Thuggies Doggies

[WreckitWhippet]

Quite frankly the APBT is a lost cause, BSL as it currently stands is not going to be overturned, pollies don't care, it's not a major issue for them now they have the laws in place and the majority of the general public still feel safer, thinking the dreaded Pit Bull is off the streets.

It's time for those who have been clinging to the false hope and the empty promises, that BSL is about to end, to have a good hard look at just how little has been achieved in terms of over turning BSL in the last few years. All that has happened is additional States have come on board and the laws pertaining to dog ownership have been increased.

Call me an ANKC snob or whatever other insults the so called anti-BSL brigade want to chuck about but the fact is, the Pit Bull ship sunk years ago and it's a wreck on the bottom of the ocean. The reality is, by sticking together (standing alongside the Pit Bull ), the ANKC breeds are going to end up in the same place, because the Pit Bull apologists can't see the wood for the trees and it's the same old , same old recycled catch cries over and again.

I won't apologise for wanting to look after the ANKC pedigree dogs in this country.

[geo]

Quite frankly the APBT is a lost cause, BSL as it currently stands is not going to be overturned, pollies don't care, it's not a major issue for them now they have the laws in place and the majority of the general public still feel safer, thinking the dreaded Pit Bull is off the streets.

It's time for those who have been clinging to the false hope and the empty promises, that BSL is about to end, to have a good hard look at just how little has been achieved in terms of over turning BSL in the last few years. All that has happened is additional States have come on board and the laws pertaining to dog ownership have been increased.

Call me an ANKC snob or whatever other insults the so called anti-BSL brigade want to chuck about but the fact is, the Pit Bull ship sunk years ago and it's a wreck on the bottom of the ocean. The reality is, by sticking together (standing alongside the Pit Bull ), the ANKC breeds are going to end up in the same place, because the Pit Bull apologists can't see the wood for the trees and it's the same old , same old recycled catch cries over and again.

I won't apologise for wanting to look after the ANKC pedigree dogs in this country.

Wont you want support when they come after staffies? Like i said it's bigger than the pitbull. Wouldn't you rather have legal controlled pitbulls instead of thousands of 'staffie crosses'.

[WreckitWhippet]

Quite frankly the APBT is a lost cause, BSL as it currently stands is not going to be overturned, pollies don't care, it's not a major issue for them now they have the laws in place and the majority of the general public still feel safer, thinking the dreaded Pit Bull is off the streets.

It's time for those who have been clinging to the false hope and the empty promises, that BSL is about to end, to have a good hard look at just how little has been achieved in terms of over turning BSL in the last few years. All that has happened is additional States have come on board and the laws pertaining to dog ownership have been increased.

Call me an ANKC snob or whatever other insults the so called anti-BSL brigade want to chuck about but the fact is, the Pit Bull ship sunk years ago and it's a wreck on the bottom of the ocean. The reality is, by sticking together (standing alongside the Pit Bull ), the ANKC breeds are going to end up in the same place, because the Pit Bull apologists can't see the wood for the trees and it's the same old , same old recycled catch cries over and again.

I won't apologise for wanting to look after the ANKC pedigree dogs in this country.

Wont you want support when they come after staffies? Like i said it's bigger than the pitbull. Wouldn't you rather have legal controlled pitbulls instead of thousands of 'staffie crosses'.

Another example of why the Pit Bull fight is going no where fast.

[geo]

Wont you want support when they come after staffies? Like i said it's bigger than the pitbull. Wouldn't you rather have legal controlled pitbulls instead of thousands of 'staffie crosses'.

Another example of why the Pit Bull fight is going no where fast.

So i take it, if there was a slight chance of any breed being placed on the BSL list you would steer clear of it? do you stop supporting your favourite sport teams when they're losing? change your political party because of popular opinion..?

It's not a just pitbull fight is a BSL fight.

[RottnBullies]

I'd rather be In a sinking Pit Bull ship than have given up on my chosen breed because the going got tuff,

the APBT NEVER gives up

Thank DOG most haven't given up the fight as some clearly have

Oh and I would think one bull breed to another Is "Family" But then again some get to pick and choose their family's too!

[tybrax]

I'd rather be In a sinking Pit Bull ship than have given up on my chosen breed because the going got tuff,

the APBT NEVER gives up

Thank DOG most haven't given up the fight as some clearly have

Oh and I would think one bull breed to another Is "Family" But then again some get to pick and choose their family's too!

Give me the sinking ship anyday. The ship has not sunk yet by the way

[WreckitWhippet]

Wont you want support when they come after staffies? Like i said it's bigger than the pitbull. Wouldn't you rather have legal controlled pitbulls instead of thousands of 'staffie crosses'.

Another example of why the Pit Bull fight is going no where fast.

So i take it, if there was a slight chance of any breed being placed on the BSL list you would steer clear of it? do you stop supporting your favourite sport teams when they're losing? change your political party because of popular opinion..?

It's not a just pitbull fight is a BSL fight.

I fully support the ANKC breeders of the American Staffordshire Terrier, the exhibitors and the pet owners of the ANKC pedigree dogs. I also fully support the CCCQ's current stance and the degree to which they want to seperate themselves from the Pit Bull and any attempts they make to secure the future of the pedigree Amstaff.

The fact is the Pit Bull is on the list, it has a bad rap with the pollies the majority of the general public and why anyone would want to associate themselves with that and think that is the best way of avoiding their breed becoming restricted is beyond me.

Clearly Dogs NSW and the CCCQ have adopted the strategy of distancing themselves, it worked for the NSW pedigree animals and I hope to Dog that the CCCQ can secure the future of the pedigree American Staffordshire Terrier in QLD.

[ima barka]

In a threatening situation involving ''family''

Secure your position, save your own first.

Anyone have a problem with that?

Don't mention the the UKC either, it was raised as pit bull registry because the AKC, with good reason, wouldn't buckle & give the pit bull pure breed status.

Chauncy Bennett wanted a fancy pedigree paper for his dog so he started his own registery. & a profitable BIG business it is and all. That doesn't mean Bennets Ring wasn't a ''pure breed''. Probably was. But rather the breed as a whole, has so many different variationa it didn't qualify as a legitimate PURE breed. Still doesn't.

& the rest of the so called registries are only self interested clubs, so don't bother spinning them out either.

ima, the BSL picture is bigger than that of just the pitbull, this is what i'm trying to get across.

You can argue that it's not a pure breed, but then you'd be saying that amstaffs are also not a pure breed..? I was of the understanding that many many years of registered bloodlines, papered pedigrees would make them a pure breed. (hey i could be wrong). What on earth do you think they are if they're not purebred? you think that millions of dogs that look the same is just a coincidence? Oh the AKC wouldn't buckle but they'll open the stud books to them!!!

Anyway i really don't care that your think they're not purbred, it's really not the issue on this part of the forum, and it doesn't bother me one little bit if i had a mongrel cross or a purebred. I'd just like to get everyone against BSL.

Misquoted yet again. Talk about your so called ''standard'' if you wish to chastise me. That is where I say your ''pure breed'' argument falls apart. That & the b.s. the P.B. people like to spin about its heritage of course.

Fairy tales wont help your cause. Neither will I until my recognised, registered pure breeds business is successfully concluded. We are struggling to fend off the crap you have dumped on us you see.

You do what need to do. No problem.

As long as it doesn't infinge on the safety or reputation of registered pure breeds, go for it.

You could begin by calling them APBTs in public & registering them as such, rather than ASTs or x staffies for a start. That would be good. That would at least be honest. That would be a change for the better.

While you're here tho, can you tell me why so many pictures of the APBT show them in aggresive postures?

& what's with the pics of dogs in open paddocks secured to huge bollards by massive chains?

Surely not a good look for the promotion of a family friendly, companion dog?

That was the preferred image pre B.S.L. but isn't it time to put that cue in the rack.

Also, how many APBT owners here now fully comply with the laws required for the keeping of the breed?

Hands up.

Any?

[geo]

I fully support the ANKC breeders of the American Staffordshire Terrier, the exhibitors and the pet owners of the ANKC pedigree dogs. I also fully support the CCCQ's current stance and the degree to which they want to seperate themselves from the Pit Bull and any attempts they make to secure the future of the pedigree Amstaff.

The fact is the Pit Bull is on the list, it has a bad rap with the pollies the majority of the general public and why anyone would want to associate themselves with that and think that is the best way of avoiding their breed becoming restricted is beyond me.

Clearly Dogs NSW and the CCCQ have adopted the strategy of distancing themselves, it worked for the NSW pedigree animals and I hope to Dog that the CCCQ can secure the future of the pedigree American Staffordshire Terrier in QLD.

You mean your edging your bets 'cause you want to take the easy way out. If any one has the chance to change peoples minds and help dog ownership in this country you'd think it would be the so called professionals that proclaim their love for all dogs, ie AKNC, RSPCA..

The CCCQ, RSPCA want to distance themselves because of handouts from the government.. governments want to distance themselves because of public liability and their complete lack of control when it comes to animal management and licensed ownership, hell they still let pet stores sell puppies which the UK banned years ago for the welfare of animals!

if you've missed all the media hype lately about the SBT, i'll let you know that they're fast becoming the media target for any dog attacks, i think the last 4 reported on TV were staffies, even though they get it wrong it is now your dogs they are targeting, they don't care about pedigree or the AKNC or facts, as it sure as hell ain't going to stop a dog biting someone.. "oh no he doesn't bite he's a pure bred, registered with the AKNC don't you know..".

[ima barka]

ima barka, why take that aproach? how about you work with the APBT owners who want to make a difference.

personally the amstaff was doomed here before the incidents of the last three months were even dreamed up.

just look at the trading post and the paper ads advertising them.

just remember Colbys "primo" was an APBT and so were the other five dogs used to develop the standard.

so in your form of thinking we can say the amstaff is a breed started by mutts.

which would make them mutts.

now you are the one who can argue till your blue in the face.

I do need to answer this.

If you read my posts & comprehend them you will see that I don't deny APBTs are ''pure breeds'' but what I have said is they are not recognised pure breeds because they don't have a bona fide standard.

There are so many different versions of the same dog they cant possibly meet the criterior for inclusion onto a internationally accredited pure breed register.

One of many criterium for a breed to be declared as ''pure'' requires the breeding to a set type, without variation, for five consectutive generations.

There are plenty of APBTs that would answer that criterior. But they are all different to each other. Which is the kicker.

Amstaffs & APBT are the same breed. Only difference is the APBT, renamed as the Am Staff has answered all the criterium & been admitted to the register.

The APBT people say they don't care, but in reality they would give their left bicycle wheel to be on it.

Their right bicycle wheel to be able to show off their breed to the world at Westminister or Crufts & their children to win Best In Terrier Group at either or.

Edit to answer the above.

The ANKC is a pure breed register & has no need to distance itself from the APBT because it doesn't fall under the registered pure breed banner. ANKC members are in fact urging their state affiliates to distance themselves from the RSPCA.

The Staffordshire Bull Terrier has been under the pump ever since the BSL was enacted due to sudden upsurge in staffy x's. Or, as they are in the real world, PBs in staffy clothing. You might wonder why the bull breeds don't want be assocciated with you? Because of your dishonesty toward their breeds, the disregard for the heritage of those breeds & the trust of the public that has been hard won over many, many years. The real fear is your deception will eventually pull innocent breeds down into the morass you created.

Edited May 19, 2010 by ima barka

[geo]

One of many criterium for a breed to be declared as ''pure'' requires the breeding to a set type, without variation, for five consectutive generations.

There are plenty of APBTs that would answer that criterior. But they are all different to each other. Which is the kicker.

Amstaffs & APBT are the same breed. Only difference is the Am Staff has answered all the criterium & been admitted to the register.

The APBT people say they don't care, but in reality they would give their left bicycle wheel to be on it.

Their right bicycle wheel to be able to show off their breed to the world at Westminister or Crufts & their children to win Best In Terrier Group at either or.

Thanks ima i appreciate your post, i think had there not been that surge to go bigger ie the american bully we may have seen them in a registry.

But i also feel all the registries so desperatey want to stay away from the tarnished pitbull, they don't want to lose members because there's a pitbull in the ranks.. the pitbulls history is exactly why the AKC named them the Amstaff, so they woudn't be linked to the 'fighting dog', (along with the standard but i'll get to that) and thats why many registries wont have them, it's not because they can't prove there size etc..

i've read a few pitbull standards and they're all pretty much the same, and most reputable breeders try to achive that, all the monster short wide dogs wouldn't get a look in, I know the UKC has a few but that is selective breeding at its worst, the UKC also has some great dogs.

I've seen 40+kg registered pure bred amstaffs, along side 15" tall 15kg amstaffs, now tell me it has something to do with all being different to each other and not the fact that the people running these clubs don't want them.

i think any club president who wanted pitbulls in their register would be ousted pretty quick.

[APBT]

...

Edited May 19, 2010 by APBT

[APBT]

In a threatening situation involving ''family''

Secure your position, save your own first.

Anyone have a problem with that?

Don't mention the the UKC either, it was raised as pit bull registry because the AKC, with good reason, wouldn't buckle & give the pit bull pure breed status.

Chauncy Bennett wanted a fancy pedigree paper for his dog so he started his own registery. & a profitable BIG business it is and all. That doesn't mean Bennets Ring wasn't a ''pure breed''. Probably was. But rather the breed as a whole, has so many different variationa it didn't qualify as a legitimate PURE breed. Still doesn't.

& the rest of the so called registries are only self interested clubs, so don't bother spinning them out either.

ima, the BSL picture is bigger than that of just the pitbull, this is what i'm trying to get across.

You can argue that it's not a pure breed, but then you'd be saying that amstaffs are also not a pure breed..? I was of the understanding that many many years of registered bloodlines, papered pedigrees would make them a pure breed. (hey i could be wrong). What on earth do you think they are if they're not purebred? you think that millions of dogs that look the same is just a coincidence? Oh the AKC wouldn't buckle but they'll open the stud books to them!!!

Anyway i really don't care that your think they're not purbred, it's really not the issue on this part of the forum, and it doesn't bother me one little bit if i had a mongrel cross or a purebred. I'd just like to get everyone against BSL.

Misquoted yet again. Talk about your so called ''standard'' if you wish to chastise me. That is where I say your ''pure breed'' argument falls apart. That & the b.s. the P.B. people like to spin about its heritage of course.

Fairy tales wont help your cause. Neither will I until my recognised, registered pure breeds business is successfully concluded. We are struggling to fend off the crap you have dumped on us you see.

You do what need to do. No problem.

As long as it doesn't infinge on the safety or reputation of registered pure breeds, go for it.

You could begin by calling them APBTs in public & registering them as such, rather than ASTs or x staffies for a start. That would be good. That would at least be honest. That would be a change for the better.

While you're here tho, can you tell me why so many pictures of the APBT show them in aggresive postures?

& what's with the pics of dogs in open paddocks secured to huge bollards by massive chains?

Surely not a good look for the promotion of a family friendly, companion dog?

That was the preferred image pre B.S.L. but isn't it time to put that cue in the rack.

Also, how many APBT owners here now fully comply with the laws required for the keeping of the breed?

Hands up.

Any?

WOW, now hold up. Fairy tails, spinning heritage? Honestly who do you think you are talking like this.

You talk about you business not being successful and you come on here and blame it on the APBT. You need to be spending more time on the books then whinging on the internet.

And you see dogs in paddocks with chains, Anyone who knows anything about an APBT would know how to contain these dogs properly, and Tethering is quite popular among people in the U.S. Hence you saw these pictures on Google because i guarantee you have never been within 5 meters of a real bulldog let alone an APBT.

Give up were here to stay.

[tybrax]

My hand is up l refused to follow a fraudulent law.

http://www.victimsofbsl.com/tyra.htm

The 22 point checklist truth.

http://www.victimsofbsl.com/22pointstruth.htm

Edited May 19, 2010 by tybrax

[geo]

Edit to answer the above.

The ANKC is a pure breed register & has no need to distance itself from the APBT because it doesn't fall under the registered pure breed banner. ANKC members are in fact urging their state affiliates to distance themselves from the RSPCA.

The Staffordshire Bull Terrier has been under the pump ever since the BSL was enacted due to sudden upsurge in staffy x's. Or, as they are in the real world, PBs in staffy clothing. You might wonder why the bull breeds don't want be assocciated with you? Because of your dishonesty toward their breeds, the disregard for the heritage of those breeds & the trust of the public that has been hard won over many, many years. The real fear is your deception will eventually pull innocent breeds down into the morass you created.

What do you mean 'you', i've haven't done anything wrong against 'their breeds'.. most apbt owners love their heritage.. we haven't created anything, the media created a monster, thugs embraced it, they mistreated the dogs, dogs have attacked, they got the news coverage and so on and so on...

You're abandoning dogs, you think you're better? like i said thugs will embrace whatever they feel is macho, they will not read up on the amstaffs, they will get hold of them and call them pitbulls, they will not look after them properly, they will put them in the spotlight in a bad way...

not us responsible owners.

[ima barka]

One of many criterium for a breed to be declared as ''pure'' requires the breeding to a set type, without variation, for five consectutive generations.

There are plenty of APBTs that would answer that criterior. But they are all different to each other. Which is the kicker.

Amstaffs & APBT are the same breed. Only difference is the Am Staff has answered all the criterium & been admitted to the register.

The APBT people say they don't care, but in reality they would give their left bicycle wheel to be on it.

Their right bicycle wheel to be able to show off their breed to the world at Westminister or Crufts & their children to win Best In Terrier Group at either or.

Thanks ima i appreciate your post, i think had there not been that surge to go bigger ie the american bully we may have seen them in a registry.

But i also feel all the registries so desperatey want to stay away from the tarnished pitbull, they don't want to lose members because there's a pitbull in the ranks.. the pitbulls history is exactly why the AKC named them the Amstaff, so they woudn't be linked to the 'fighting dog', (along with the standard but i'll get to that) and thats why many registries wont have them, it's not because they can't prove there size etc..

i've read a few pitbull standards and they're all pretty much the same, and most reputable breeders try to achive that, all the monster short wide dogs wouldn't get a look in, I know the UKC has a few but that is selective breeding at its worst, the UKC also has some great dogs.

I've seen 40+kg registered pure bred amstaffs, along side 15" tall 15kg amstaffs, now tell me it has something to do with all being different to each other and not the fact that the people running these clubs don't want them.

i think any club president who wanted pitbulls in their register would be ousted pretty quick.

Maybe. But I don't completely agree. It's just my (educated) opinion, but I consider the lack of uniformity in a breed conformation for the APBT was the main reason for its rejection as a pure breed by the AKC. If you can't make it onto your country of origins register it's all over for the rest of the world.

The American Bully is simply the renaming of one of strains previous regarded as the APBT. & probably only by one or two ''clubs'' anyhow.

There any plenty of ''fighting breeds'' listed on affilated pure breed registeries. The Akita & Chow Chow for instance. The common denominator being they breed to type. No matter where you are on the planet, they a recognisable. Even the Boston terrier had a turn in the pits.

The APBT & SBT had the same beginnings.

Some of the Ancestors of the SBT went to the USA while the rest stayed home.

The ancestors of the SBT were still being used in the pits as late as the 1930s even tho ''Bloodsports'' were outlawed in 1835. So the ''staffies'' fighting history is really relatively modern history.

The advantage the staffy had over the pitbull was it was still pretty much confined to it's area of origin, just three counties in the Black Country & so was less likely to be polluted by other breeds & remained '' typey'' (pure)

No so the pit bull. Where ever they ended up was where they evolved & tho they didn't all evovle the same they were still called pit bulls. Nothing has changed..

You only need to stroll along the beachfront at Venice Calif to see the different pit bulls the ''homies'' have in tow.

Everyone different, everyone a pit bull .

Those who think the ANKC folk have just abandoned all non registered dogs should put themselves in our shoes. Especially those of the AST & the SBT people.

When the BSL hit the most constructive/destructive thing to occur, depending on your p.o.v was the APBT people simply renamed their dogs. Am Staffs or Staffy crosses. Now we are copping the crap.

Do people really think the staffy rocketing up the bite stats chart is because the registered pure bred staffy has suddenly cut loose & gone feral? There are imposters about. & they want our help while they flush our breeds down the toilet.

While the APBT is now the victim of its previously cultivated reputation, we are now actually victims of the APBT, & we are even more vunerable because we have no one to hide behind.

Our fight is real. Our fight is all we can handle for the moment.

When it's done & won, we can turn our attention to what ever else needs doing.

Until then, wish US luck.

Edited May 19, 2010 by ima barka

[geo]

Those who think the ANKC folk have just abandoned all non registered dogs should put themselves in our shoes. Especially those of the AST & the SBT people.

When the BSL hit the most constructive/destructive thing to occur, depending on your p.o.v was the APBT people simply renamed their dogs. Am Staffs or Staffy crosses. Now we are copping the crap.

Do people really think the staffy rocketing up the bite stats chart is because the registered pure bred staffy has suddenly cut loose & gone feral? There are imposters about. & they want our help while they flush our breeds down the toilet.

While the APBT is now the victim of its previously cultivated reputation, we are now actually victims of the APBT, & we are even more vunerable because we have no one to hide behind.

Our fight is real. Our fight is all we can handle for the moment.

When it's done & won, we can turn our attention to what ever else needs doing.

Until then, wish US luck.

Firstly the chow, akita etc.. never had half the media coverage or are they that well know to the general public, you mention pitbull and they think they know.

As for the renaming; many people state they are the same, so some owners probably thought 'hey i could give up my pet to somebody totally useless in breed id re:22 point checklist.' or i could call them a staffy cross. I don't condone this, but as stated by SBT and yourself you want to look after your own first.

The apbt owners were on their own, sure some gave up thier dogs (all of a sudden thought they owned a killer dog), why as a dog owner i'll never know, i'd rather of relocated, or sent my dog elsewhere.

You are not the victims of the APBT, and you stated yourself you "had no-one to hide behind" let them take the rap, you're victims of your ignorance by not fighting this when it happened and leaving the apbt out to dry,

This is not intended for the good folk (zayda) who've put up a fight for both sides.

[ima barka]

WOW, now hold up. Fairy tails, spinning heritage? Honestly who do you think you are talking like this.

You talk about you business not being successful and you come on here and blame it on the APBT. You need to be spending more time on the books then whinging on the internet.

And you see dogs in paddocks with chains, Anyone who knows anything about an APBT would know how to contain these dogs properly, and Tethering is quite popular among people in the U.S. Hence you saw these pictures on Google because i guarantee you have never been within 5 meters of a real bulldog let alone an APBT.

Give up were here to stay.

Gee whiz, to think I didn't know the best way to restrain a loving family companion was to tether it to a massive bollard with a huge chain in the middle of an open paddock. What a silly sausage. How could I have missed one.

However, that apart, on the contrary, I am in close proximity to REAL bulldogs, British Bulldogs, not the x pitty kind, & REAL APBTs ever time I attend a dog show. Real REAL ones.

Is it the same knuckle draggers responsible for the ''reputation'' of your breed that are now responsible for the obnxious masquarading of the APBT as Amstaffs & x Staffords? They are very naughty aren't they? & plentiful it would seem. They must be everywhere.

Your words certainly have a Brothers Grimm ring to them tho. Do you have a publisher?

Fact is - Without the APBT there would be no BSL.

The dog was sought for its reputation, it fulfilled its reputation & now it is paying for its actions. Boofheads or not.

If they can ever get them from down the back of the bus where they are pushing others forward that is.

You're here to stay? Good, I hope you are. I honestly mean that.

I just wish you had a better strategy than smoke & mirrors tho.

Couldn't you disguise yourselves as something other than the bona fide, registered, pure breed, world renowned, much loved, peoples dog?

You lot are causing us serious grief.

Edited May 19, 2010 by ima barka

[geo]

Couldn't you disguise yourselves as something other than the bona fide, registered, pure breed, world renowned, much loved, peoples dog?

You lot are causing us serious grief.

You forget they were the peoples dog, funny how quickly you want to forget the ancestory of your breed.

[dogbesotted]

forget the myths and the misinforamtion. just go to diane jessups site

http://www.workingpitbull.com/

the lady knows what she is talking about.

H

as i have lived with an APBT am i a thuggie too????????