Breeders' Conditions When Selling A Puppy

[Zug Zug]

I've been making some enquiries with a few breeders over the past few months, in the lead-up to possibly getting my next puppy next year. I also made a phone call to a breeder on behalf of a close friend today, because 12 months on from the death of her beloved dog she is now ready to look for another one.

It has been a long time since I've looked for a dog. My 2 are 11 and 12 years old. So I'm not sure if a lot has changed or if I just wasn't aware previously of how many conditions breeders are putting on people who want to purchase puppies from them.

So far, the list (albeit not all from the same breeder) includes:

- it needs to be desexed (fair enough)

- it cannot be desexed until it is an adult and the breeder wants the option to take it back if it is of show quality (if not, then you can desex it and keep it)

- it needs to be regularly vaccinated

- it is not allowed to be vaccinated for anything ever

- it needs to go to the breeder's vet, not yours

- it can never be taken to any vet but needs to be taken back to the breeder herself if anything is ever wrong with it (this one is an absolute deal-breaker for me I have to say - if my dog is sick it's going to my vet end of story - but I digress...)

- it needs to be fed on a raw diet only

- it needs to go to a groomer of the breeder's choice

- no kids

And that's all I can think of for now, but that's just what I can remember and the list goes on.

I expected some conditions to be placed on a puppy buyer, and I am a very responsible dog owner and happy to agree to things like keeping the dog fenced, safe, well cared for, return to breeder if we ever can't keep it etc. But some of the things in the list above make me think 'Who's dog will this be? Yours or mine?'

I'm wondering if this is normal practice now. What kinds of conditions do people think are fair and reasonable? And how much is too much?

[Teebs]

god, i would walk away

once i have handed over the money, the dog is mine. While I will do everything right by the dog, i do not want the breeder looking at every little thing i do

and to take the dog back if it is show quality? WTF? Hell no!

[Gayle.]

Only one of my dogs had a condition placed on him and that was Benson.....that he be desexed as soon as possible. He was sold on limited register so that was fair enough and we had him desexed by 4 1/2 months of age.

That is fairly common, I expect.

But the rest.......damn, no wonder people go elsewhere for puppies!

[Darkrai]

yeah its amazing how many conditions someppl put on buyers...

But something like that i would walk away from!!!

[Zug Zug]

Yeah it was a bit like that. I've been spending some time convincing this friend of mine to buy from a registered breeder. I'd convinced her but I think she might have become un-convinced after today's experience with one breeder.

[Darkrai]

what breed are they after?

[WreckitWhippet]

As a breeder, if the buyer doesn't like my terms and conditions, tuff luck, they can find another breeder.

As breeders we are expected to guarantee everything under the sun and when poo hits the fan it's naturally all the breeders fault. If you want me to guarantee a pup, you can raise it how I expect it to be raised, especially when it comes to things like vaccination and desexing.

[Zug Zug]

I don't really want to say which breed because people might start trying to guess who we're talking about and I don't want it to become a personal thing.

SBT123 I guess that's what it boils down to - finding another breeder. In this case there was no request for a guarantee for the puppy or whatever, to be honest the conversation didn't go that far.

But as I said for myself I'm comfortable with some conditions, but there are some things I just think are the owner's decision (and responsibility) not the breeder's.

For example, I would be very reluctant to go with a breeder who wanted to prevent me from vaccinating my dog. I had never heard of this before and I was a bit taken aback. Objected to heartworm protection too. I just think those things are important.

I'd be really interested to hear what kinds of conditions would you consider to be normal practice? If I have some understanding of that, perhaps I'll be less surprised in future and I can think through what I am happy with and what I am not happy with.

[Diva]

Strong views on diet or vaccination I can kind of understand, but the condition about the breeder taking the puppy back if it turns out to be show quality is disgusting to me.

[huski]

I don't agree with yearly vaccination but it's dangerous not to vaccinate EVER - Dr Jean Dodds recommends people vaccinate when the dog is a pup, and then once again a year later. Who on earth wouldn't vaccinate AT ALL?? I would be walking away for sure!

And the breeder can take the dog back if they decide it's show quality - bugger off! As a pet buyer I would NEVER agree to that.

Edited May 15, 2010 by huski

[Sandra777]

In this case there was no request for a guarantee for the puppy or whatever, to be honest the conversation didn't go that far.

Thing being the law makes it the breeder's fault - the breeder doesn't have to offer a guarantee of any sort for it still to be their fault in law.

Can take the dog back if it's show quality -

[indigirl]

I can fully understand breeder's putting conditions on dogs which are in the interests of ensuring their welfare (such as desexing) and also diet and exercise. If a dog is bought on breeder's terms then I would expect more conditions. But to say the breeder can take the dog back if it grows into a show worthy animal??? I think NOT!

Im sure you could find a more reasonable breeder to deal with! Keep looking

[Zug Zug]

As I said, the deal-breaker for me was the idea of not being allowed to take the dog to a vet - any vet. For anything. That's just not going to happen.

But there are several on that list that would make me walk away. And some I would take in my stride very happily.

For example, in my case I think:

desex the dog - yep no problems always have

vaccinate the dog - yep but probably a bit less often than we all used to do it but I want my dog well protected

raw diet - I don't know would need to think about that one

breeder's vet - nope I like my vet

breeder's groomer - nope I like to do it myself

But everyone is different aren't they? My responses and issues will be different to the next person's.

[Zug Zug]

Oops - double post sorry.

Edited May 15, 2010 by Zug Zug

[Lucy's mama]

I spoke to a breeder who had the raw feeding and no vaccinations conditions. She did add though that she knew she couldn't legally enforce those conditions.

She was using herbal remedies of some sort for vaccines and felt they were effective and safer than proper vaccines.

I don't mind conditions if I agree that doing whatever they are asking is best for the pup. If I didn't agree, I'd look elsewhere rather than make promises I had no intention to keep.

[Mystiqview]

OMG. Some of those conditions are absurd!

My conditions are rather simple:

If bought as a pet (99% of mine are). They must be desexed prior to 12 months of age. They are sold on Limit Reg. Show quality: well normally people do not pay for a dog if I want it out there as a potential for a litter back. After litter - your dog. I prefer to sell to pet than show anyway.

Proper health care must be undertaken. No different to what I do myself. If you have a vet, then use it.

As for yearly vaccinations; There is much debate on the issue. If you attend a dog club, Then most will want yearly vaccinations. To what level/frequency you vaccinate (C4, C5 or higher) it is your choice.

Groomer: Your choice. I will advise on what typical grooming the breed needs. Whether you do it yourself or pay someone. It's YOUR money!

If there is something wrong (genetically): I would LIKE to know to I don't necessarily breed it again. If the dog had an injury/accident that is (your) fault, Would like to know and will offer support/guidance where appropriate.

Diet: I will advise what pups were on here. I will offer suggestions, but at the end of the day - your choice what you feed.

If you cannot keep the dog, I would like to be informed. If I can assist in rehoming etc, then will help where necessary. Will accept dogs back where possible.

[lappiemum]

Personally, I would find a number of those to be unacceptable.

Sorry your friend is having problems with finding a breeder - all I can say is that she should keep looking, when you find the 'right' breeder its really worth the effort!

[Zug Zug]

Mystiqview I think that list is very reasonable and there is nothing there that I would be concerned about. Actually I think I would take it as a sign that you are doing the right thing for your dogs - something I am looking for and wanting to find in a breeder.

For myself, I'm still looking - plenty of time.

For my friend - well I hope she hangs in there. One of the worst things that was said to her today was that her (very much loved) dog died at 11 years old because she had been vaccinating him. I am angry about that actually. What kind of person says something like that to someone who has just told them how brokenhearted they were when their dog died a year ago due to a brain tumour!!!???

Luckily this friend of mine is made of tough stuff. She knows she took excellent care of her dog and his death was not her fault.

[Danois]

I respect a breeder's views on diet and desexing as they are the ones who know their lines inside and out and know what works and what does not. But ultimately with diet - I will feed what I am happy works best for the dog as an individual but would consult with the breeder (as I have done previously).

As for things like vet treatment, grooming, vaccination etc - these are a matter for me and the decisions I make are based on my research and own beliefs.

Personally I think I would struggle to bond with a dog that I essentially had no say over the care, maintenance and upkeep of.

Many of those conditions suggested would be unenforceable - the law regards a dog as a good - just like a TV, washing machine or a bike. Once you have paid for it then (unless it is in joint names with the breeder) then it is your dog to do what you please with.

SBT123 does raise an interesting point though - there is a trend for some puppy buyers to want to hold the breeder responsible for everything that goes wrong. To use the same analogy above - you would not expect to hold a bike shop responsible if your bike was damaged after you left it in the rain, pushed it over or did not oil parts...

[Greytmate]

That person isn't selling pets.

They are needing a foster carer to hold the dog for them at their own expense until the dog is fully developed. Then they can decide whether it is good enough to breed from. In the mean time, by using their own vet and their groomer, they know the dog will be well cared for and they will have access to the dog's full history, should they take it back.

They might need to sell pups this way, because they have more dogs than the council will allow, and by placing it in a pet home, they know the dog will be better looked after than it could be in a boarding kennel. It also makes dog breeding more affordable, maybe even profitable.

Having this arrangement might mean that a breeder is able to keep their line going strong, instead of it dying out. A good thing for some breeds.

Would I buy a pet with this arrangement?

Maybe, if I was prepared to maybe say good bye to it in two years time.

But I would only do it on condition that the breeder is paying me $55 a week.