buyers is this: If the puppy is of good quality and sold on limited register, go elsewhere as the conditions IMO are "over the top" as essentially, you are purchasing in reality nothing more than what used to be formally recognised as an unpapered dog

Don't be fooled by the reasons why "your" puppy on limited register is best for you, it isn't best for you at all. Your integrity is being challenged what you may do with the dog and the breeder doesn't trust your intentions for one. Secondly, the choice to show or breed is your choice to make.........it's your dog, your life.

You have done the right thing avoiding pet shops and BYB's to purchase a health tested pure breed dog. If you get the run around with restrictions and closed shop tactics to result in an unpapered dog, why not have a look at some rescue dogs instead which have the same restrictions as the limited register pure breed and are also in great need for a home

Im not sure you quite get what the pedigree system is all about.

[Black Bronson]

This thread is just going around in circles. I don't agree with 'over the top' conditions being placed on the sale of a puppy, but then everyone will have a different idea of where the line is drawn between 'over the top' and 'reasonable'. At the end of the day, if you don't agree with the conditions - you just have to go looking elsewhere to get what you are after.

My advice to puppy buyers is this: If the puppy is of good quality and sold on limited register, go elsewhere as the conditions IMO are "over the top" as essentially, you are purchasing in reality nothing more than what used to be formally recognised as an unpapered dog

Don't be fooled by the reasons why "your" puppy on limited register is best for you, it isn't best for you at all. Your integrity is being challenged what you may do with the dog and the breeder doesn't trust your intentions for one. Secondly, the choice to show or breed is your choice to make.........it's your dog, your life.

You have done the right thing avoiding pet shops and BYB's to purchase a health tested pure breed dog. If you get the run around with restrictions and closed shop tactics to result in an unpapered dog, why not have a look at some rescue dogs instead which have the same restrictions as the limited register pure breed and are also in great need for a home

I'm sorry but IMO that's terrible advice, it is far from being over the top just to have a dog on limited register. Most breeders FULLY explain what the registry means so there is no ripping off, or over the top demands going on.

YES it is YOUR choice if you want to breed or show, which is why you should buy a dog papered accordingly. If you want to show, buy on main register, if you just want a pet then go with limited.

These days a dog that comes with no papers at all is from a less than reputable breeder.

By providing limited register papers at least you know there is a good chance that breeder is a good one and registered with the ANKC.

The breeder isn't "challenging your integrity" they are covering their own @rse because I can tell you now, I can't count on my fingers and toes the amount of people who have lied to and screwed over their dogs breeder.

Shaar, I am referring to breeders who won't sell on main at all for the opportunity to buy an appropriately papered dog???.

I'm one of those breeders who put those going to pet homes on the limit register ( regardless of the show potential ) and sells/givesaway/co-own those on the main register to known and approved show homes.

Tell me why it is, that I should allow every Tom Dick and Harry that wants a main register dog, to have one ? My dogs come from some of the most successfull lines and kennels in the country, their immediate pedigrees contain multi BIS and BISS winners, the dogs themselves have their titles, their close relatives have proven time and again their worth in the ring and as breeding animals.

I don't have the right to take that and spread it around the countryside willy nilly , nor do I want to.

Those that have come before me, have worked bloody hard to put those dogs on the ground and I respect that. When they handed me the dogs, they made me a custodian of their lines and hard work.

Tom, Dick & Harry can't breed under your prefix ..........so what's it matter if their progeny has one of your dogs involved???. If the progeny is no good using your male and an inadequate bitch is not your fault. But is it more the use of your male with a better bitch and Tom, Dick or Harry's kennel earns some wins over yours that you are worried about???.

None the less, if T,D or H are producing better dogs than you..........that's good for the breed isn't it???.

Sell them on main, throw your hat in the ring like a true competitor............any one can keep winning with a shop closed to competition

[Black Bronson]

This thread is just going around in circles. I don't agree with 'over the top' conditions being placed on the sale of a puppy, but then everyone will have a different idea of where the line is drawn between 'over the top' and 'reasonable'. At the end of the day, if you don't agree with the conditions - you just have to go looking elsewhere to get what you are after.

My advice to puppy buyers is this: If the puppy is of good quality and sold on limited register, go elsewhere as the conditions IMO are "over the top" as essentially, you are purchasing in reality nothing more than what used to be formally recognised as an unpapered dog

Don't be fooled by the reasons why "your" puppy on limited register is best for you, it isn't best for you at all. Your integrity is being challenged what you may do with the dog and the breeder doesn't trust your intentions for one. Secondly, the choice to show or breed is your choice to make.........it's your dog, your life.

You have done the right thing avoiding pet shops and BYB's to purchase a health tested pure breed dog. If you get the run around with restrictions and closed shop tactics to result in an unpapered dog, why not have a look at some rescue dogs instead which have the same restrictions as the limited register pure breed and are also in great need for a home

Im not sure you quite get what the pedigree system is all about.

Please enlighten me then Steve

[whippets]

I'd be thrilled to pieces if another kennel used one of my dogs on their bitches and they bred a "superstar" under their own prefix. I'd be proud as punch that one of my dogs sired (or was the dam of) top show winner.

You're a real sour puss arn't you? and a $hit stirer to boot.

[Wazzat Xolo]

I'd be thrilled to pieces if another kennel used one of my dogs on their bitches and they bred a "superstar" under their own prefix. I'd be proud as punch that one of my dogs sired (or was the dam of) top show winner.

You're a real sour puss arn't you? and a $hit stirer to boot.

Has the pooper scooper broken then ?

this is better than the Don Burke thread this is a Burk thread!

[whippets]

haha it did. I got a new one yesterday and the clip thing (where the scoopa attaches) broke.

[Black Bronson]

I'd be thrilled to pieces if another kennel used one of my dogs on their bitches and they bred a "superstar" under their own prefix. I'd be proud as punch that one of my dogs sired (or was the dam of) top show winner.

You're a real sour puss arn't you? and a $hit stirer to boot.

Exactly , so why sell a good dog on limited register???.

I am not $hit stirring at all, my point of view is that a good example of the breed should be sold on main register, and you are trying convince puppy buyers that selling on limited is better It's not better on limited for the puppy buyer at all, it only serves to restrict their potential opportunities when owning a good dog.

Edited May 18, 2010 by Black Bronson

[Miss B]

I'd be thrilled to pieces if another kennel used one of my dogs on their bitches and they bred a "superstar" under their own prefix. I'd be proud as punch that one of my dogs sired (or was the dam of) top show winner.

Exactly , so why sell a good dog on limited register???.

Because as the breeder, it is their prerogative to sell the dog on whichever register they choose!! Whether you like it or not.

[Black Bronson]

haha it did. I got a new one yesterday and the clip thing (where the scoopa attaches) broke.

Was your scoopa on limited register

[whippets]

I'd be thrilled to pieces if another kennel used one of my dogs on their bitches and they bred a "superstar" under their own prefix. I'd be proud as punch that one of my dogs sired (or was the dam of) top show winner.

You're a real sour puss arn't you? and a $hit stirer to boot.

Exactly , so why sell a good dog on limited register???.

I am not $hit stirring at all, my point of view is that a good example of the breed should be sold on main register, and you are trying convince puppy buyers that selling on limited is better It's not better on limited for the puppy buyer at all, it only serves to restrict their potential opportunities when owning a good dog.

I don't convince anyone of anything.

If I sell a pet on limited register it stays on limited register. Not every puppy buyer wants "opportunities". They just want a pet.....end of story.

You are obviously talking about your own experiences and considering you don't represent everyone else in the world you should just relate to "yourself".

[Black Bronson]

I'd be thrilled to pieces if another kennel used one of my dogs on their bitches and they bred a "superstar" under their own prefix. I'd be proud as punch that one of my dogs sired (or was the dam of) top show winner.

Exactly , so why sell a good dog on limited register???.

Because as the breeder, it is their prerogative to sell the dog on whichever register they choose!! Whether you like it or not.

Correct...........as is the prospective puppy buyers perogative to walk down the driveway to another "non restrictive" breeder. The more buyers who walk away from restrictive sales, the faster the breeders will have no option other than to re-address their sales policies and provide what the buyers rightly deserve.

[OSoSwift]

If the puppy is of good quality and sold on limited register, go elsewhere as the conditions IMO are "over the top" as essentially, you are purchasing in reality nothing more than what used to be formally recognised as an unpapered dog

What an absolute load of rubbish!

Limited register means you have a fully registered, tracable pedigree dog.

The dog bought without papers is a dog - not traceable or proven as anything.

You look at a puppy, you find out the conditions. If you like (and the breeder likes you) you buy the puppy. If you don't like the conditions you don't buy it. If the breeder doesn't like you - well seeya later.

DOGS ON LIMITED REGISTRY ARE NOT THE SAME AS AN UNPAPERED DOG!

[Black Bronson]

I'd be thrilled to pieces if another kennel used one of my dogs on their bitches and they bred a "superstar" under their own prefix. I'd be proud as punch that one of my dogs sired (or was the dam of) top show winner.

You're a real sour puss arn't you? and a $hit stirer to boot.

Exactly , so why sell a good dog on limited register???.

I am not $hit stirring at all, my point of view is that a good example of the breed should be sold on main register, and you are trying convince puppy buyers that selling on limited is better :D It's not better on limited for the puppy buyer at all, it only serves to restrict their potential opportunities when owning a good dog.

I don't convince anyone of anything.

If I sell a pet on limited register it stays on limited register. Not every puppy buyer wants "opportunities". They just want a pet.....end of story.

You are obviously talking about your own experiences and considering you don't represent everyone else in the world you should just relate to "yourself".

If a puppy buyer purchases for a pet with no interest in "opportunities" there is no threat selling on main anyway. It would make no difference to the breeder either way in those circumstances and could even be desexed.

[Black Bronson]

If the puppy is of good quality and sold on limited register, go elsewhere as the conditions IMO are "over the top" as essentially, you are purchasing in reality nothing more than what used to be formally recognised as an unpapered dog

What an absolute load of rubbish!

Limited register means you have a fully registered, tracable pedigree dog.

The dog bought without papers is a dog - not traceable or proven as anything.

You look at a puppy, you find out the conditions. If you like (and the breeder likes you) you buy the puppy. If you don't like the conditions you don't buy it. If the breeder doesn't like you - well seeya later.

DOGS ON LIMITED REGISTRY ARE NOT THE SAME AS AN UNPAPERED DOG!

It's exactly the same as the old unpapered dog in reality. The only difference is that limited register makes it more officially unusable, but the same restrictions apply

Edited May 18, 2010 by Black Bronson

[ellz]

If a puppy buyer purchases for a pet with no interest in "opportunities" there is no threat selling on main anyway. It would make no difference to the breeder either way in those circumstances and could even be desexed.

And what about the situation where you have perfectly valid reasons for not wanting your dog (and pedigree) to fall into the hands of another person? Or woe betide, a puppy farmer or oodle breeder? There are many documented cases where people have sold a dog in good faith not knowing that the person to whom they are selling is an agent for an exporter or an undesirable purchaser. Puppies sold on Main Register are a lot more marketable to the unscrupulous and any breeder selling puppies on Main Register can surely have no peace of mind that their puppies are in the right hands.

[Greytmate]

It's exactly the same as the old unpapered dog in reality. The only difference is that limited register makes it more officially unusable, but the same restrictions apply

Not true. The registration has no bearing on a dog's usability or even its suitability as a pet. Which is the purpose that most people buy dogs for.

[WreckitWhippet]

This thread is just going around in circles. I don't agree with 'over the top' conditions being placed on the sale of a puppy, but then everyone will have a different idea of where the line is drawn between 'over the top' and 'reasonable'. At the end of the day, if you don't agree with the conditions - you just have to go looking elsewhere to get what you are after.

My advice to puppy buyers is this: If the puppy is of good quality and sold on limited register, go elsewhere as the conditions IMO are "over the top" as essentially, you are purchasing in reality nothing more than what used to be formally recognised as an unpapered dog

Don't be fooled by the reasons why "your" puppy on limited register is best for you, it isn't best for you at all. Your integrity is being challenged what you may do with the dog and the breeder doesn't trust your intentions for one. Secondly, the choice to show or breed is your choice to make.........it's your dog, your life.

You have done the right thing avoiding pet shops and BYB's to purchase a health tested pure breed dog. If you get the run around with restrictions and closed shop tactics to result in an unpapered dog, why not have a look at some rescue dogs instead which have the same restrictions as the limited register pure breed and are also in great need for a home

I'm sorry but IMO that's terrible advice, it is far from being over the top just to have a dog on limited register. Most breeders FULLY explain what the registry means so there is no ripping off, or over the top demands going on.

YES it is YOUR choice if you want to breed or show, which is why you should buy a dog papered accordingly. If you want to show, buy on main register, if you just want a pet then go with limited.

These days a dog that comes with no papers at all is from a less than reputable breeder.

By providing limited register papers at least you know there is a good chance that breeder is a good one and registered with the ANKC.

The breeder isn't "challenging your integrity" they are covering their own @rse because I can tell you now, I can't count on my fingers and toes the amount of people who have lied to and screwed over their dogs breeder.

Shaar, I am referring to breeders who won't sell on main at all for the opportunity to buy an appropriately papered dog???.

I'm one of those breeders who put those going to pet homes on the limit register ( regardless of the show potential ) and sells/givesaway/co-own those on the main register to known and approved show homes.

Tell me why it is, that I should allow every Tom Dick and Harry that wants a main register dog, to have one ? My dogs come from some of the most successfull lines and kennels in the country, their immediate pedigrees contain multi BIS and BISS winners, the dogs themselves have their titles, their close relatives have proven time and again their worth in the ring and as breeding animals.

I don't have the right to take that and spread it around the countryside willy nilly , nor do I want to.

Those that have come before me, have worked bloody hard to put those dogs on the ground and I respect that. When they handed me the dogs, they made me a custodian of their lines and hard work.

Tom, Dick & Harry can't breed under your prefix ..........so what's it matter if their progeny has one of your dogs involved???. If the progeny is no good using your male and an inadequate bitch is not your fault. But is it more the use of your male with a better bitch and Tom, Dick or Harry's kennel earns some wins over yours that you are worried about???.

None the less, if T,D or H are producing better dogs than you..........that's good for the breed isn't it???.

Sell them on main, throw your hat in the ring like a true competitor............any one can keep winning with a shop closed to competition

:D the same old arguement pops up time and again. The breeder is afraid of competition and being beaten by their own if they part with them and in the majority of cases it couldn't be further from the truth.

[whippets]

yep it is so typical of people outside the breeding game to make assumptions based on their own perceptions.

BB once you have been breeding dogs for decades then you will understand why breeders do what they do. Going by all your posts I'll make an educated guess and say that you are quite inexperienced. Until you have gone through the blood sweat and tears of breeding dogs, instead of being on the outside and looking in, you will have no idea.

[LittlePoppet]

it isnt rocket science but re-explaining the whole LR and MR definitions obviously isnt gettin through

even though it is really very simple!

LR and un papered: as most hav sed are 2 different things.... on a LR i know and can prove my dogs pedigree...... no papers i can prove anything and would hav no idea where my dog came from... other than wat the breeder told me which may or may not be true.

im not a breeder but totally understand not putting all pups on the MR..... too many BYB's and you cant trust everyone in the world..... yes u sign a contract but does a piece of paper really cant stop u breeding.... will mean there are repercussions though.....

there is not need for a person who buys a puppy as a pet for them to be on the MR... if they express an interest in showing most breeders would discuss this option with them

my girl was updated from the LR to the MR for the purpose of showing only as i showed an interest and i hav absolutely no intention of breeding with her..... i bought her as a pet and obviously didnt expect her to come with MR papers.......

i realise not everyone has such accomodation breeders.....